LetMeShowU

I agree, but I still think they were too conservative with this effort. It's a big improvement over the last CTS, no doubt about that. But I still can't get past the fact that they used the exact same sheet metal as the last generation model. It just shows a lack of confidence in their design team to offer something completely fresh, or even an ample refresh.

In general, GM still does not seem to want to respond to what the public wants until they absolutely have to. The fact that they are still offering both the STS & DTS are proof of this. There is not enough distinction between those two models and the CTS seems to be their bread and butter these days. They have enough cashflow to be offering something ultra competitive in each class, but yet all they have is this CTS. I don't know, I'm just not that impressed overall with their lineup.

LetMeShowU

That "logic" does not apply in this situation.

LexFather

There is no way you can call out the CTS on this and not the G35 as well. It is not the exact same sheetmetal. Both cars look very similar to the last model. How can you say thye lack confidence in design, Caddy's are now instatly recognizable with their Art and Science design. They are very bold and different. IN contrast, all Infinit's and Nissans are nearly identical.

How can you say GM doesn't respond to what the public wants when Caddy sales are increasing and better than ever?? THen their quality is going up. They now offer the V-series cars. Caddilac and Infiniti are mirror images in many places, especially:
going from FWD to RWD
going from awful interiors to much better ones
bringing new and exciting cars/SUVs to the market.
turning around their sales from awful to good

Caddy is I believe the 3rd best selling luxury brand. Cadillac is a serious force and their management has a clue. They are getting the picture.

It is evident you are really just pro-Nissan and have no facts or data to back anything up. On top of that your opinions lacks cohesiveness and really just fan flames.

You said you were going to stop posting here, yet you continue.

How can you say those things about the CTS or Caddy?? It makes absolutely no sense.

RON430

Why is it sooooo difficult for the auto mags to try and pit models against one another that are real alternatives in the consumer's mind? I have to agree that the CTS is quite a bit roomier. I wonder how the CTS would do against the RL, M35, GS350, 535, and E350? I have an idea it wouldn't win but its price would probably make it the value buy of the lot as opposed to this test.

LexFather

Ron, not completely the mags fault. Lets see here.
Standards were the Germans, about 175 inches long
Audi 100 (now A4) C-class, 3 series.
Acura has Integra. but FWD
Lexus then brings ES 300, 188 inches long, but fights those cars.
Infiniti brings I30, 190 inches long, fights those cars.

Now midsize, Germans again rule the class. A6/5/E class about 188 inches long.
GS 300 comes, 194 inches long
J30 was 190 inches long
both RWD to fight the Germans

So the Japenese were bigger. Germans get a little bigger.

Lets get to early 2000s.

Lexus has the revolutionary GS 300/400 (well 430 now). IDENTICAL to the Germans. I-6/v-8, now 189 inches long. Long wheelbase, short overhangs.
A4/C-class, 3 about 178 inches long
Caddy Catera is 192 inches long BUT competes with those cars.
Acura brings the TL, also 192 inches long, but competes with those cars somewhat.
Infiniti discontinues the I35 which as 190 inches long
ES 300 moves away from these cars, IS 300 comes. IS 300 is IDENTICAL to the germans in dimensions, even with an I-6. 178 inches long.

Now the A6 grows to 192 inches, E and 5 right at about 190 inches long.

So at this point, Lexus has now copied the Germans.

The GS 300/400 and IS 300 were the first Japanese cars to get truly German. And it paid off.

Then lets move on.

A4/C/3 now about 180 inches long.
Caddy has the CTS, in this class but still big 190 inches
Infiniti now has the G35, in this class, big at 186 inches
Acura shrinks TL, still large for this class, 190 inches.

So really, Infiniti, Caddy and Acura were always in their own large class, to be sporty sedans. Large but priced in the smalll class.

They are as big as midsize Germans and the Lexus GS.

Today

Germans around 180 inches as the IS 250/350.
Acura TSX is 180 inches but a class under them.
Tl is 190 inches in the same class
G35 is 188 inches in the same class
CTS is 190 inches in the same class
Lexus GS 350/460/450h is 190 inches a class above
E class is 190 inches a class above
5 is now 192 inches
A6 is now 194 inches
Infiniti now has the M35/45 which is 194 inches


Confusing? But that is how the classes are the same but different for Acura, Infinti and Caddy.

Sad I know all that in my head!!!

LexFather

Oh and the new Jag Xf is a midsize at 196 inches long, which is longest in that class and muddies the midsize/fullsize segment.

The LS 430 was 196 inches long!

