2008 Accord Cpe V6 VS Camry SE V6
11-26-07, 07:22 PM
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2008 Accord Cpe V6 VS Camry SE V6
I'm looking at these 2 cars very closely... i'm really torn. Basically the accord wins in the looks and interior quality department, while the camry wins on a cost and practicality stand point.
Anyone else has a similar decision in the works? I think the accord sedan is ugly, the Nissan altima and Chevy Malibu aren't worthy, and the Used options I've looked at are eaither expensive to insure (IS300), or don't provide a good enough power to gas mileage ratio (GS300).
The accord is expensive if you want the V6, 28,900... but the camry is really vanilla... who else has weighed the pro's/cons of these cars? Ideally i'd spend $25k
Anyone else has a similar decision in the works? I think the accord sedan is ugly, the Nissan altima and Chevy Malibu aren't worthy, and the Used options I've looked at are eaither expensive to insure (IS300), or don't provide a good enough power to gas mileage ratio (GS300).
The accord is expensive if you want the V6, 28,900... but the camry is really vanilla... who else has weighed the pro's/cons of these cars? Ideally i'd spend $25k
11-26-07, 07:48 PM
#3
Comparo w/ Sedan, Not Coupe
2008 Honda Accord vs 2007 Toyota Camry
Battle of the benchmarks: Honda's all-new accord aims to dethrone our 2007 car of the year
By Ron Kiino
Photography by Brian Vance
In the automotive world, there's no shortage of archrivals-two major players that battle for supremacy, day in and day out. Whether it's for sales titles, track times, or magazine comparison-test victories, being number one is an automaker's ultimate goal. From Camaro versus Mustang and Evo versus Sti to S-Class versus 7 Series and Supra versus Z, these combats of style, power, and agility have defined competitors throughout history. Today, no clash is more significant than...Accord versus Camry? You bet.Over the past decade, the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry have waged war over "bestseller" bragging rights, with each moving around 400,000 per year. Camry has taken the title nine of the last 10 years, but Accord has always been right on its tail, even grabbing the title in 2001. For greater perspective, since Toyota introduced the Camry to the U.S. in 1983, it has sold nearly seven million copies; the Accord, which bowed in 1976, has found almost 10 million buyers.
Last year when Toyota introduced its seventh-generation Camry, the SE V-6 version -- mightiest of the lineup -- promptly laid claim as the most powerful (268 horses) and quickest (0 to 60 mph in 6.1 seconds and the quarter mile in 14.6 at 97.0 mph) Camry ever sold in America. Not only did it possess more horsepower than a Porsche Cayman, but it was also just as hasty to 60 and through the quarter mile as a 300-horse 2007 Jaguar XK. The new benchmark? Absolutely.
Honda's Accord, then in the final year of its seventh generation, was a stellar sedan in its own right. But in light of the new Camry, its age was beginning to show. As a company that prides itself on innovation, Honda is never happy when its most important model can be described as aged. For 2008, the tide has changed, as the only thing old about the Accord is its name.
Introduced to the media in Boston, the all-new Accord is fresher than an heirloom tomato at Whole Foods. Every aspect of the eighth-generation car, from styling and interior to engine and chassis, has been reworked. The hybrid has been dropped, as have LX trims for V-6-powered cars; the coupe gets sexy styling and an available six-speed manual (see sidebar), and there are two more-powerful four-cylinder options for the sedan (see sidebar). Rather than simply report our general impressions of the new Honda, we thought it wiser to commandeer a topline EX-L V-6 and pit it against the aforementioned king of the class, the Camry SE V-6. With a bit of finagling, some secrecy, and a 4 a.m. wakeup call, we managed to squeeze in a full day of comparative driving around Beantown.
Accord versus Camry. And may the best benchmark win.
The Challenger
"This looks like a BMW," says the valet at the Four Seasons as I exit the silver Accord. He should know, as he parks plenty of Bavaria's finest at the swanky hotel near Copley Square. Photog Vance agrees and, as he points out the character line that spans the length of the body as well as the Hofmeister kink in the C-pillar, I, too, begin seeing hints of the 3 and the 5 Series. There are traces of the Acura RL also, but overall the theme is quite Teutonic.
Armed with the more grownup facade -- the pushed out, raised nose; the six-point grille with chrome surround; the large, rakish headlamps; and prominent fender flares result in a more refined look -- the new Accord has, no surprise, grown up in size. With a passenger volume of 106.0 cubic feet (in the base car) and a trunk that swallows 14.0 cubic feet, the Accord is now classified as a large sedan, placing it in the same class as the Ford Taurus and the Toyota Avalon. Compared with the 2007 model, the 2008 is 3.2 inches longer, 1.1 inches wider, and 0.9 inch taller. Further, the wheelbase, at 110.2 inches, is 2.3 inches greater than its predecessor's and 0.9 inch longer than the Camry's.
