Should Acura drop the RL?
11-11-07, 04:29 PM
#76
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
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I disagree with those who say the RL has nothing "good" going for it. In fact, from an objective point of view (performance, features, build quality, etc.), it hands the competition (GS, M, 5, E) their lunch. It is in subjective factors ("boring" styling, brand prestige, etc.) that the RL suffers.
And perhaps we should all stop trying to force Acura to fit the mold the Germans set up, with the 3-5-7 or C-E-S lineups. Even Lexus has two models (ES and IS) at the bottom end to appeal to different kinds of buyers.
It could also be that Acura is not trying to be the sales leader but instead make a healthy profit by NOT competing directly with the others. After all, GM and Ford are selling plenty of vehicles and still losing money hand over fist. It's not all about # of cars sold. Look at the luxury clothing/accessories brands Bally and Escada. They're not in every mall, they don't flaunt themselves with flamboyant print campaigns, and they don't lavish stars with free items for the supposed exposure. Instead, they produce finer quality products than the better-known competition, and make a pretty penny doing it by appealing to consumers who are sophisticated enough not to need patterns of LV's or G's all over their stuff.
And perhaps we should all stop trying to force Acura to fit the mold the Germans set up, with the 3-5-7 or C-E-S lineups. Even Lexus has two models (ES and IS) at the bottom end to appeal to different kinds of buyers.
It could also be that Acura is not trying to be the sales leader but instead make a healthy profit by NOT competing directly with the others. After all, GM and Ford are selling plenty of vehicles and still losing money hand over fist. It's not all about # of cars sold. Look at the luxury clothing/accessories brands Bally and Escada. They're not in every mall, they don't flaunt themselves with flamboyant print campaigns, and they don't lavish stars with free items for the supposed exposure. Instead, they produce finer quality products than the better-known competition, and make a pretty penny doing it by appealing to consumers who are sophisticated enough not to need patterns of LV's or G's all over their stuff.
11-11-07, 09:52 PM
#77
Lexus Fanatic
Nope. I like the RL but it's too expensive for what it is. Even with the reduced price (had nothing to do with the Canadian dollar), at $65k, it's pretty expensive (for what is essentially a luxurious powerful V6 AWD Accord... not being demeaning or anything).
However, I'm not saying that a V8 will solve everything either. It's just that as a flagship vehicle, I expected something special. Something that says "only I and a few others can have this" (like the LS, XJ, S-Class, 7 and A8 etc). I also think the fact that Acura doesn't have the cache that Lexus/Infiniti has also helps in its demise (at least in Canada).
But as a vehicle, it's great. I love the blue-illuminated interior, the AWD, the smooth V6 and I love the styling of it.
Perhaps the only solution is to create another vehicle above the RL?
However, I'm not saying that a V8 will solve everything either. It's just that as a flagship vehicle, I expected something special. Something that says "only I and a few others can have this" (like the LS, XJ, S-Class, 7 and A8 etc). I also think the fact that Acura doesn't have the cache that Lexus/Infiniti has also helps in its demise (at least in Canada).
But as a vehicle, it's great. I love the blue-illuminated interior, the AWD, the smooth V6 and I love the styling of it.
Perhaps the only solution is to create another vehicle above the RL?
The RL is not too expensive or overpriced especially when you are comparing it to its competition. If the RL is overpriced then the GS300x, M35x, E class, A5, and 5 series are all overpriced too. Actually I think all these cars are kind of overpriced at 50K as I think you should get more car for that kind of money but that is the market and what people are paying. The RL comes one way and that is loaded, there are no real options even the nav system is standard. Once you option the other cars close to what the RL has then they are all more expensive and the Europeans are alot more expensive so it is the other cars that are overpriced and not the RL. There is nothing the competition really offers over the RL aside from a choice of larger engines and a few other things unique to the brand and you will pay alot more for the larger engines. Yes you can get base rwd models from some brands with less options then the RL for a couple grand less then the RL but it does not mean the RL was ever overpriced since it came loaded. The Legend/RL was always fairly expensive especially compared to the TL or Vigor so there was nothing vastly different from this product cycle aside from the TL being extremely well received and more popular then ever.
