ldc

I would not still call Lexus a second class brand, as it is fast becoming the top luxury brand of choice in many countries at the current moment.

CK6Speed, i know what you are saying about a car is car in your eyes, but you have to know and need to think about it especially when there are more and more cars to choose from now. Acura i a luxury brand as is Infinity BUT are ALL Acura cars luxurious (from the very base models? I think not. Imo only the Legend can be called Luxury in the Honda world. We don't have Infinity in Australia so i don't know how they are.

Lexus base entry model the Is250 (in it's naked form) sits just above the 325i, but even has more features whereas BMW's base enry model 320i is not even on par with a Corolla. This said, Lexus isn't about ripping people off, it's all class and value for money with every letter that it stands for.

When you go higher up the range, Merc would sit well on top then comes BMW BUT are losing to Lexus. There is no other Brand that non-millionaires can afford that are more value for money, has higher class statuses and luxury pedigree than BMW, Mercs and Lexus.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Everyone has their own perception of what is and is not luxury, or what is the minimum luxury a luxury car should have. You already know where I stand on the topic. However, if I were to try and place a luxury status on some of the cars metioned based on the RL being the only Honda/Acura in the luxury class, I'd also have to say the IS250/350, ES350, RX350 should also be scratched off the luxury class as well. Why? Because I think the TL is a worthy competitor to the ES, and I think the TSX is a worth competitor to the IS250. I also think the MDX goes head to head with the RX350.

Now, if you are talking about the old Integra/RSX, I would NOT call that a luxury car at all. Just like how I don't really consider my BMW 330i a luxury car, nor would I consider an IS250/350 a luxury car. I do consider Acura, BMW, and Lexus a luxury brand though. They just happen to sell a model or two that are not true luxury. Just like when Acura sold the NSX. Surely it wasn't a luxury car but more an exotic during its hay day.

I think you would be surprised with the Infiniti cars. While they may not have the same prestige or sales success as Lexus, their current models are really good IMHO.

tex2670

The only reason not to put Lexus in the same class as BMW or MB is if you are going to say, across the board, that all Japanese lux cars are a class below the Germans. Otherwise, I'm not sure how you can say Lex isn't on par. I will definitely agree that there's a different feel to a German car, but I don't think that makes it a class above.

MrG4Life

iTrader: (14)

I've always felt Lexus is branded "luxury" AND is along the lines of MB and BMW.

Old Oiler

I appreciate all of everyones' responses. All of you have made really good points that I never even considered.

My original point of the thread was not to start a debate although I can understand how that point could come across, but to see what your [I]perception [I] of Lexus is relative to the rest of the upper end automobile world.

There is no doubt that there are a lot of good quality cars out there, Honda being one of the best along with it's higher end Acura line.

Truth be told, I bought a Lexus strictly for quality sakes AND the fact that I wanted rear wheel drive. On top of that, I actually prefer the styling of Lexus compared to it's peers.

I almost waited for the 2008 G37 as that was what I WAS going to buy in the first place. It got to the point that I could not wait any longer for a new vehicle. (Mechanical reasons) So I purchased the IS.

No disrespect to G37 owners, but I much prefer the older G35 coupe. I've caused the last of this to get off topic, so thanks for all of your valid response!

Cheers,
Old Oiler

Gojirra99

I agree with CK6SPEED, & it's always the model that should determine prestige more than the brand - there's no way a regular mercedes C-class more prestigious than a Lexus LS/GS in my book for example.

Tekknikal

brand as a whole does matter in terms of public image. in these regards by popular opinion id say lexus is doing well.

but me personally i go by car. brand works for the average joe who says 'its a benz' or 'its a bmw' or 'its a lexus' to also mean 'its a top tier car'. but imo, thats not always true. not all benzes, bmws, and lexuses are identical. some (probably most) are really good cars. but there are cases where another manufacturer just has them beat.

at the end of the day, the brand name doesnt define the car. the car defines the brand name.

picus

I agree with the above. There are a lot of pretty expensive cars here, so at least in the city most people know enough about them to actually distinguish by model rather than badge. For example, the B-class (not sure if the US gets that?), is pretty much considered an overpriced econo-box (which is kind of is). The c-class is like the car rich parents give to their kids in highschool. The 3 is the car every junior level exec grabs as soon as he can afford the lease payments, etc... Even 5-series (most of which are 525's), aren't really considered "upper class", I think you need to get into the M's, 6's, or 7's, or the AMGs, S-classes, etc... My 335i only gets looks because you don't see many e92's yet, in a year it will just be another crappy 3 series.