The benefits of the larger body manifest in increases of nearly every interior dimension, notably 0.7 extra inch of front headroom, 0.4 inch more rear legroom, and 1.3 inches of additional front shoulder room. With the more capacious cockpit comes more freedom to enjoy the richer interior, which, in our EX-L tester, was fitted with leather upholstery, heated and power front seats, dual-zone automatic climate control, and a 270-watt audio system with XM Satellite Radio. Our tester also had the available nav system -- now controlled solely by a dash-mounted rotary **** a la the RL -- which brings Bluetooth capability to boot. Per Honda standards, interior quality is a step above the previous iteration's, and fit and finish are top notch.
While being bigger, the body is stronger and sleeker. By utilizing more high-strength steel (48 percent versus 39 for the 2007), a unit-body frame rail system that positions the rails above and inside the floor, and Honda's Advanced Compatibility Engineering body structure, which helps disperse energy and protect passengers in a frontal collision, the Accord boasts a 20-percent jump in torsional rigidity. Naturally, front, side, and curtain airbags are standard, as are active front head restraints. So when it comes to the all-important crash-test scores from NHTSA and IIHS, Honda projects the Accord will receive the highest. No projections are needed in the wind tunnel, though, as the Accord has already bettered its performance due to a drop in the coefficient of drag from 0.34 to 0.31.
The control-arm front suspension-an Accord hallmark-carries over, albeit with revised geometry, anti-roll bars, and spring and damper rates as well as the addition of a tower brace for added stiffness. The big news lies within the rear suspension, where an "in-wheel" multilink design supersedes the previous control-arm setup. Composed of an upper A-arm, two tubular lower links, and a single toe-control link, the rear suspension, according to Honda, provides 40-percent-greater lateral rigidity and improved ride, handling, and braking. Aiding in handling are a 10mm-lower center of gravity, a new Variable Gear Ratio steering system, and slightly wider 225/50R17 Michelin tires, which get stopping orders from four-wheel disc brakes with electronic force distribution and brake assist.
Those chassis enhancements will come in handy when prodding the 268 horsepower from the new 3.5-liter V-6. Up 24 horses and 37 pound-feet of torque (now at 248) over the previous 3.0-liter, the 3.5 features i-VTEC variable valve timing and, similar to the Odyssey minivan, Variable Cylinder Management. Unlike VCM in the Odyssey, though, which can switch only from six- to three-cylinder power, the Accord's system operates in six-, four-, or three-cylinder mode, the middle by deactivating one cylinder per bank and for, say, driving on the freeway at high speeds. With three-mode VCM, the Accord V-6, mated to a five-speed automatic, will achieve estimated fuel economy of 19/29 mpg-markedly superior to the 3.0 liter's 18/26 (2008 methods) -- while running on regular gas and meeting ULEV-2 and, in CARB states, PZEV standards.
The Incumbent
As with all incumbents, there's not much new to report on the Camry. If you're a reader of this magazine, you know its resume. Not only did the redesigned seventh-gen model win our coveted 2007 Car of the Year award, but in an April 2006 comparison test, the hybrid version spanked its greenie foe, the Accord Hybrid, and in a November 2006 comparo, an SE V-6 handed walking papers to three sporty rivals -- Chevy Malibu SS, Mitsubishi Galant Ralliart, and Nissan Altima SE-R. Toyota's top dog was also America's bestselling car in 2006, and, through the first half of 2007, it's once again leading the pack, on pace to sell over 480,000 units. Not bad for a year's work.
For this guerilla get-together, we rang the friendly folks at Toyota P.R. and were delighted to learn that a well-equipped SE V-6 resided on the East Coast. The most performance-oriented Camry available, it was the perfect choice for a rendezvous with its counterpart from Honda. Armed with identical horsepower and torque outputs as the Accord's V-6, the Camry's 3.5-liter delivers 19/28 mpg and ULEV-2 emissions. Though not as green as Honda's PZEV engine, Toyota's 24-valve mill provides virtually identical fuel economy, thanks in large part to the extra cog in its six-speed automatic, which, unlike the Accord's five-speed, offers a sport-oriented manual mode. The sport theme carries over to the chassis, too, with stiffer springs and dampers, larger anti-roll bars, a 10mm-lower ride height, 17-inch wheels, and body reinforcements, relative to lesser Camrys.