The RL is also NOT just a fancy or powerful awd Accord. The RL and Accord do not share any bodypanels or any interior peices, they do not share the same suspension, drivetrain, engine, or transmission. The only real thing they share is a basic platform and the RL platform is modified, not the exact same as the Accords. If people think sharing a basic platform means the car is the same as any other car on that platform then you need to do some more research of what a basic platform is and that you can build a totally different type of vehicle off of the same general platform. You can say the TSX is just a more luxurious/upscale EuroAccord because they are very similar cars and look very alike inside and out aside from a few details. The RL does not look anything like a Honda Accord inside or out, they are totally different and drive different.
The Supra and SC400/SC300 were built on the same basic platform. The Supra is not just a faster sportier SC400 and the SC400 is not just fancier more luxurious Supra. They are totally different cars. If people think they are generally the same vehicle minus some differnces just because they share the same basic platform then people really don't know much about cars and what a basic platform is and that you can make totally different vehicles that drive differently even though they are based on the same basic platform. The Supra is a very high performance fast sports car/GT that handles extremely well and can go head to head with 911s, Ferraris, NSXs, Skylines, at the time and today were the original SC400 was a plush heavy luxury coupe that did not handle very well nor was it fast. It could not perform anywhere near a Supra turbo and was a totally different car. The Supra is one of the most highly sought after used sports cars and is a legend and commands insane prices sometimes more then the original price and has a huge cult following where the original SC300/SC400 is generally not that sought after and does not command very high prices as the modern competition has surpased it in performance/luxury. There are still few sports cars out that can compete with the Supra Turbo. Both were two door cars on the same basic platform but were totally different other then sharing a basic platform.
The Infiniti J30 and Nissan 300ZX were both based on the same basic platform yet were 2 completely different cars. The J30 was not just a 4 door 300zx since they were based on the same platform. The MDX and Accord are on the same basic platform but are 2 completely different cars that ride and drive completely different. Just because 2 cars share basic platforms does not mean they are going to be just like each other. The RL does not drive anything like the Accord. It drives and handles like a luxury/sport sedan. There was no torque steer when I pushed the RL in the corners like a noticed with the Accord and it took the corners like a sport sedan not a fwd family car.
I find it funny how many people say the RL is a great car and there is nothing wrong with it or even that it compares well or maybe a little better especially the interior yet they say it is overpriced even though it costs the same or less then similiar optioned competition. The only excuse for saying its overpriced is the brand does not have as much prestige as some of the competition so for some reason it should be a alot less expensive even though it is a superior vehicle in many aspects and actually cosidered a good value when comparing it to the competition and what you get. I would think enthusiasts would be more interested in the vehicle and its design and merits instead of brand prestige and if they are going to feel important enough saying they drive an Acura instead of a Mercedes or BMW or whatever. It only proves that most luxury car shoppers are pretty uneducated car people and base their decisions on brand name and do not really compare the vehcles. If they did the less expensive RL, M, would sell alot better. The GS would sell better too but many will only consider a BMW or Merc in this category.
Like I said the reason the RL has not sold that well has nothing to do with it being a bad car or subpar compared to its competition or overpriced. The main reasons the RL has not sold as well is the last RL was not that well received nor sold well, the RL was poorly marketed, there is no choice in engine/drivetrains, there was no base model priced in the low to mid 40's, the TL is much less expensive yet offers alot for the money and has been extremely well received and has surely stolen alot of sales, there is alot of established competition in this category, many buyers will only buy certain brands in this category and not compare competition, and the styling was a little tame compared to the European competition. Acura should not drop the RL/Legend they should just learn from their mistakes and keep making a fantastic car better, eventually more and more people will buy it.
11-11-07, 10:09 PM
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
The RL is not too expensive or overpriced especially when you are comparing it to its competition. If the RL is overpriced then the GS300x, M35x, E class, A5, and 5 series are all overpriced too.
