Should Acura drop the RL?
11-09-07, 03:43 AM
#16
Super Moderator
Acura actually sells its vehicles where I live. They've been here since late 2004, and I echo comments mentioned above, those who come in for the RL get the TL. I rarely seen an RL here. For the price, there are other offerings. In the marketing scheme, Acura does ZERO to distinguish this vehicle or even set it apart.
11-09-07, 04:25 AM
#17
Lexus Champion
In early 2005, everyone was buzzing about the release of the 3 new Executive Class models from Lexus, Infiniti, & Acura. Lexus was about to put out their new GS, Infiniti was about to put out their new M, and Acura was about to put out their new RL. The playing field seemed pretty even at that point.
Fast forward two and a half years later, and both the Lexus GS & Infiniti M routinely sell over 1500 units/month, yet the RL is currently struggling at around 300-400 units/month. Both the GS & M are outselling the RL by at least 4:1.
It's pretty obvious at this point that the Acura RL is a sales flop and has not lived up to expectations. So the question is, should Acura drop it from its lineup? And if not, then how long should they wait until making that decision?
Infiniti was smart to do away with the Q once sales slumped so low that it wasn't worth keeping it in their lineup anymore. They seemed to realize that maybe it was time to just pull back for awhile and concentrate on solidifying some of their other models first before investing anymore time and money into the current model Q.
So, should Acura perhaps do the same?
If not, then what could they do to revive the RL and keep it in their lineup? I can't imagine them keeping it around if sales plummet to less than 200 units/month, which is where it seems to be heading at the moment.
So, what do you think they should do?
Fast forward two and a half years later, and both the Lexus GS & Infiniti M routinely sell over 1500 units/month, yet the RL is currently struggling at around 300-400 units/month. Both the GS & M are outselling the RL by at least 4:1.
It's pretty obvious at this point that the Acura RL is a sales flop and has not lived up to expectations. So the question is, should Acura drop it from its lineup? And if not, then how long should they wait until making that decision?
Infiniti was smart to do away with the Q once sales slumped so low that it wasn't worth keeping it in their lineup anymore. They seemed to realize that maybe it was time to just pull back for awhile and concentrate on solidifying some of their other models first before investing anymore time and money into the current model Q.
So, should Acura perhaps do the same?
If not, then what could they do to revive the RL and keep it in their lineup? I can't imagine them keeping it around if sales plummet to less than 200 units/month, which is where it seems to be heading at the moment.
So, what do you think they should do?
But--Acura's problem has been that they don't strive to have a true lux car like the LS or the M45. They are content having their flagship be a car that competes with the "Executive" (middle) models of other companies. To make matters worse, their entry is not the class leader. It's also not that big--I think there was another thread that noted the new Accord is bigger than the RL. Super Handling All Wheel Drive isn't enough to attract people to the RL. When it debuted, the nav traffic was a new novelty. Competitors have it now. The styling is plain. I thought I read it hasn't been all that reliable either.
They need to BOTH inject the RL (or a replacement) with some life, AND come out with a V8 powered flagship that competes with the LS class of cars.
11-09-07, 04:29 AM
#18
Rumor Mill
There are rumblings that there was no usual 4th year MMC bc they are doing a major refresh early next year. Supposedly a new engine (I am guessing the MDX 3.7), new sheet metal & larger size.
Honda/Acura knows what they need to do but as usual they are dancing to the beat of their own drummer. Acura has a lot of potential but they have to put forth some effort; the new design center & dropping the RSX are a promising start ...
Back to the original question: dropping it would probably be bad since they need something other than an entry level luxury sedan but it needs major work & promotion. Major.
Honda/Acura knows what they need to do but as usual they are dancing to the beat of their own drummer. Acura has a lot of potential but they have to put forth some effort; the new design center & dropping the RSX are a promising start ...
Back to the original question: dropping it would probably be bad since they need something other than an entry level luxury sedan but it needs major work & promotion. Major.
11-09-07, 05:34 AM
#19
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I don't think changing this car to RWD is going to help. Afterall, Acura/Honda buyers have always been buying FWD cars (save the NSX, S2000). Perhaps offering a high performance, fuel savvy option to the RL would entice some buyers, especially the Honda buyers coming into money looking to upgrade to such an option.