Lexus is sort of the odd man out; I think people generally consider them to be in the same league as BMW/MB here, but you see a lot less of them. I see some IS250s and 350s, but very few GSs, L's, etc. The general perception is they are definitely on par with BMW/MB for prestige.

cjf_moraga

Amongst the more intangible qualities of what makes a prestige marque must surely be a certain "brand and model confidence". The makers stick to their core models, maintain their standards, and build a strong identity for each over many model cycles.

In their core models Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW are always 100% consistent regardless of the generation.. whether S-Class, LS, or & series, E-Class, ES, RX, 5 Series etc. You automatically associate an identity with each and you always know what you are getting. (Whether you like them personally or not) The shopping public always knows what they are getting with an LS or an S-Class and they buy into the brand image with confidence.

Lexus is increasingly reaping the rewards of consistency and confidence.

When I think of Acura or Infiniti I always have to look up what is currently on the market and what all these models are. Infiniti dropping the Q45, Acura switching the Legend/RL names, the confusing nomeclature (TSX, TL, RL etc) to me are marques with a much lower degree of "self confidence" and that surely impacts perceptions of why they are not in the same league.

Chris

XeroK00L

It may be true for most parts of Europe and Asia, but at least in Taiwan, where I came from, Lexus has been beating BMW in terms of brand image/prestige for the last couple of years, according to an annual survey by China Times, where readers vote for what they think is "the most prestigious luxury car brand":

2005 ranking:
BENZ :39.09%
LEXUS:20.43%
BMW :16.32%

2006 ranking:
BENZ :35.59% (down)
LEXUS:21.19% (up)
BMW :14.78% (down)

LexFather

Lexus is also best selling in Russia and seems to be really liked there.

RON430

In my opinion, Lexus isn't the prestige luxury buy, it is the smart luxury buy. Lexus has a value edge over Bimmer, MB, and Audi. It still maintains a reliability edge as well. While the reliability would have to disintegrate to get down to German levels, the pricing edge has been slowly reducing. Audi, BMW, and MB benefit by their pricing to some extent. Limiting volume is one way to make exclusivity. Another good way is to insure that anyone getting into the club can pay the incoming tarriff. Having said that, bimmer has the expensive side and the performance side covered. If you have money and what to create the image that driving the car is important to you, get a bimmer. MB just has that high price to contend with. When a benz rolls buy generally he has paid more than any equivalent model from somebody else. Maybe Audi's biggest problem is exactly what the marque says about the owner. At this price point, it sure isn't about how many cup holders you get. Lexus has the perception of equalling points of the other marques for luxury but is still a value buy. While Lexus does not have the history to pull on like the European marques it does have the distinction of being the only outside maker to break into the old boys club. If you are looking for a large luxury sedan you have to brain dead to not realize that beside the Europeans, the only Japanese brand you can shop is Lexus. Infiniti decided to stop the Q with no replacement and Acura has never had a model in that league.

It's interesting that if you were to change this around and ask what model defines a marque, you will get different answers. Especially depending on who you talk to. If you are an automotive enthusiast you would say that the 3 defines bimmer. In reality, Lexus first model was the LS and I suspect that is still their defining model. I would say for MB it is the S. Please note I am not talking about which models sell the highest volume which will always be the lower priced models but rather which car defines the marque. And maybe that is Audi and Jaguar's problem. This isn't some extensively thought through thesis, just a quick thought.

tex2670

Maybe I'm just more in tune with Lexus now that I own one, but I feel like I see LS's (the new ones) all over the place, and GS's too. More so than IS's.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Brand Image, IMO, Lexus>BMW>Merz.
Realistically, Merz>BMW>Lexus...

picus

Could be where you are, could be perception. I'm by no means an accurate barometer of how many are out there, but I do drive a lot and notice most nice cars; and I just don't see a lot of LS's or GS's. I don't see many IS's compared to 3 series or C classes either, but more than LS/GS. I think that helps the Lexus prestige here. I did see a black IS350 with BBS LM Champ editions the other day and it was turning heads big time.