If it wasn't overpriced to the public, it would sell. It does not sell at all and has never sold well. Thus there is more supply than demand. So you must adjust your price. Guess what, Acura did, 2 ways;
-dropping the RL MSRP and taking out some content
-dealers offering up to 6k off MSRP
And it still didn't sell. It is overpriced to the market. On paper, it is fantastic. Its a good car. BUt good, can't do it when GREAT cars are around.
Actually I think all these cars are kind of overpriced at 50K as I think you should get more car for that kind of money but that is the market and what people are paying. The RL comes one way and that is loaded, there are no real options even the nav system is standard. Once you option the other cars close to what the RL has then they are all more expensive and the Europeans are alot more expensive so it is the other cars that are overpriced and not the RL. There is nothing the competition really offers over the RL aside from a choice of larger engines and a few other things unique to the brand and you will pay alot more for the larger engines. Yes you can get base rwd models from some brands with less options then the RL for a couple grand less then the RL but it does not mean the RL was ever overpriced since it came loaded. The Legend/RL was always fairly expensive especially compared to the TL or Vigor so there was nothing vastly different from this product cycle aside from the TL being extremely well received and more popular then ever.
The luxury market is about CHOICE. Even Lexus is learning that. People want to add options. People don't WANT a loaded car all the time. They want to pick and choice things.
The RL is also NOT just a fancy or powerful awd Accord. The RL and Accord do not share any bodypanels or any interior peices, they do not share the same suspension, drivetrain, engine, or transmission. The only real thing they share is a basic platform and the RL platform is modified, not the exact same as the Accords.
Engines are similar, if not the same 3.5 liter and they share switches etc, like Lexus/Infiniti in some cars. It is related to the Accord and it looks WAY to much like one
If people think sharing a basic platform means the car is the same as any other car on that platform then you need to do some more research of what a basic platform is and that you can build a totally different type of vehicle off of the same general platform. You can say the TSX is just a more luxurious/upscale EuroAccord because they are very similar cars and look very alike inside and out aside from a few details. The RL does not look anything like a Honda Accord inside or out, they are totally different and drive different.
Even mags say the RL looks like an Accord. The majority of people on the internet think so.You do know its a Honda Legend everywhere but here right?
The Supra and SC400/SC300 were built on the same basic platform. The Supra is not just a faster sportier SC400 and the SC400 is not just fancier more luxurious Supra. They are totally different cars.
While related, the SC 300/400 was a grandslam, huge hit for Lexus. The car won more accolades than most cars made. Why even bring it up?
If people think they are generally the same vehicle minus some differnces just because they share the same basic platform then people really don't know much about cars and what a basic platform is and that you can make totally different vehicles that drive differently even though they are based on the same basic platform. The Supra is a very high performance fast sports car/GT that handles extremely well and can go head to head with 911s, Ferraris, NSXs, Skylines, at the time and today were the original SC400 was a plush heavy luxury coupe that did not handle very well nor was it fast. It could not perform anywhere near a Supra turbo and was a totally different car. The Supra is one of the most highly sought after used sports cars and is a legend and commands insane prices sometimes more then the original price and has a huge cult following where the original SC300/SC400 is generally not that sought after and does not command very high prices as the modern competition has surpased it in performance/luxury. There are still few sports cars out that can compete with the Supra Turbo. Both were two door cars on the same basic platform but were totally different other then sharing a basic platform.
The Infiniti J30 and Nissan 300ZX were both based on the same basic platform yet were 2 completely different cars. The J30 was not just a 4 door 300zx since they were based on the same platform. The MDX and Accord are on the same basic platform but are 2 completely different cars that ride and drive completely different. Just because 2 cars share basic platforms does not mean they are going to be just like each other. The RL does not drive anything like the Accord. It drives and handles like a luxury/sport sedan. There was no torque steer when I pushed the RL in the corners like a noticed with the Accord and it took the corners like a sport sedan not a fwd family car.