The Benchmark
Park these two sales giants next to each other and the overall appearances are similar. Both feature snubbed noses, more a byproduct of today's requisite pedestrian crash standards than a concession to boldness. In profile, the Accord's character line gives it more of an aggressive, fast-forward look, while from the rear each seems relatively drab, although the Camry's body kit and spoiler add some pizzazz. Nevertheless, the Accord's "sharp and strong" styling theme is just that in light of the Camry, giving it a richer, more distinguished body. Advantage: Accord.
Inside, the slightly larger Honda (101.0 cubic feet in our sunroof-equipped EX versus 100.0 cubic feet for the Camry) feels airier than the Toyota. Each offers plenty of room for four and decent space for five, but it's the Accord you'll want for impressing the in-laws. Sure, it's the added area, but more so it's the Honda's upscale level of luxury-the soft, gathered leather, the silver-rimmed gauges, and the driver-seat power lumbar support-that places it a smidge above the Toyota. Advantage: Accord.
With power and torque ratings effectively a wash, not to mention practically identical fuel economy, the two 3.5-liter engines are about as equal as they come. The Accord's PZEV rating in CARB states obviously trumps the lack of same in the Camry, but the Toyota's six-speed automatic, replete with the seamless and swift manual mode, outclasses the Accord's five-speed, which seems as refined but misses the connectedness of full manual control. It's a close call here, but powertrains cross the finish line in a tie. Advantage: Push
The roads around Boston aren't known for buttery surfaces, as harsh winters, humid summers, and heavy traffic render them cracked, rippled, and potholed. While not ideal for residents, these conditions are idyllic for testing ride compliance. The Toyota, the enthusiast's example of the Camry lineup, feels noticeably stiffer than the Accord, transmitting more road irregularities and feeling a bit less forgiving. Nonetheless, the SE's all-strut suspension is still well damped and not rough by any means.
The Honda, on the other hand, strikes a better balance between providing tactile road feel and eliminating harshness, a compromise that, as with the BMW 3 Series, the Accord seems to have mastered. Presented with bends in the road, the Camry quickly makes it known it's the hungrier of the two, devouring turn after turn with minimal fuss and surprisingly brisk speed. If Toyota claimed its TRD racing arm had created the family man's dream driver, you'd believe it. The Accord, while not as lively through the turns as the SE, still feels buttoned down and competent in the curves, offering crisp, communicative steering, and the flattest handling traits of any Accord sedan to date. Advantage: Push.
Donning sportier duds, a ritzier cabin, and a powertrain and chassis on par with those of the Camry, the all-new Accord edges ahead to take Round One of this epic battle. Still the number-one contender, the Camry will no doubt be back for Round Two, perhaps in hybrid form, when the rumored Accord diesel makes its debut. For now, though, the Accord reigns as the best of the best-the benchmark.
1st Place: Honda Accord EX-L V-6
Sportier dress, ritzier cabin, and powertrain and chassis on par with any of its foes.
2nd Place: Toyota Camry SE V-6
Best of the rest, this player will certainly return to fight another day. Perhaps in a hybrid persona?
25 or 6 to 4
If your budget tops out at $25,000 and a V-6 doesn't make sense when a four-cylinder will suffice, then an Accord sedan with a 16-valve engine presents a compelling case. Offered in LX, LX-P, EX, and EX-L trims, and with pricing estimated at around 2007 levels ($21,000 to $24,000), the Accord sedan gets two new 2.4-liter four-bangers, one producing 177 horsepower at 6500 rpm and 161 pound-feet at 4300 (LX trims) and the other, thanks to a tweaked Powertrain Control Module and a high-flow muffler, 190 horsepower at 7000 and 162 pound-feet at 4400 (EX versions). A five-speed manual or automatic can be paired with either engine, both of which run on regular gas and meet ULEV-2 or PZEV emission standards.
With the previous-generation's Value Package trim gone, the LX takes the entry-level title, but there's nothing "entry level" about it. Standard features include 16-inch wheels with 215/60R16 Dunlop rubber, four-wheel disc brakes with ABS and EBD, stability and traction control, active front head restraints, power mirrors, and steering-wheel-mounted audio and cruise-control buttons. The LX-P adds alloy wheels, a power driver's seat, an alarm, and a chrome exhaust tip.
The spicier EX has 17-inch alloys, power moonroof, six-CD changer, heated mirrors, driver-seat power lumbar support, and a front tower brace with sportier suspension tuning. The EX-L incorporates leather-covered seats (heated front), a 270-watt audio system, dual-zone auto climate control, and an available nav system with Bluetooth--anyone looking for an Acura TSX with more room and a few grand on the hood?
