Mercedes-Benz engineers focusing on weight reduction
11-06-07, 05:57 PM
#1
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Mercedes-Benz engineers focusing on weight reduction
Mercedes-Benz engineers focusing on weight reduction
Posted on Tuesday 6 November 2007
Over the years Mercedes models have been gaining so much weight engineers have been forced to increase engine output to the point where it’s eclipsing the levels of supercars just to keep up with the competition in the performance stakes. A prime example of this is the SL, a two-seater coupe-convertible that weighs more than two tons in some guises and develops up to 604hp.
Throw in a monster twin-turbo V12 engine and the car will rocket in a straight line but get to the twisty stuff and it will be left eating the dust of its lighter and better handling competition. Then there’s the increased wear and tear on the tires, suspension, brakes and transmission, plus the constant trips to the fuel station.
This is a problem Daimler execs are well aware of. In a recent interview with Automotive News Europe, Mercedes’ director of vehicle concepts and ergonomics, Gunther Ellenrieder, explained the weight problem is something engineers are focusing on for Mercedes’ future models. Already they’ve developed cylinder blocks and chassis components made from light weight aluminum and in the future we’ll see more weight reductions made to the car’s body, Ellenrieder revealed.
Further potential for weight loss will be with developing new exhaust systems. “I do not believe that an exhaust system of the future must look in such a way, like it looks today,” stressed Ellenrieder.
Posted on Tuesday 6 November 2007
Over the years Mercedes models have been gaining so much weight engineers have been forced to increase engine output to the point where it’s eclipsing the levels of supercars just to keep up with the competition in the performance stakes. A prime example of this is the SL, a two-seater coupe-convertible that weighs more than two tons in some guises and develops up to 604hp.
Throw in a monster twin-turbo V12 engine and the car will rocket in a straight line but get to the twisty stuff and it will be left eating the dust of its lighter and better handling competition. Then there’s the increased wear and tear on the tires, suspension, brakes and transmission, plus the constant trips to the fuel station.
This is a problem Daimler execs are well aware of. In a recent interview with Automotive News Europe, Mercedes’ director of vehicle concepts and ergonomics, Gunther Ellenrieder, explained the weight problem is something engineers are focusing on for Mercedes’ future models. Already they’ve developed cylinder blocks and chassis components made from light weight aluminum and in the future we’ll see more weight reductions made to the car’s body, Ellenrieder revealed.
Further potential for weight loss will be with developing new exhaust systems. “I do not believe that an exhaust system of the future must look in such a way, like it looks today,” stressed Ellenrieder.
11-06-07, 06:11 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
But weight reduction can only be taken so far. Mercedes and Volvo have both developed well-deserved reputations for safety and crashworthiness....and while, of course, weight alone, by itself, does not necessarily guarantee a safe vehicle, the laws of physics dictate that, with most other things equal, a larger, heavier vehicle will usually come out of a crash with less damage than a smaller, lighter one.
Take the Daewoo-built Chevy Aveo, for instance, a small car with (by today's standards) a reasonable number of safety features and reasonably good crashworthiness for a small car. If two of them crash head-on, with occupants and cargo of more or less equal weight, the two cars will sustain pretty much the same amount of damage.
But run an Aveo head-on into a Suburban, loaded or not, and watch what will happen. The Aveo, guaranteed, will come out second best......BIG time.
Take the Daewoo-built Chevy Aveo, for instance, a small car with (by today's standards) a reasonable number of safety features and reasonably good crashworthiness for a small car. If two of them crash head-on, with occupants and cargo of more or less equal weight, the two cars will sustain pretty much the same amount of damage.
But run an Aveo head-on into a Suburban, loaded or not, and watch what will happen. The Aveo, guaranteed, will come out second best......BIG time.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-06-07 at 06:14 PM.
11-06-07, 08:23 PM
#7
Lexus Champion
I've been saying for years now that weight reduction is the answer to improving almost every possible aspect of a car. From engineering tolerance requirements to acceleration and economy (both material and fuel), braking, handling, and everything in between.
Take your typical fairly competitive car today and find a way to drop its weight by 20% and watch it become a whole new car on a whole new level, on its own.
Consider that weight reduction (and weight GAIN) are cyclical in effect. If you drop 10% of a car's weight then suddenly you find that you can use a lighter weight chassis to maintain rigidity, lighter brakes to stop it, a lighter motor to accelerate it, a lighter transmission, etc, etc... and next thing you know all of that lighter stuff just dropped another 5% which causes another cyclical drop!
Take your typical fairly competitive car today and find a way to drop its weight by 20% and watch it become a whole new car on a whole new level, on its own.
Consider that weight reduction (and weight GAIN) are cyclical in effect. If you drop 10% of a car's weight then suddenly you find that you can use a lighter weight chassis to maintain rigidity, lighter brakes to stop it, a lighter motor to accelerate it, a lighter transmission, etc, etc... and next thing you know all of that lighter stuff just dropped another 5% which causes another cyclical drop!