Acura has had bigger failures before
Acura has had bigger failures before
11-09-07, 05:46 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
No I don't think they should get rid of the RL. It is ashame they don't sell more because it is an excellent car and in many ways superior to its competition. In my opinion it has the nicest interior of all its competition and it is built like a tank. It gets good to very good reviews by the car magazines and compares very well to its competition. Actually all 3 new mid level Japanese luxury are not doing that well or below expectations and it has alot to do with lesser priced models stealing sales from them which is not exactly a bad thing. The RL is my favorite mid level luxury car and it is actually nice that you don't see them everywhere all the time. I actaully see more RLs on the road the new GS or M so it seems odd they sell so much more.
The reason the RL is not selling that well is not due to the actual car being bad or lackluster but other reasons like lack of drivetrain/engine options, the last RL being pretty lackluster and not very well recognized nor did the last one sell well, the TL is generally thought of to have a much nicer and edgier exterior and is roughly the same size but much less expensive which is why many just end up chosing the TL over the RL, etc. The car is actually a very good choice and value at least compared to its competition.
Acura should do a pretty extensive mid cycle refresh and offer a turbo charged powerplant to like 375hp and bump up the base engine to around 310-315hp, offer more wood options like light birds eye maple as well as maybe some more wood accents like on the shifter and steering wheel like on the Japanese versions, have heated and cooled front and rear seats as well as power reclining/massaging rear seats, have night vision and distronic cruise like that is available on the Japanese version, update the exterior with a more aggressive facia and update the rear to look more luxurous and elegant, and for the love of god give it some decent rims instead of those plain aluminum rims and ugly cheap looking chrome rims. And finally change the name back to Acura "LEGEND" instead of RL which has no recognition in the market. Acura Legend has much more respect and recognition and they never should have changed the name or the formula to something else. Maybe offer a larger stretched version if that is possible.
There are rumors the next RL will be based on a RWD platform from the next NSX/ASC or whatever it will called that will offer a v-10 option,rwd only, and possibly a new v-8. There are also rumors a larger more expensive flagship sedan with be based on this platform as well as a larger mid priced coupe. I am sure these cars will sell better then the current RL although I will highly consider a used RL in the next few years after I get rid of the GS because I really like the current RL.
The reason the RL is not selling that well is not due to the actual car being bad or lackluster but other reasons like lack of drivetrain/engine options, the last RL being pretty lackluster and not very well recognized nor did the last one sell well, the TL is generally thought of to have a much nicer and edgier exterior and is roughly the same size but much less expensive which is why many just end up chosing the TL over the RL, etc. The car is actually a very good choice and value at least compared to its competition.
Acura should do a pretty extensive mid cycle refresh and offer a turbo charged powerplant to like 375hp and bump up the base engine to around 310-315hp, offer more wood options like light birds eye maple as well as maybe some more wood accents like on the shifter and steering wheel like on the Japanese versions, have heated and cooled front and rear seats as well as power reclining/massaging rear seats, have night vision and distronic cruise like that is available on the Japanese version, update the exterior with a more aggressive facia and update the rear to look more luxurous and elegant, and for the love of god give it some decent rims instead of those plain aluminum rims and ugly cheap looking chrome rims. And finally change the name back to Acura "LEGEND" instead of RL which has no recognition in the market. Acura Legend has much more respect and recognition and they never should have changed the name or the formula to something else. Maybe offer a larger stretched version if that is possible.
There are rumors the next RL will be based on a RWD platform from the next NSX/ASC or whatever it will called that will offer a v-10 option,rwd only, and possibly a new v-8. There are also rumors a larger more expensive flagship sedan with be based on this platform as well as a larger mid priced coupe. I am sure these cars will sell better then the current RL although I will highly consider a used RL in the next few years after I get rid of the GS because I really like the current RL.
But the question is, should it be dropped if sales don't pick up? I don't want to sound like a hypocrite...I believe in putting your money where your mouth is. So I guess that gets around to the question of would I actually buy one to keep it on the market? (though one sale, obviously, wouldn't make much difference). Right now, as much as I like the car, probably not. 45-50K is more than I care to put into a car, especially since I usually get a new car every 4-5 years. I could easily afford one if I really wanted one that bad, but right now I want to keep plenty of money in reserve for if and when I decide to move further out into VA and away from DC........but that is another story for another thread, not this one.