One two-door punch
Whether your nest is empty or you simply value style over utility, the Accord coupe is the next best Honda to a Civic Si. Sharing only sideview mirrors and door handles with the sedan, the coupe's sassy sheetmetal drapes over a 107.9-inch wheelbase, 2.3 inches shorter than the sedan's but 2.8 inches longer than the 2007 coupe's. A near mirror image to the Accord Coupe Concept that wowed the press and public at January's Detroit auto show, the new coupe is 3.1 inches longer, 1.4 inches wider, and 0.7 inch taller than its forebear, resulting in over an inch of extra rear legroom and over two inches of additional front shoulder room.
Honda offers the coupe in LX-S, EX, EX-L, EX-L V-6, and EX-L V-6 six-speed variations, the last (pictured) fitted with a six-speed manual trans, 18-inch wheels, and a unique 3.5-liter VTEC V-6 that comes without VCM for better low- and midrange performance. Output is identical to that of the i-VTEC VCM engine, but fuel economy drops to 17/25 mpg, and the emissions rating is solely ULEV-2. All four-cylinder trims are powered by the 190-horse engine and, because of their sportier intent, receive 17-inch alloys and a front tower brace with a tauter suspension. The last time a Honda coupe offered these levels of style and performance it wore the Prelude nameplate.
Battle of the benchmarks: Honda's all-new accord aims to dethrone our 2007 car of the year
By Ron Kiino
Photography by Brian Vance
In the automotive world, there's no shortage of archrivals-two major players that battle for supremacy, day in and day out. Whether it's for sales titles, track times, or magazine comparison-test victories, being number one is an automaker's ultimate goal. From Camaro versus Mustang and Evo versus Sti to S-Class versus 7 Series and Supra versus Z, these combats of style, power, and agility have defined competitors throughout history. Today, no clash is more significant than...Accord versus Camry? You bet.Over the past decade, the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry have waged war over "bestseller" bragging rights, with each moving around 400,000 per year. Camry has taken the title nine of the last 10 years, but Accord has always been right on its tail, even grabbing the title in 2001. For greater perspective, since Toyota introduced the Camry to the U.S. in 1983, it has sold nearly seven million copies; the Accord, which bowed in 1976, has found almost 10 million buyers.
Last year when Toyota introduced its seventh-generation Camry, the SE V-6 version -- mightiest of the lineup -- promptly laid claim as the most powerful (268 horses) and quickest (0 to 60 mph in 6.1 seconds and the quarter mile in 14.6 at 97.0 mph) Camry ever sold in America. Not only did it possess more horsepower than a Porsche Cayman, but it was also just as hasty to 60 and through the quarter mile as a 300-horse 2007 Jaguar XK. The new benchmark? Absolutely.
Honda's Accord, then in the final year of its seventh generation, was a stellar sedan in its own right. But in light of the new Camry, its age was beginning to show. As a company that prides itself on innovation, Honda is never happy when its most important model can be described as aged. For 2008, the tide has changed, as the only thing old about the Accord is its name.
Introduced to the media in Boston, the all-new Accord is fresher than an heirloom tomato at Whole Foods. Every aspect of the eighth-generation car, from styling and interior to engine and chassis, has been reworked. The hybrid has been dropped, as have LX trims for V-6-powered cars; the coupe gets sexy styling and an available six-speed manual (see sidebar), and there are two more-powerful four-cylinder options for the sedan (see sidebar). Rather than simply report our general impressions of the new Honda, we thought it wiser to commandeer a topline EX-L V-6 and pit it against the aforementioned king of the class, the Camry SE V-6. With a bit of finagling, some secrecy, and a 4 a.m. wakeup call, we managed to squeeze in a full day of comparative driving around Beantown.
Accord versus Camry. And may the best benchmark win.
The Challenger
"This looks like a BMW," says the valet at the Four Seasons as I exit the silver Accord. He should know, as he parks plenty of Bavaria's finest at the swanky hotel near Copley Square. Photog Vance agrees and, as he points out the character line that spans the length of the body as well as the Hofmeister kink in the C-pillar, I, too, begin seeing hints of the 3 and the 5 Series. There are traces of the Acura RL also, but overall the theme is quite Teutonic.
Armed with the more grownup facade -- the pushed out, raised nose; the six-point grille with chrome surround; the large, rakish headlamps; and prominent fender flares result in a more refined look -- the new Accord has, no surprise, grown up in size. With a passenger volume of 106.0 cubic feet (in the base car) and a trunk that swallows 14.0 cubic feet, the Accord is now classified as a large sedan, placing it in the same class as the Ford Taurus and the Toyota Avalon. Compared with the 2007 model, the 2008 is 3.2 inches longer, 1.1 inches wider, and 0.9 inch taller. Further, the wheelbase, at 110.2 inches, is 2.3 inches greater than its predecessor's and 0.9 inch longer than the Camry's.