Trending Topics
11-06-07, 09:48 PM
#8
But weight reduction can only be taken so far. Mercedes and Volvo have both developed well-deserved reputations for safety and crashworthiness....and while, of course, weight alone, by itself, does not necessarily guarantee a safe vehicle, the laws of physics dictate that, with most other things equal, a larger, heavier vehicle will usually come out of a crash with less damage than a smaller, lighter one.
Take the Daewoo-built Chevy Aveo, for instance, a small car with (by today's standards) a reasonable number of safety features and reasonably good crashworthiness for a small car. If two of them crash head-on, with occupants and cargo of more or less equal weight, the two cars will sustain pretty much the same amount of damage.
But run an Aveo head-on into a Suburban, loaded or not, and watch what will happen. The Aveo, guaranteed, will come out second best......BIG time.
Take the Daewoo-built Chevy Aveo, for instance, a small car with (by today's standards) a reasonable number of safety features and reasonably good crashworthiness for a small car. If two of them crash head-on, with occupants and cargo of more or less equal weight, the two cars will sustain pretty much the same amount of damage.
But run an Aveo head-on into a Suburban, loaded or not, and watch what will happen. The Aveo, guaranteed, will come out second best......BIG time.
11-07-07, 05:43 AM
#9
Lead Lap
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am a big proponent of lighter weight. Look at the Bentley CGT which I think is over 5000 lbs. It's able to move with up to 600hp but it's certainly heavy.
The SL is a prime example of heavy weight. Jaguar has been using aluminum for a while and with an expensive car like the SL to begin with I think this would be a great place to start and probably could save hundreds of pounds.
I realize weight is safe but I don't think it has to be excess weight. For example I bought a Legacy Wagon which was rated as a top pick as a one of the safest cars around. I was liikong at something cheaper and smaller like a Fit which gets better econ but gives away 700 lbs and several feet of length. So I picked the Legacy partly for safety reasons. But the Legacy is not a sumo-size car it weighs about 3300 lbs. I think MB (an others) can work in the 3300 lb and up weight class. They don't need to be close to 5000 lbs to be safe.
The SL in the example top weight is the same (or more) than a minivan. And the Bentley is as much as some full size PU-Trucks or Large SUVs. I don't think it has to be.
I was just reading an article about the new S2000 CR against the new Nismo 350Z and the 350Z was almost 800 lbs heavier than the S2000 and this was not even the 350Z roadster which would be (probably) 1000 lbs heavier than the S2000.
Lower weigh = smaller engines (power) = same performance
The SL is a prime example of heavy weight. Jaguar has been using aluminum for a while and with an expensive car like the SL to begin with I think this would be a great place to start and probably could save hundreds of pounds.
I realize weight is safe but I don't think it has to be excess weight. For example I bought a Legacy Wagon which was rated as a top pick as a one of the safest cars around. I was liikong at something cheaper and smaller like a Fit which gets better econ but gives away 700 lbs and several feet of length. So I picked the Legacy partly for safety reasons. But the Legacy is not a sumo-size car it weighs about 3300 lbs. I think MB (an others) can work in the 3300 lb and up weight class. They don't need to be close to 5000 lbs to be safe.
The SL in the example top weight is the same (or more) than a minivan. And the Bentley is as much as some full size PU-Trucks or Large SUVs. I don't think it has to be.
I was just reading an article about the new S2000 CR against the new Nismo 350Z and the 350Z was almost 800 lbs heavier than the S2000 and this was not even the 350Z roadster which would be (probably) 1000 lbs heavier than the S2000.
Lower weigh = smaller engines (power) = same performance
Last edited by rai; 11-07-07 at 05:48 AM.
11-07-07, 03:52 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
But weight reduction can only be taken so far. Mercedes and Volvo have both developed well-deserved reputations for safety and crashworthiness....and while, of course, weight alone, by itself, does not necessarily guarantee a safe vehicle, the laws of physics dictate that, with most other things equal, a larger, heavier vehicle will usually come out of a crash with less damage than a smaller, lighter one.
11-07-07, 07:22 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
11-07-07, 07:51 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Bingo. Plus with lighter cars you can use smaller engines with lower emissions. Europe's got standards adopted or coming that will require the cars to output emissions FAR CLEANER than what their intakes suck in. 
11-08-07, 12:36 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seeing as how most every car, including the large luxury sedans, are having tire noise issues, I can't get very excited about this. Now if MB wants to delete some of the dumber electrical technologies that take pounds and pounds of wiring, and improve the NVH along the way, I might be impressed. But the quickest way will be to thin that sheet metal down another fraction, thin the glass down another mm or two, and remove some sound deadening. Then run some numbers about how stiff that gen car is and start adding watts to the sound system to drowned out the tire/road noise.
One step forward, two steps back....
One step forward, two steps back....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JessePS
Car Chat
7
05-04-14 01:39 PM