I find it funny how many people say the RL is a great car and there is nothing wrong with it or even that it compares well or maybe a little better especially the interior yet they say it is overpriced even though it costs the same or less then similiar optioned competition. The only excuse for saying its overpriced is the brand does not have as much prestige as some of the competition so for some reason it should be a alot less expensive even though it is a superior vehicle in many aspects and actually cosidered a good value when comparing it to the competition and what you get. I would think enthusiasts would be more interested in the vehicle and its design and merits instead of brand prestige and if they are going to feel important enough saying they drive an Acura instead of a Mercedes or BMW or whatever. It only proves that most luxury car shoppers are pretty uneducated car people and base their decisions on brand name and do not really compare the vehcles. If they did the less expensive RL, M, would sell alot better. The GS would sell better too but many will only consider a BMW or Merc in this category.
Like I said the reason the RL has not sold that well has nothing to do with it being a bad car or subpar compared to its competition or overpriced. The main reasons the RL has not sold as well is the last RL was not that well received nor sold well, the RL was poorly marketed, there is no choice in engine/drivetrains, there was no base model priced in the low to mid 40's, the TL is much less expensive yet offers alot for the money and has been extremely well received and has surely stolen alot of sales, there is alot of established competition in this category, many buyers will only buy certain brands in this category and not compare competition, and the styling was a little tame compared to the European competition. Acura should not drop the RL/Legend they should just learn from their mistakes and keep making a fantastic car better, eventually more and more people will buy it.
If it wasn't overpriced to the public, it would sell. It does not sell at all and has never sold well. Thus there is more supply than demand. So you must adjust your price. Guess what, Acura did, 2 ways;
-dropping the RL MSRP and taking out some content
-dealers offering up to 6k off MSRP
And it still didn't sell. It is overpriced to the market. On paper, it is fantastic. Its a good car. BUt good, can't do it when GREAT cars are around.
Actually I think all these cars are kind of overpriced at 50K as I think you should get more car for that kind of money but that is the market and what people are paying. The RL comes one way and that is loaded, there are no real options even the nav system is standard. Once you option the other cars close to what the RL has then they are all more expensive and the Europeans are alot more expensive so it is the other cars that are overpriced and not the RL. There is nothing the competition really offers over the RL aside from a choice of larger engines and a few other things unique to the brand and you will pay alot more for the larger engines. Yes you can get base rwd models from some brands with less options then the RL for a couple grand less then the RL but it does not mean the RL was ever overpriced since it came loaded. The Legend/RL was always fairly expensive especially compared to the TL or Vigor so there was nothing vastly different from this product cycle aside from the TL being extremely well received and more popular then ever.
The luxury market is about CHOICE. Even Lexus is learning that. People want to add options. People don't WANT a loaded car all the time. They want to pick and choice things.
The RL is also NOT just a fancy or powerful awd Accord. The RL and Accord do not share any bodypanels or any interior peices, they do not share the same suspension, drivetrain, engine, or transmission. The only real thing they share is a basic platform and the RL platform is modified, not the exact same as the Accords.
Engines are similar, if not the same 3.5 liter and they share switches etc, like Lexus/Infiniti in some cars. It is related to the Accord and it looks WAY to much like one
If people think sharing a basic platform means the car is the same as any other car on that platform then you need to do some more research of what a basic platform is and that you can build a totally different type of vehicle off of the same general platform. You can say the TSX is just a more luxurious/upscale EuroAccord because they are very similar cars and look very alike inside and out aside from a few details. The RL does not look anything like a Honda Accord inside or out, they are totally different and drive different.
Even mags say the RL looks like an Accord. The majority of people on the internet think so.You do know its a Honda Legend everywhere but here right?
The Supra and SC400/SC300 were built on the same basic platform. The Supra is not just a faster sportier SC400 and the SC400 is not just fancier more luxurious Supra. They are totally different cars.
While related, the SC 300/400 was a grandslam, huge hit for Lexus. The car won more accolades than most cars made. Why even bring it up?
