Is the Mercedes Panorama roof on the ML430 really that bad?
10-14-07, 11:15 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
the Mercedes ML has specifically been the worst-scorer of all industry reliability tests since its debut (now it's been joined by the Infinity QX 
)
JD Power, Consumer Reports, just word of mouth, I had a family friend who leased a ML...and they came to the conclusion specifically because of the ML that Mercs just aren't made the same anymore..
) JD Power, Consumer Reports, just word of mouth, I had a family friend who leased a ML...and they came to the conclusion specifically because of the ML that Mercs just aren't made the same anymore..
10-15-07, 12:59 AM
#32
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I'm trying to figure out what exactly these problems are that are being mentioned because the electronics have been the same forever as far as connectors, wires, switches, etc.....
The engine is the same engine in my CLK430 and it has been one of the strongest and most reliable engines I have owned. If you look at the buttons and switches in the ML and the CLK they are the same so most of the electronics have to be vastly similar. Germans are known for bad electronics.... not mercedes..... ALL germans.
Any Mercedes is hit or miss. In every class and division you either get a good one, or you get one you'll hate for life. That's why I wanted to know what the fatal flaw in the ML was so I could decide if it was just simple electronic gremlins which I can fix or if there is a larger issue like the transfer case falling out of them.
Most of the ML's I have seen I have hated, but this one is really slick in person so it drew me in.
The engine is the same engine in my CLK430 and it has been one of the strongest and most reliable engines I have owned. If you look at the buttons and switches in the ML and the CLK they are the same so most of the electronics have to be vastly similar. Germans are known for bad electronics.... not mercedes..... ALL germans.
Any Mercedes is hit or miss. In every class and division you either get a good one, or you get one you'll hate for life. That's why I wanted to know what the fatal flaw in the ML was so I could decide if it was just simple electronic gremlins which I can fix or if there is a larger issue like the transfer case falling out of them.
Most of the ML's I have seen I have hated, but this one is really slick in person so it drew me in.
10-15-07, 01:55 AM
#33
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OK I have read around and as I suspected it is mostly electronics. I expect this with anything german. Most people reported failure in switches and such relating to comfort features..... my specialty The complaints seem to be coming from people who take their car to the dealer and wait three days for a brake switch to be replaced and leave with a $350 repair bill.
When I first got my CLK the brake switch was bad. This is possibly the most common failure on any mercedes. I unhooked the switch and cleaned the contacts then stuck it back in there........ this was a year ago. Nothing since has gone wrong and the switch works great. There were 28 complaints about switch failure and the average cost for a trip to the dealer was $350. Who are these people? It's just a $14 switch!
* For this reason alone I wanted to get to the heart of the reviews and see the problems. Mercedes owners are lucky to figure out how to put gas in their cars, much less tackle replacing a brake master switch or god forbid REPAIRING one. This makes a lot of the complaints useless to me.
There seems to have been an issue with the power steering pump brackets on this model. Having owned multiple Lexus Sc400's..... power steering pump failures mean nothing to me...... Half hour with the air tools and keep going.
There seems to have been another series of reports with the fuel pumps. Why I do not know. They are the same pumps and system as on the CLK430 and no one with a CLK has ever reported a terminal problem with the pumps. Fortunately it is not that hard to get to. I could do it in an hour.
Don't let me lead you into thinking I am snubbing my nose at the problems, I see them and take heed. I am simply trying to find out if the problems are people who couldn't assemble a charcoal grill complaining about things that most common people should be able to DIY. This does seem to support about 70-75% of the complaints for electrical issues with switches that are fairly easy to replace and most can be repaired by cleaning the contacts.
I NEVER saw one complaint about the engine out of 300 "thumbs down" reviews I read. I only saw 2 transmission complaints out of the 300 "thumbs down" reviews. In short, the vehicle seems to have all the expected german electrical gremlins, and all the expected whiners owning it that paid $50,000 for it and are pissed the window switch failed. (not that I wouldn't be if I paid 50 grand for it).
I have not found any critical failures and as expected the engine and tranny seem to be bulletproof. Most of the complaints are electrical and that has never been an issue for me being an EE.
I know this sounds like I am favoring the vehicle, but I am really just reading deeper into the complaints and seeing if any truly apply to me. I have not made any consideration either way for or against it.
The complaints seem to be coming from people who take their car to the dealer and wait three days for a brake switch to be replaced and leave with a $350 repair bill. When I first got my CLK the brake switch was bad. This is possibly the most common failure on any mercedes. I unhooked the switch and cleaned the contacts then stuck it back in there........ this was a year ago. Nothing since has gone wrong and the switch works great. There were 28 complaints about switch failure and the average cost for a trip to the dealer was $350. Who are these people? It's just a $14 switch!
* For this reason alone I wanted to get to the heart of the reviews and see the problems. Mercedes owners are lucky to figure out how to put gas in their cars, much less tackle replacing a brake master switch or god forbid REPAIRING one. This makes a lot of the complaints useless to me.