The benefits of the larger body manifest in increases of nearly every interior dimension, notably 0.7 extra inch of front headroom, 0.4 inch more rear legroom, and 1.3 inches of additional front shoulder room. With the more capacious cockpit comes more freedom to enjoy the richer interior, which, in our EX-L tester, was fitted with leather upholstery, heated and power front seats, dual-zone automatic climate control, and a 270-watt audio system with XM Satellite Radio. Our tester also had the available nav system -- now controlled solely by a dash-mounted rotary **** a la the RL -- which brings Bluetooth capability to boot. Per Honda standards, interior quality is a step above the previous iteration's, and fit and finish are top notch.
While being bigger, the body is stronger and sleeker. By utilizing more high-strength steel (48 percent versus 39 for the 2007), a unit-body frame rail system that positions the rails above and inside the floor, and Honda's Advanced Compatibility Engineering body structure, which helps disperse energy and protect passengers in a frontal collision, the Accord boasts a 20-percent jump in torsional rigidity. Naturally, front, side, and curtain airbags are standard, as are active front head restraints. So when it comes to the all-important crash-test scores from NHTSA and IIHS, Honda projects the Accord will receive the highest. No projections are needed in the wind tunnel, though, as the Accord has already bettered its performance due to a drop in the coefficient of drag from 0.34 to 0.31.
The control-arm front suspension-an Accord hallmark-carries over, albeit with revised geometry, anti-roll bars, and spring and damper rates as well as the addition of a tower brace for added stiffness. The big news lies within the rear suspension, where an "in-wheel" multilink design supersedes the previous control-arm setup. Composed of an upper A-arm, two tubular lower links, and a single toe-control link, the rear suspension, according to Honda, provides 40-percent-greater lateral rigidity and improved ride, handling, and braking. Aiding in handling are a 10mm-lower center of gravity, a new Variable Gear Ratio steering system, and slightly wider 225/50R17 Michelin tires, which get stopping orders from four-wheel disc brakes with electronic force distribution and brake assist.
Those chassis enhancements will come in handy when prodding the 268 horsepower from the new 3.5-liter V-6. Up 24 horses and 37 pound-feet of torque (now at 248) over the previous 3.0-liter, the 3.5 features i-VTEC variable valve timing and, similar to the Odyssey minivan, Variable Cylinder Management. Unlike VCM in the Odyssey, though, which can switch only from six- to three-cylinder power, the Accord's system operates in six-, four-, or three-cylinder mode, the middle by deactivating one cylinder per bank and for, say, driving on the freeway at high speeds. With three-mode VCM, the Accord V-6, mated to a five-speed automatic, will achieve estimated fuel economy of 19/29 mpg-markedly superior to the 3.0 liter's 18/26 (2008 methods) -- while running on regular gas and meeting ULEV-2 and, in CARB states, PZEV standards.
The Incumbent
As with all incumbents, there's not much new to report on the Camry. If you're a reader of this magazine, you know its resume. Not only did the redesigned seventh-gen model win our coveted 2007 Car of the Year award, but in an April 2006 comparison test, the hybrid version spanked its greenie foe, the Accord Hybrid, and in a November 2006 comparo, an SE V-6 handed walking papers to three sporty rivals -- Chevy Malibu SS, Mitsubishi Galant Ralliart, and Nissan Altima SE-R. Toyota's top dog was also America's bestselling car in 2006, and, through the first half of 2007, it's once again leading the pack, on pace to sell over 480,000 units. Not bad for a year's work.
For this guerilla get-together, we rang the friendly folks at Toyota P.R. and were delighted to learn that a well-equipped SE V-6 resided on the East Coast. The most performance-oriented Camry available, it was the perfect choice for a rendezvous with its counterpart from Honda. Armed with identical horsepower and torque outputs as the Accord's V-6, the Camry's 3.5-liter delivers 19/28 mpg and ULEV-2 emissions. Though not as green as Honda's PZEV engine, Toyota's 24-valve mill provides virtually identical fuel economy, thanks in large part to the extra cog in its six-speed automatic, which, unlike the Accord's five-speed, offers a sport-oriented manual mode. The sport theme carries over to the chassis, too, with stiffer springs and dampers, larger anti-roll bars, a 10mm-lower ride height, 17-inch wheels, and body reinforcements, relative to lesser Camrys.
The Benchmark
Park these two sales giants next to each other and the overall appearances are similar. Both feature snubbed noses, more a byproduct of today's requisite pedestrian crash standards than a concession to boldness. In profile, the Accord's character line gives it more of an aggressive, fast-forward look, while from the rear each seems relatively drab, although the Camry's body kit and spoiler add some pizzazz. Nevertheless, the Accord's "sharp and strong" styling theme is just that in light of the Camry, giving it a richer, more distinguished body. Advantage: Accord.