And, last, the RL does seem to be getting reasonably popular around here. I don't see them in Lexus numbers, but people in this area do seem to appreciate it.
11-09-07, 06:04 AM
#21
I guess that's where you and I differ. I don't try to "put down" anything. I simply try to look at a situation objectively and point out clear problems or mistakes a car company might make (*ahem* hybrids that use V6/V8 engines that do not sell) instead of praising their every move. Point is, unlike some people (again, another *ahem*), I'm no fanboy. Infiniti was wise to do away with the Q. They had the choice to keep it around. It was still selling, granted in small quantities. But they chose to temporarily discontinue it for a few years and focus on the other vehicles within their lineup - smart move.
Anyway, this thread is about the Acura RL. It's not about the Infiniti Q45. If you can't stay on topic, then get out of my thread please.
Thank You
Anyway, this thread is about the Acura RL. It's not about the Infiniti Q45. If you can't stay on topic, then get out of my thread please.
Thank You
Infiniti could afford to drop the Q45 because the M45 made it unnecessary. If Acura drops the RL, they need something to take its place.
But--Acura's problem has been that they don't strive to have a true lux car like the LS or the M45. They are content having their flagship be a car that competes with the "Executive" (middle) models of other companies. To make matters worse, their entry is not the class leader. It's also not that big--I think there was another thread that noted the new Accord is bigger than the RL. Super Handling All Wheel Drive isn't enough to attract people to the RL. When it debuted, the nav traffic was a new novelty. Competitors have it now. The styling is plain. I thought I read it hasn't been all that reliable either.
They need to BOTH inject the RL (or a replacement) with some life, AND come out with a V8 powered flagship that competes with the LS class of cars.
But--Acura's problem has been that they don't strive to have a true lux car like the LS or the M45. They are content having their flagship be a car that competes with the "Executive" (middle) models of other companies. To make matters worse, their entry is not the class leader. It's also not that big--I think there was another thread that noted the new Accord is bigger than the RL. Super Handling All Wheel Drive isn't enough to attract people to the RL. When it debuted, the nav traffic was a new novelty. Competitors have it now. The styling is plain. I thought I read it hasn't been all that reliable either.
They need to BOTH inject the RL (or a replacement) with some life, AND come out with a V8 powered flagship that competes with the LS class of cars.
I think the RL really has slumped into "executive" class persona. It's size is around the same size as others and it only provides a V6.
Honda needs to get it together. Everyone else has a V8 in the game and RWD. You can't change the market. Acura is becoming a niche market.
11-09-07, 06:24 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Now, that's not to say that the RL is an econobox....it certainly isn't, and the AWD adds drag and weight, even for the big V6, which affects mileage too. But my point is that just having a big V8 now may no longer guarantee sales.....in fact, those big V8's may soon be a niche market themselves.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-09-07 at 06:28 AM.
11-09-07, 08:23 AM
#23
Look at where the price of gas is going, though. Even 87 octane is pushing $3.00 now in my area........$4.00 premium in the near future, while not guaranteed, is a strong possibility. V8 powerplants may not have quite the popularity in the near future that they had in the past.
Now, that's not to say that the RL is an econobox....it certainly isn't, and the AWD adds drag and weight, even for the big V6, which affects mileage too. But my point is that just having a big V8 now may no longer guarantee sales.....in fact, those big V8's may soon be a niche market themselves.
Now, that's not to say that the RL is an econobox....it certainly isn't, and the AWD adds drag and weight, even for the big V6, which affects mileage too. But my point is that just having a big V8 now may no longer guarantee sales.....in fact, those big V8's may soon be a niche market themselves.
IMO, Acura needs to make the RL bigger. They have two cars in the same class with one at a significantly lower price with no real loss in luxury. If they still want to offer a v6 then more power to them, but offer the v8 as an option.
Options are what is sorely missing from all Acura products. The only real choice you can make the color and the option package. No engine options, no choice between FWD and AWD, and only the TL and TSX offer transmission options (although I admit they are the only ones that need them).
11-09-07, 09:16 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
I just said in another thread, if ACURA has a CHOICE to make. Go all out or stay a niche brand. If they do the former, they will NEED to do this.