If people think they are generally the same vehicle minus some differnces just because they share the same basic platform then people really don't know much about cars and what a basic platform is and that you can make totally different vehicles that drive differently even though they are based on the same basic platform. The Supra is a very high performance fast sports car/GT that handles extremely well and can go head to head with 911s, Ferraris, NSXs, Skylines, at the time and today were the original SC400 was a plush heavy luxury coupe that did not handle very well nor was it fast. It could not perform anywhere near a Supra turbo and was a totally different car. The Supra is one of the most highly sought after used sports cars and is a legend and commands insane prices sometimes more then the original price and has a huge cult following where the original SC300/SC400 is generally not that sought after and does not command very high prices as the modern competition has surpased it in performance/luxury. There are still few sports cars out that can compete with the Supra Turbo. Both were two door cars on the same basic platform but were totally different other then sharing a basic platform.
The Infiniti J30 and Nissan 300ZX were both based on the same basic platform yet were 2 completely different cars. The J30 was not just a 4 door 300zx since they were based on the same platform. The MDX and Accord are on the same basic platform but are 2 completely different cars that ride and drive completely different. Just because 2 cars share basic platforms does not mean they are going to be just like each other. The RL does not drive anything like the Accord. It drives and handles like a luxury/sport sedan. There was no torque steer when I pushed the RL in the corners like a noticed with the Accord and it took the corners like a sport sedan not a fwd family car.
I find it funny how many people say the RL is a great car and there is nothing wrong with it or even that it compares well or maybe a little better especially the interior yet they say it is overpriced even though it costs the same or less then similiar optioned competition. The only excuse for saying its overpriced is the brand does not have as much prestige as some of the competition so for some reason it should be a alot less expensive even though it is a superior vehicle in many aspects and actually cosidered a good value when comparing it to the competition and what you get. I would think enthusiasts would be more interested in the vehicle and its design and merits instead of brand prestige and if they are going to feel important enough saying they drive an Acura instead of a Mercedes or BMW or whatever. It only proves that most luxury car shoppers are pretty uneducated car people and base their decisions on brand name and do not really compare the vehcles. If they did the less expensive RL, M, would sell alot better. The GS would sell better too but many will only consider a BMW or Merc in this category.
Like I said the reason the RL has not sold that well has nothing to do with it being a bad car or subpar compared to its competition or overpriced. The main reasons the RL has not sold as well is the last RL was not that well received nor sold well, the RL was poorly marketed, there is no choice in engine/drivetrains, there was no base model priced in the low to mid 40's, the TL is much less expensive yet offers alot for the money and has been extremely well received and has surely stolen alot of sales, there is alot of established competition in this category, many buyers will only buy certain brands in this category and not compare competition, and the styling was a little tame compared to the European competition. Acura should not drop the RL/Legend they should just learn from their mistakes and keep making a fantastic car better, eventually more and more people will buy it.
There was so much in your post, I can't even reply to all
IMO, you are letting pro-Honda emotion dictate your thoughts on the car. While I am a Lexus guy, I cannot tell you or anyone the 3GS is a grandslam or even a homerun for Lexus. It has areas it needs to improve upon. Your post makes it seem like the car is just perfect and people are making a huge mistake. Its the other way around.
11-12-07, 03:42 AM
#79
Lexus Fanatic
It could also be that Acura is not trying to be the sales leader but instead make a healthy profit by NOT competing directly with the others. After all, GM and Ford are selling plenty of vehicles and still losing money hand over fist. It's not all about # of cars sold. Look at the luxury clothing/accessories brands Bally and Escada. They're not in every mall, they don't flaunt themselves with flamboyant print campaigns, and they don't lavish stars with free items for the supposed exposure. Instead, they produce finer quality products than the better-known competition, and make a pretty penny doing it by appealing to consumers who are sophisticated enough not to need patterns of LV's or G's all over their stuff.
And, as far as huge numbers alone, look what it has done to Toyota.....knocked it it out of first place in quality among auto manufacturers, down to third or fourth, behind Honda/Acura and Subaru.
11-12-07, 03:53 AM
#80
Lexus Fanatic
The present RL is far different from the top-line car Acura was building 10 years ago....which was essentially a FWD Japanese Buick. It is much better-handling, firmer-riding, has AWD traction (one of the best AWD systems in the world), a powerful V6 almost to V8 standards, a mirror-like paint job, and the sheet metal and hardware of a tank.