Inside, the slightly larger Honda (101.0 cubic feet in our sunroof-equipped EX versus 100.0 cubic feet for the Camry) feels airier than the Toyota. Each offers plenty of room for four and decent space for five, but it's the Accord you'll want for impressing the in-laws. Sure, it's the added area, but more so it's the Honda's upscale level of luxury-the soft, gathered leather, the silver-rimmed gauges, and the driver-seat power lumbar support-that places it a smidge above the Toyota. Advantage: Accord.
With power and torque ratings effectively a wash, not to mention practically identical fuel economy, the two 3.5-liter engines are about as equal as they come. The Accord's PZEV rating in CARB states obviously trumps the lack of same in the Camry, but the Toyota's six-speed automatic, replete with the seamless and swift manual mode, outclasses the Accord's five-speed, which seems as refined but misses the connectedness of full manual control. It's a close call here, but powertrains cross the finish line in a tie. Advantage: Push
The roads around Boston aren't known for buttery surfaces, as harsh winters, humid summers, and heavy traffic render them cracked, rippled, and potholed. While not ideal for residents, these conditions are idyllic for testing ride compliance. The Toyota, the enthusiast's example of the Camry lineup, feels noticeably stiffer than the Accord, transmitting more road irregularities and feeling a bit less forgiving. Nonetheless, the SE's all-strut suspension is still well damped and not rough by any means.
The Honda, on the other hand, strikes a better balance between providing tactile road feel and eliminating harshness, a compromise that, as with the BMW 3 Series, the Accord seems to have mastered. Presented with bends in the road, the Camry quickly makes it known it's the hungrier of the two, devouring turn after turn with minimal fuss and surprisingly brisk speed. If Toyota claimed its TRD racing arm had created the family man's dream driver, you'd believe it. The Accord, while not as lively through the turns as the SE, still feels buttoned down and competent in the curves, offering crisp, communicative steering, and the flattest handling traits of any Accord sedan to date. Advantage: Push.
Donning sportier duds, a ritzier cabin, and a powertrain and chassis on par with those of the Camry, the all-new Accord edges ahead to take Round One of this epic battle. Still the number-one contender, the Camry will no doubt be back for Round Two, perhaps in hybrid form, when the rumored Accord diesel makes its debut. For now, though, the Accord reigns as the best of the best-the benchmark.
1st Place: Honda Accord EX-L V-6
Sportier dress, ritzier cabin, and powertrain and chassis on par with any of its foes.
2nd Place: Toyota Camry SE V-6
Best of the rest, this player will certainly return to fight another day. Perhaps in a hybrid persona?
25 or 6 to 4
If your budget tops out at $25,000 and a V-6 doesn't make sense when a four-cylinder will suffice, then an Accord sedan with a 16-valve engine presents a compelling case. Offered in LX, LX-P, EX, and EX-L trims, and with pricing estimated at around 2007 levels ($21,000 to $24,000), the Accord sedan gets two new 2.4-liter four-bangers, one producing 177 horsepower at 6500 rpm and 161 pound-feet at 4300 (LX trims) and the other, thanks to a tweaked Powertrain Control Module and a high-flow muffler, 190 horsepower at 7000 and 162 pound-feet at 4400 (EX versions). A five-speed manual or automatic can be paired with either engine, both of which run on regular gas and meet ULEV-2 or PZEV emission standards.
With the previous-generation's Value Package trim gone, the LX takes the entry-level title, but there's nothing "entry level" about it. Standard features include 16-inch wheels with 215/60R16 Dunlop rubber, four-wheel disc brakes with ABS and EBD, stability and traction control, active front head restraints, power mirrors, and steering-wheel-mounted audio and cruise-control buttons. The LX-P adds alloy wheels, a power driver's seat, an alarm, and a chrome exhaust tip.
The spicier EX has 17-inch alloys, power moonroof, six-CD changer, heated mirrors, driver-seat power lumbar support, and a front tower brace with sportier suspension tuning. The EX-L incorporates leather-covered seats (heated front), a 270-watt audio system, dual-zone auto climate control, and an available nav system with Bluetooth--anyone looking for an Acura TSX with more room and a few grand on the hood?
One two-door punch
Whether your nest is empty or you simply value style over utility, the Accord coupe is the next best Honda to a Civic Si. Sharing only sideview mirrors and door handles with the sedan, the coupe's sassy sheetmetal drapes over a 107.9-inch wheelbase, 2.3 inches shorter than the sedan's but 2.8 inches longer than the 2007 coupe's. A near mirror image to the Accord Coupe Concept that wowed the press and public at January's Detroit auto show, the new coupe is 3.1 inches longer, 1.4 inches wider, and 0.7 inch taller than its forebear, resulting in over an inch of extra rear legroom and over two inches of additional front shoulder room.