LetMeShowU

I know you have a habit of posting pictures on here in regards to how similar Nissans & Infinitis are in design. And while some models share similar cues, each design is completely different. If you think they look the same, then I don't know what to tell you. The CTS does not look any different from the previous model on the outside. In contrast, the G35 has a completely different face and rear, different exhaust, different rear lights, different headlights, chrome lip, different swooped lines from front to back, etc. To me, it looks more luxurious and less sporty. More along the lines of a sporty ES competitor than a 3 series, TL, or IS competitor.

I say that Cadillac lacks confidence in design, because they have been using this same large boxey design on the CTS now for several years (along with several other models). There is no distinction between the two CTS models. I challenge you to post pictures of the current model and compare it with the previous model. And then do the same with the G35 and we'll allow the rest of the board to compare the two and be the judge of which car looks more like the car it replaces. You seem to like to post these kinds of pics on a regular basis on here, so I'm sure you wouldn't mind demonstrating the comparison for the rest of us.


Let's be honest here. The reason why Cadillac sales are so strong are because they are American built. And the flyover states would never and will never consider anything outside of the good ole USA. I've traveled outside of the northeast area quite a bit and have traveled cross country several times. I can count on one hand how many Lexus's & Infinitis I have seen. Cadillacs on the other hand are everywhere. Their high sales numbers are based more on lower prices compared to European and Japanese competition and the fact that they are American made.


Think what you want. I explained to you quite thoroughly why I think the way that I do about the CTS and about Cadillac. You say that it is evident that I am really pro-Nissan. Well, I can say to you that it is evident that you are really anti-Nissan. I've been there with you before, so I won't go there again, but alot of your comments seem transparent to me. You have your opinions, so thats fine, but I have mine as well.

Anyway, let's get this back on topic, shall we?

RON430

Man, was I wrong. I haven't really spent any time in a G35 but I have been in the new CTS and I found it to be pretty roomy. So, I checked a few interior volumes (cubic feet) and here's what I found:

CTS - 98
G35 - 99
RL - 99
5 series - 99
TL - 98
M35/45 - 105
IS - 86
GS - 110
A4 - 91
A6 - 98
C class - 88
E class - 96

Just goes to show that what the interior designer does with the room has a good deal to do with it. The numbers are from the dimenions section off of Carsdirect so complain to them if they are off.

I don't find the current GS to be as roomy inside as my second gens but at 110 cuft interior space it just shows that what they do with that head/shoulder/hip/leg room is as important as how much they have to carve up. So it's not just wheelbase and total length that have been stretching. Good reason why automakers go ballistic over canibilizing customers, other makers or their own, with new models. Inside the car, many models compete that you wouldn't at first thought would be competing.

So all I can fall back on is that I still have this notion that a CTS buyer wouldn't be cross shopping a G35 but I am probably wrong in that. It happens.

carguy101

The next gen A4 is supposed to be G35 sized.

toy4two

who cares, they all lose to the BMW 335i.

LexFather

Yes sir. I always tell people with those interior dimensions, you really need to sit inside the car. Those numbers can be so different depending on the person(peoples) size. Though I do think the GS number is wrong.

The M35/45 is IMO very very roomy, much roomier than the GS. Its 58 inches tall to the GSs 56 inches.

As for size, its one of the reasons I say the G35 at a base price of $32k is simply the best value out there. The size of a midsize, very good performance and the price of a loaded Maxima.

LexBob2

I live in the middle of the "flyover states" (Il), and there are Lexus, Infiniti's, BMW's, MB's, etc., etc. EVERYWHERE.

rjm

I'm always interested in the total cost to drive it. Resale on BMW's is excellent. I wonder how resale would be on a CTS or an Infiniti? In the past, it hasn't been that great.

LexFather

Ignore him, he has no clue and yet to post anything resembling a fact. He states Caddy is priced below the Germans and Japanese when in this VERY comparo, the CTS is 8 grand MORE than the G35. If anything Caddys are on par or more expensive than the competition. Every post just loses value. Its sad

Acura and Infiniti are the value leaders with Audi the German value leader. I am shocked at the prices of new Lexus vehicles which many times are on par or more than the Germans, and people continue to ****** them up.

Caddy is very much hip, look no further than the Escalade. The CTS and STS do well.

They continue to improve, more than any other brand, they are ones to watch.

carguy101

I'm confused. The base G35 weights 3497 pounds. How did they get a car that weights 3790 pounds? Does the sport package really add 300 pounds to the car? If so, I can see a non-Sport G35 auto doing 5.1s 0-60. 300 pounds is pretty significant.