Your post makes it seem like the car is just perfect and people are making a huge mistake. Its the other way around.
True, one can argue that $50,000 BMW's and Mercedes products DO sell, despite the unreliability of their electronics, but there you are talking about a different class of people. Those who buy RWD BMW and Mercedes products would probably not be interested in an AWD RL....and vice-versa. BMW's, of course, are primarily sport/luxury sedans. Mercedes is primarily a luxury/safety-mobile. The RL is more of a well-rounded car that does many things very well but is not huge standout in anything except perhaps the quality of its interior hardware.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-12-07 at 03:57 AM.
11-12-07, 06:26 AM
#81
Lexus Champion
I disagree with those who say the RL has nothing "good" going for it. In fact, from an objective point of view (performance, features, build quality, etc.), it hands the competition (GS, M, 5, E) their lunch. It is in subjective factors ("boring" styling, brand prestige, etc.) that the RL suffers.
And perhaps we should all stop trying to force Acura to fit the mold the Germans set up, with the 3-5-7 or C-E-S lineups. Even Lexus has two models (ES and IS) at the bottom end to appeal to different kinds of buyers.
It could also be that Acura is not trying to be the sales leader but instead make a healthy profit by NOT competing directly with the others. After all, GM and Ford are selling plenty of vehicles and still losing money hand over fist. It's not all about # of cars sold. Look at the luxury clothing/accessories brands Bally and Escada. They're not in every mall, they don't flaunt themselves with flamboyant print campaigns, and they don't lavish stars with free items for the supposed exposure. Instead, they produce finer quality products than the better-known competition, and make a pretty penny doing it by appealing to consumers who are sophisticated enough not to need patterns of LV's or G's all over their stuff.
And perhaps we should all stop trying to force Acura to fit the mold the Germans set up, with the 3-5-7 or C-E-S lineups. Even Lexus has two models (ES and IS) at the bottom end to appeal to different kinds of buyers.
It could also be that Acura is not trying to be the sales leader but instead make a healthy profit by NOT competing directly with the others. After all, GM and Ford are selling plenty of vehicles and still losing money hand over fist. It's not all about # of cars sold. Look at the luxury clothing/accessories brands Bally and Escada. They're not in every mall, they don't flaunt themselves with flamboyant print campaigns, and they don't lavish stars with free items for the supposed exposure. Instead, they produce finer quality products than the better-known competition, and make a pretty penny doing it by appealing to consumers who are sophisticated enough not to need patterns of LV's or G's all over their stuff.
I think a good point has been brought out--Acura's flagship car is still only comptetive with the lower end choice of other "executive" sedans--the GS350, the M35, MB E350, etc. They can't even say that their car is the best in class, much less a world class sedan.
Take the Lexus LS 460--is it the best? I don't know, probably not. BUT, to help market a buzz about the car, they do that auto parking system. How well does it work? Does any one really use it? Who knows--but EVERYONE saw it. It was on the Today show, it was on superbowl commercials. There was a thread in the IS section where people would ask owners if they bought the car that parks itself, because they had no clue about different models.
Acura has NO BUZZ like that about any of its sedans. I think most people would have no idea what an RL was when it pulled up next to them.
And this is Acura's flagship car.
11-12-07, 08:08 AM
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm not sure I follow you here, Mike. What are you referring to? The present RL is far different from the top-line car Acura was building 10 years ago....which was essentially a FWD Japanese Buick. It is much better-handling, firmer-riding, has AWD traction (one of the best AWD systems in the world), a powerful V6 almost to V8 standards, a mirror-like paint job, and the sheet metal and hardware of a tank.
Yes, it is far different and I've acknowledged that its their most technological car. I say they still haven't learned b/c the car sells just as well in 2007 as it did in 1996.
Well, not necessarily a "mistake". Everyone's finances are different......not everyone has $50,000 just sitting around burning a hole in their pockets. Even I, who probably COULD afford a new RL if I wanted one bad enough, feel that is just too much $$$ to sink into a new car.