Honda offers the coupe in LX-S, EX, EX-L, EX-L V-6, and EX-L V-6 six-speed variations, the last (pictured) fitted with a six-speed manual trans, 18-inch wheels, and a unique 3.5-liter VTEC V-6 that comes without VCM for better low- and midrange performance. Output is identical to that of the i-VTEC VCM engine, but fuel economy drops to 17/25 mpg, and the emissions rating is solely ULEV-2. All four-cylinder trims are powered by the 190-horse engine and, because of their sportier intent, receive 17-inch alloys and a front tower brace with a tauter suspension. The last time a Honda coupe offered these levels of style and performance it wore the Prelude nameplate.
11-26-07, 07:58 PM
#5
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Altima... it's ok, but i hear the CVT tranny is very prone to problems. The nice thing is that i could get a V6 thats not all decked out so i could save on $$... but resale will take a hit by comparison to honda/toyota.
Malibu... yea, great reviews, but initial quality tests are worthless IMO. You have to earn a reputation for quality/refinement, and GM hasn't done that for me yet. If this car came out 2 years ago and had a good track record, i'd consider it.
11-26-07, 07:59 PM
#6
Acura TSX
Another possibility is the TSX - the non-navi version can probably be had around your price range, especially since the new one is due in half a year. The only downside that I can see is that it is smaller than the Accord/Camry and does not come in a 6 cylinder if that is what you are after.
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11-26-07, 08:09 PM
#9
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That MotorTrend review isn't quite fair, the Camry came out almost 2 years before the Accord was released, technology has advanced in some ways. The best way to see which one you like is of course to test drive them both. I really do think the new Accord does look ugly. The 6spd manual V6 coupe is worth considering though.
11-26-07, 08:17 PM
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My criteria are:
-Not obnoxious to insure, ie the IS300
-220+ HP... so V6 for the most part, i want a noticeable boost from my 96 integra LS manual tranny, which is why i need tons more HP in the Auto tranny (motorcycle injury necessitates an auto
)-27+ freeway MPG
-Prefer to spend ~25k... i just really like the accord COUPE V6... but that sticker price is killing it for me
-Not bland/monotonous... LE camry= too vanilla, and most US brands lack a quality feel on the interior... i feel that way from experience, not internet reading
Also... just remember, i'm not considering the Accord sedan, only the coupe. The sedan is ugly IMO, but the coupe is hot... weirdhow they differ so
11-26-07, 08:51 PM
#11
I wish the magazine had reviewed comparable trims instead. Honda does not have any 'sport' version to compete with the toyota camry SE. They should have done XLE vs EX, or LE vs. LX.
Honda's J-series engine has been put into a production car since 1996. It is old news compared to Toyota's new V6. But it's quite a feat for honda if they can get the same amount of power as the Camry, while still offering smoothness out of an outdated engine.
Overall it's a tossup between these two cars. They're both at the top of the their game. All it comes down to is a test drive.
11-26-07, 08:53 PM
#12
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The V6 Camry has a broader power curve, it gets the same fuel economy without resorting to cylinder deactivation a feature which isn't completely seamless. The 6MT V6 Accord's power curve might equal the Camry's but its fuel numbers are way off. Honda's 5A V6 Accord was developed to match the Camry's peak hp and torque figures to give the impression they are identical in terms of power. In reality this is not the case.
Toyota didn't develop the 3.5L GR motors to have the highest figures, they designed them with fuel economy and a wide power band. Hence why every comparison with the V6 Camry, Avalon you'll notice outstanding acceleration backed with superb fuel economy.
Camry has a die-cast motor which gives it a significantly lower weight, features a variable intake manifold. The Accord J-series simply is too old to compete. What it does offer is a SOCH layout and thanks to less moving parts you'll notice it is probably a little bit slicker.
Technically Toyota's 3.5L V6 is an amazing machine compact and quiet. Competiors are at a disadvantage since they must deal with packaging issues and sound deading matierials where Toyota doesn't.
The Accord tranny is missing a gear, I highly doubt its as intellegent, fast or smooth shifting.
Test drive the two again, you might notice the Camry has superior high-speed stability and a quieter interior. Factor in the JBL audio and actually you might prefer the Camry's interior to the Accords. But the Accord has thin A-pillars a stiched headliner and the Accord has much better interior fit and finish. Check the seats too I've never sat in the SE Camry but the seats may feel poorly supported. Also the guages in the LE and XLE Camry aren't bright since Toyota ants to limit the brighter gauges to the ES. I dunno what they are like in the SE.
from my prior ownership of the previous V6 Accord Coupe and V6 Camry the Accord's steering simply trumps the Camry's. Smaller in diameter and more meaty, not to mention I doubt Toyota knows how to deliver a sporty steering setup and sadly I doubt they even care to bother. But again I've never driven the SE Camry.