There seems to have been an issue with the power steering pump brackets on this model. Having owned multiple Lexus Sc400's..... power steering pump failures mean nothing to me...... Half hour with the air tools and keep going.
There seems to have been another series of reports with the fuel pumps. Why I do not know. They are the same pumps and system as on the CLK430 and no one with a CLK has ever reported a terminal problem with the pumps. Fortunately it is not that hard to get to. I could do it in an hour.
Don't let me lead you into thinking I am snubbing my nose at the problems, I see them and take heed. I am simply trying to find out if the problems are people who couldn't assemble a charcoal grill complaining about things that most common people should be able to DIY. This does seem to support about 70-75% of the complaints for electrical issues with switches that are fairly easy to replace and most can be repaired by cleaning the contacts.
I NEVER saw one complaint about the engine out of 300 "thumbs down" reviews I read. I only saw 2 transmission complaints out of the 300 "thumbs down" reviews. In short, the vehicle seems to have all the expected german electrical gremlins, and all the expected whiners owning it that paid $50,000 for it and are pissed the window switch failed. (not that I wouldn't be if I paid 50 grand for it).
I have not found any critical failures and as expected the engine and tranny seem to be bulletproof. Most of the complaints are electrical and that has never been an issue for me being an EE.
I know this sounds like I am favoring the vehicle, but I am really just reading deeper into the complaints and seeing if any truly apply to me. I have not made any consideration either way for or against it.
10-15-07, 02:22 AM
#34
Keeper of the light
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LMFAO I had to share this with you even though it is slightly off topic. I was checking the reviews out and found this one. I'm rolling out of my chair......
http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-...38FC532B-prod5
From a Ferrari owner... pay attention to the "con"
http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-...38FC532B-prod5
From a Ferrari owner... pay attention to the "con"
10-15-07, 02:37 AM
#35
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Well guy's I don't know what they did that was so wrong with the ML, but whatever it was they seemed to have created a hate group with a loyal following.
The CLK430 is a very special and hard to get car that people still want badly based on all the buzz it created while in production. The waiting list for a hard top CLK430 in clean condition to come on to the market is about as it was when they first came out and people were waiting 6 months for the dealer to deliver. I made up my mind quick that I was not going to give up my CLK for am ML, but I still considered buying the ML.
I have decided that it is not for me. Like I say, I have no idea what they screwed up in the ML, but out of the reviews I read (which was nearly all of them on the internet since tomorrow was D-day for the decision) it seems that:
8 out of 10 reviews for the ML were
11 out of 12 reviews for the CLK were
It seems the CLK is as solid for other owners as it has been for me, but the ML is just down right and I don't understand why since the switches and some electrical are the same.
Still, the ML seem to be a dime a dozen and the CLK is still as desirable and hard to find used in clean condition as it ever was. SO I already knew I wasn't going to trade it, and I may have just "bought" the ML, I have decided no to.
The CLK430 is a very special and hard to get car that people still want badly based on all the buzz it created while in production. The waiting list for a hard top CLK430 in clean condition to come on to the market is about as it was when they first came out and people were waiting 6 months for the dealer to deliver. I made up my mind quick that I was not going to give up my CLK for am ML, but I still considered buying the ML.
I have decided that it is not for me. Like I say, I have no idea what they screwed up in the ML, but out of the reviews I read (which was nearly all of them on the internet since tomorrow was D-day for the decision) it seems that:
8 out of 10 reviews for the ML were
11 out of 12 reviews for the CLK were
It seems the CLK is as solid for other owners as it has been for me, but the ML is just down right
and I don't understand why since the switches and some electrical are the same. Still, the ML seem to be a dime a dozen and the CLK is still as desirable and hard to find used in clean condition as it ever was. SO I already knew I wasn't going to trade it, and I may have just "bought" the ML, I have decided no to.
10-15-07, 02:57 AM
#36
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I wouldn't even consider it.
As my girlfriend said...."I almost rear ended a refrigerator white Caravan when I first saw the ML b/c it was so ugly and couldn't believe it was a Mercedes!"
and the interior is the most horrid quality Mercedes I've been in IMO.
No offense to those who may own a ML, just my opinion.
As my girlfriend said...."I almost rear ended a refrigerator white Caravan when I first saw the ML b/c it was so ugly and couldn't believe it was a Mercedes!"
and the interior is the most horrid quality Mercedes I've been in IMO.
No offense to those who may own a ML, just my opinion.
10-15-07, 11:15 AM
#37
The M-Class is made in US. The CLK is made in Germany.
10-15-07, 06:50 PM
#38
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I'm extremely disappointed I passed this up based on it's reviews, but I did go and drive it today anyway just for kicks. This is one of the nicest ML's I've seen around here and it sucks I had to pass it up.
Took pics though so enjoy.......
Took pics though so enjoy.......
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