Well people have no issue dropping $50,000 on a 5/GS or E class and now Infiniti M35/45. Outside the MDX, no Acura over $40,000 has ever sold or been well recieved by the public (and anyone can sell SUVs).
True, one can argue that $50,000 BMW's and Mercedes products DO sell, despite the unreliability of their electronics, but there you are talking about a different class of people. Those who buy RWD BMW and Mercedes products would probably not be interested in an AWD RL....and vice-versa. BMW's, of course, are primarily sport/luxury sedans. Mercedes is primarily a luxury/safety-mobile. The RL is more of a well-rounded car that does many things very well but is not huge standout in anything except perhaps the quality of its interior hardware.
The present RL is far different from the top-line car Acura was building 10 years ago....which was essentially a FWD Japanese Buick. It is much better-handling, firmer-riding, has AWD traction (one of the best AWD systems in the world), a powerful V6 almost to V8 standards, a mirror-like paint job, and the sheet metal and hardware of a tank. Yes, it is far different and I've acknowledged that its their most technological car. I say they still haven't learned b/c the car sells just as well in 2007 as it did in 1996.
Well, not necessarily a "mistake". Everyone's finances are different......not everyone has $50,000 just sitting around burning a hole in their pockets. Even I, who probably COULD afford a new RL if I wanted one bad enough, feel that is just too much $$$ to sink into a new car.
Well people have no issue dropping $50,000 on a 5/GS or E class and now Infiniti M35/45. Outside the MDX, no Acura over $40,000 has ever sold or been well recieved by the public (and anyone can sell SUVs).
True, one can argue that $50,000 BMW's and Mercedes products DO sell, despite the unreliability of their electronics, but there you are talking about a different class of people. Those who buy RWD BMW and Mercedes products would probably not be interested in an AWD RL....and vice-versa. BMW's, of course, are primarily sport/luxury sedans. Mercedes is primarily a luxury/safety-mobile. The RL is more of a well-rounded car that does many things very well but is not huge standout in anything except perhaps the quality of its interior hardware.
Alas, I am quite TIRED of the RL getting BEAT UP on every car forum, its old and redundant. Its like people talking about GM failing or how the VW Phaeton or Infiniti Q45 stunk. We all know it, its old news, let us all move on. People LOVE to pick on the Acura RL.
11-12-07, 01:12 PM
#83
Lexus Fanatic
Its obvious since 1996, they haven't learned much of anything with this car.
There was so much in your post, I can't even reply to all IMO, you are letting pro-Honda emotion dictate your thoughts on the car. While I am a Lexus guy, I cannot tell you or anyone the 3GS is a grandslam or even a homerun for Lexus. It has areas it needs to improve upon.
Your post makes it seem like the car is just perfect and people are making a huge mistake. Its the other way around.
There was so much in your post, I can't even reply to all
IMO, you are letting pro-Honda emotion dictate your thoughts on the car. While I am a Lexus guy, I cannot tell you or anyone the 3GS is a grandslam or even a homerun for Lexus. It has areas it needs to improve upon. Your post makes it seem like the car is just perfect and people are making a huge mistake. Its the other way around.
I do generally like Honda/Acura but I will not blindly defend them, if they come out with something I don't like or do something I don't like I will be the first to come down hard on them which I have done in the past, I critisized the RL a little when first seeing pictures of it and was a bit underwelmed until I sat and drove it and compared it to the competition, after that I really liked the car.
I don't think the RL is perfect as I don't think any car out is really perfect. I would have like to see the RL a little longer and sleeker, it should have had a more powerful turbo option as well as a v-8/v-10 option, it and all cars in this category should have more content standard like power heated.cooled messaging front and rear seats, it should have had more interior wood colors and options like a light birds eye maple that was featured on a RL at a car show. It should have used a rwd platform to offer a rwd only model mainly just to shut critics up.
To answer your previous replies, I have to ask first what car is fantastic or GREAT in this class? The 5 series, it drives the best and has the sportiest feel but it also has a horribly cheap and plain dull interior that the RL and most others puts to shame, the interior does not look like a 50K lux car and you also have that stupid i Drive to screw around with as well as spotty reliability. The exterior is odd looking and not very good looking.