If I were in your shoes I'd test drive the two extensively, I'd suggest paying close attention to
-seats
-pedal placement
-steering
-brake feel
-interior noise
-audio
-supsension calibrations
If it were four cylinder models being compared I doubt I'd even bother looking at the Camry.
As far as the other competitors I wouldn't bother speding too much time driving them. The Mazda6 is sportier than the Accord's sedan varient not the coupes. And check its IIHS crash scores, its an inferior piece. The Malibu couldn't muster a perfect score in the IIHS frontal collision and if the frame is like the G6's and Aura's it won't take a side impact anywhere near as well. Also I suspect GM uses low grade steel in their frames leading to packing issues and excessive curb weight. The Accord actually utilizes tons of high grade steel for a stiff and lightweight structure. GM also is forced to quiet their noisy HF V6 which results in excessive weight issues Toyota and Honda altogether avoid since they addressed a root cause of a sound problem rather than applying an infeior solution.
Toyota didn't develop the 3.5L GR motors to have the highest figures, they designed them with fuel economy and a wide power band. Hence why every comparison with the V6 Camry, Avalon you'll notice outstanding acceleration backed with superb fuel economy.
Camry has a die-cast motor which gives it a significantly lower weight, features a variable intake manifold. The Accord J-series simply is too old to compete. What it does offer is a SOCH layout and thanks to less moving parts you'll notice it is probably a little bit slicker.
Technically Toyota's 3.5L V6 is an amazing machine compact and quiet. Competiors are at a disadvantage since they must deal with packaging issues and sound deading matierials where Toyota doesn't.
The Accord tranny is missing a gear, I highly doubt its as intellegent, fast or smooth shifting.
Test drive the two again, you might notice the Camry has superior high-speed stability and a quieter interior. Factor in the JBL audio and actually you might prefer the Camry's interior to the Accords. But the Accord has thin A-pillars a stiched headliner and the Accord has much better interior fit and finish. Check the seats too I've never sat in the SE Camry but the seats may feel poorly supported. Also the guages in the LE and XLE Camry aren't bright since Toyota ants to limit the brighter gauges to the ES. I dunno what they are like in the SE.
from my prior ownership of the previous V6 Accord Coupe and V6 Camry the Accord's steering simply trumps the Camry's. Smaller in diameter and more meaty, not to mention I doubt Toyota knows how to deliver a sporty steering setup and sadly I doubt they even care to bother. But again I've never driven the SE Camry.
If I were in your shoes I'd test drive the two extensively, I'd suggest paying close attention to
-seats
-pedal placement
-steering
-brake feel
-interior noise
-audio
-supsension calibrations
If it were four cylinder models being compared I doubt I'd even bother looking at the Camry.
As far as the other competitors I wouldn't bother speding too much time driving them. The Mazda6 is sportier than the Accord's sedan varient not the coupes. And check its IIHS crash scores, its an inferior piece. The Malibu couldn't muster a perfect score in the IIHS frontal collision and if the frame is like the G6's and Aura's it won't take a side impact anywhere near as well. Also I suspect GM uses low grade steel in their frames leading to packing issues and excessive curb weight. The Accord actually utilizes tons of high grade steel for a stiff and lightweight structure. GM also is forced to quiet their noisy HF V6 which results in excessive weight issues Toyota and Honda altogether avoid since they addressed a root cause of a sound problem rather than applying an infeior solution.
Last edited by Mr. Jones; 11-26-07 at 09:03 PM.
11-26-07, 09:28 PM
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for crying out loud, go to a honda dealer, tell him your debating between the 2 and the only thing holding you back is the price and see if they're willing to work with you. If it was me, I would definitely get the accord, the interior is fantastic. The 'advanced' toyota transmission kept breaking (not sure if they've fixed the issues) and build reliability has really taken a hit lately.
11-26-07, 09:40 PM
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Great post mr jones!
leedogg, i HAVE done that.. but the demand for the coupe is huge right now. No dealership is willing to go below msrp... they wouldnt budge until i mentioned AAA, then they said if i go through them, i might get $500 off.
I sent email offers to buy immediately if i could get the car for $29k OTD to 10 dealerships... all said a firm NO. MSRP on the accord v6 coupe ~ 28500
leedogg, i HAVE done that.. but the demand for the coupe is huge right now. No dealership is willing to go below msrp... they wouldnt budge until i mentioned AAA, then they said if i go through them, i might get $500 off.
I sent email offers to buy immediately if i could get the car for $29k OTD to 10 dealerships... all said a firm NO. MSRP on the accord v6 coupe ~ 28500