TSX-true 3/IS etc competitor
TL-move up and make a 5/GS etc competitor
RL-move up and make a LS/S etc competitor
Make no mistake about it, the RL is NOT a bad car. On the contrary, its a really good car and clearly the most technologically advanced Honda sedan made. Sadly, the Acura brand's image simply doesn't get people to buy anything of theirs outside the MDX that costs 40k (and people buy 40k GM SUVs, etc).
Until they can prove they can get past that barrier....well....
11-09-07, 09:20 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
I guess that's where you and I differ. I don't try to "put down" anything. I simply try to look at a situation objectively and point out clear problems or mistakes a car company might make (*ahem* hybrids that use V6/V8 engines that do not sell) instead of praising their every move. Point is, unlike some people (again, another *ahem*), I'm no fanboy. Infiniti was wise to do away with the Q. They had the choice to keep it around. It was still selling, granted in small quantities. But they chose to temporarily discontinue it for a few years and focus on the other vehicles within their lineup - smart move.
Anyway, this thread is about the Acura RL. It's not about the Infiniti Q45. If you can't stay on topic, then get out of my thread please.
Thank You
Anyway, this thread is about the Acura RL. It's not about the Infiniti Q45. If you can't stay on topic, then get out of my thread please.
Thank You
You asked me to not talk about the Q45 and well, this is what YOU SAID in POST #1. LOL. If you don't want people to bring up other cars, try not to MENTION them in your first post. English 101.
POST#1
Originally Posted by [B
LetMeShowU[/B];3043941]
Infiniti was smart to do away with the Q once sales slumped so low that it wasn't worth keeping it in their lineup anymore. They seemed to realize that maybe it was time to just pull back for awhile and concentrate on solidifying some of their other models first before investing anymore time and money into the current model Q.
So, should Acura perhaps do the same?
So, what do you think they should do?
Infiniti was smart to do away with the Q once sales slumped so low that it wasn't worth keeping it in their lineup anymore. They seemed to realize that maybe it was time to just pull back for awhile and concentrate on solidifying some of their other models first before investing anymore time and money into the current model Q.
So, should Acura perhaps do the same?
So, what do you think they should do?
11-09-07, 09:41 AM
#27
Pole Position
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I am going to avoid this thread and again ask you change your handle because you have only shown your posts are not coherent and simply are not logical over and over.
You asked me to not talk about the Q45 and well, this is what YOU SAID in POST #1. LOL. If you don't want people to bring up other cars, try not to MENTION them in your first post. English 101.
POST#1
You asked me to not talk about the Q45 and well, this is what YOU SAID in POST #1. LOL. If you don't want people to bring up other cars, try not to MENTION them in your first post. English 101.
POST#1
Of course, none of this comes as a surprise to me as I'm quite used to this behavior by now. The only thing that surprises me is that there weren't photos of cars that supposedly look like other cars included in addition to the offensive one you posted.
11-09-07, 10:22 AM
#28
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YOU make YOURSELF feel a post is offensive. Don't get mad if myself or someone states a fact, for instance;
The Q45 is discontinued. Now you say its OKAY to post about the Q45, after (again) I've proven your posts don't make sense.
Then you follow it up with baiting, as you have your conceptions about me that will never change.
Now, I strongly suggest not worrying about how I post and worry about how YOU post.
Or just do what YOU SAID you would do.
The Q45 is discontinued. Now you say its OKAY to post about the Q45, after (again) I've proven your posts don't make sense.
Then you follow it up with baiting, as you have your conceptions about me that will never change.
Now, I strongly suggest not worrying about how I post and worry about how YOU post.
Or just do what YOU SAID you would do.
Last edited by LexFather; 11-09-07 at 10:25 AM.
11-09-07, 10:35 AM
#29
There is not much that separates the RL from the TL since they are based on the same platform. I believe they are the same platform with AWD on the RL. Size wise, they are very similar.
Acura needs to create a brand new platform for a "flagship" sedan. This would be a perfect opportunity for Acura to create large RWD V8 sedan to replace the RL.
Acura needs to create a brand new platform for a "flagship" sedan. This would be a perfect opportunity for Acura to create large RWD V8 sedan to replace the RL.
11-09-07, 10:45 AM
#30
Acura needs to bring the coupe back with some more power and possibly manual tranny. When legend was introduced it was ahead of its time. Also something about the FWD-style engine layout that bothers me. You don't see that on a 'luxury' car. Even the legend had RWD-style engine layout.