The A5 is nice but not really any nicer then the RL and is expensive to maintain, it is based off a fwd platform too, and has never sold that well.
The GS is not GREAT and has received many lukewarm reviews, alot of people on CL don't really care for it and feel the previous gen was better and are a little dissapointed , it doesn't have a nicer interior nor does it drive any better then the RL, I don't like the look and have personally witnessed many mistake it for a altima or maxima, the GS350x is also now on the not recommended list of Consumer Reports as it is having some reliability problems. The GS is selling below expectations and being sold at pretty low prices now but it is still pretty nice in many aspects.
The M is nice and is probrably the sportiest your going to get compared to the 5 series but it has some plain angles and looks alot like a nissan but I still like this car and would highly consider it, it is not really selling that well either.
That leaves us to the E class which I admit probrably out of all has the most going for it including prestige, luxury look inside and out, and aspiring models like the AMG. Everytime I see a new E class I know its a luxury car from a luxury brand, it just has the look. The interior is well done although there is some cheap bits here and there. Unfortunately this car has been plagued with reliability/quality problems and would most likely be a difficult car to own unless you were lucky and got one that did not have alot of problems down the road. You also have the AMG models through its cycle that put out amazing numbers and seem to be a great package. It is way overpriced and unreliable which means I really would not consider one and I don't think its GREAT but I can see why it sells so well.
None of these vehicles are really Great and none are really worth 50K to me especially considering lesser priced lux cars and even family cars have almost everything these cars have. Car for car the RL competes just as well as them. Some drive and feel sportier and others look more expensive but I can't say any are superior or should command higher prices.
The reason the RL has not sold that well is not because its overpriced, Acura has lowered the price and is offering good deals and it is still not selling any better so that is not the reason. There are other reasons I have stated, none of which has anything to do with the car being subpar or too expensive.
I brought the SC and Supra up becuase they are 2 totally different cars that share the same basic platform. They may be related but it does not mean they are almost the same, same with the Accord and RL.
11-12-07, 03:47 PM
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Seems like the general consensus here on CL is that to understand the RL, you must have experience with it. Reading magazines does not count as experience. Those who have driven the RL thoroughly clearly understand that it is probably the best overall car in this class.
I don't like to join discussions which involve cars that I own in order to avoid others from thinking I'm biased, but a lot of people here have already said everything I would have said anyways. Having dealt with pretty much all cars in this class while shopping and now owning the RL, I am another to vouch that this car really is best in class IMO.
Anyone who thinks the RL is overpriced should option out any other car in it's class and then say which car is overpriced. As some have already said, the RL's problem isn't its $50,000 price tag, as people currently and in the past have paid over $40,000 for an Acura (in large numbers too). The last Legend was selling at over $40k and people were snatching them left and right. Keep in mind, $40k+ ten years ago IS NOT the same as $40k plus today. Additionally, people are paying $45k+ on average for the MDX. Even the NSX sold well for it's first few years but with a lack of updates and the competition upping the ante, sales rapidly dropped. Like UDel and others have said, price is one of the last things that is going against the RL.
I don't like to join discussions which involve cars that I own in order to avoid others from thinking I'm biased, but a lot of people here have already said everything I would have said anyways. Having dealt with pretty much all cars in this class while shopping and now owning the RL, I am another to vouch that this car really is best in class IMO.
Anyone who thinks the RL is overpriced should option out any other car in it's class and then say which car is overpriced. As some have already said, the RL's problem isn't its $50,000 price tag, as people currently and in the past have paid over $40,000 for an Acura (in large numbers too). The last Legend was selling at over $40k and people were snatching them left and right. Keep in mind, $40k+ ten years ago IS NOT the same as $40k plus today. Additionally, people are paying $45k+ on average for the MDX. Even the NSX sold well for it's first few years but with a lack of updates and the competition upping the ante, sales rapidly dropped. Like UDel and others have said, price is one of the last things that is going against the RL.
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