Ever think Drunk Driving is pushed too far?
#16
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With alcohol, if you have ingested enough to be drunk, you can't simply undo those effects in a second or two like with a cell phone. Same with lack of sleep...in some ways it is as bad as alcohol. Drowsiness and lack of sleep is not something you can instantly turn off with a button either, although sometimes strong coffee will help a little. But in the end, there is no substitute for rest and sleep either.
#17
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Before you read this note i am against drunk driving, and i dont drive my car if i know i have had 2+ beers.
I was in a discussion in my law class and drunk driving had come up, I thought about it and i came to the conclusion that it is punished too severely. Yes alcohol impairs your judgment but so does a myriad of things. Eating, Talking to people in the car, smoking, Cellphones, exhaustion, just to name a few. Yet drunk driving can be punished up to jail time while cellphones only get a ticket. Exhaustion in my opinion is even worse than drunk driving cause if you fall asleep at the wheel you have no control over the car as opposed to delayed reactions from drinking. Yet, (correct me if im wrong) a ticket for driving exhausted doesnt even exist. I just think that it is unfair that there is a precise number to determine if someone is drunk and that drunk driving is the most serious impairment to drivers.
That was my little rant, and yes everyone has their own opinions and i would like to hear yours.
I was in a discussion in my law class and drunk driving had come up, I thought about it and i came to the conclusion that it is punished too severely. Yes alcohol impairs your judgment but so does a myriad of things. Eating, Talking to people in the car, smoking, Cellphones, exhaustion, just to name a few. Yet drunk driving can be punished up to jail time while cellphones only get a ticket. Exhaustion in my opinion is even worse than drunk driving cause if you fall asleep at the wheel you have no control over the car as opposed to delayed reactions from drinking. Yet, (correct me if im wrong) a ticket for driving exhausted doesnt even exist. I just think that it is unfair that there is a precise number to determine if someone is drunk and that drunk driving is the most serious impairment to drivers.
That was my little rant, and yes everyone has their own opinions and i would like to hear yours.
Are you still 17 like what it says in your sig? Coz if you are....
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#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakex1 View Post
Before you read this note i am against drunk driving, and i dont drive my car if i know i have had 2+ beers.
I was in a discussion in my law class and drunk driving had come up, I thought about it and i came to the conclusion that it is punished too severely. Yes alcohol impairs your judgment but so does a myriad of things. Eating, Talking to people in the car, smoking, Cellphones, exhaustion, just to name a few. Yet drunk driving can be punished up to jail time while cellphones only get a ticket. Exhaustion in my opinion is even worse than drunk driving cause if you fall asleep at the wheel you have no control over the car as opposed to delayed reactions from drinking. Yet, (correct me if im wrong) a ticket for driving exhausted doesnt even exist. I just think that it is unfair that there is a precise number to determine if someone is drunk and that drunk driving is the most serious impairment to drivers.
That was my little rant, and yes everyone has their own opinions and i would like to hear yours.
Are you still 17 like what it says in your sig? Coz if you are....
Originally Posted by Jakex1 View Post
Before you read this note i am against drunk driving, and i dont drive my car if i know i have had 2+ beers.
I was in a discussion in my law class and drunk driving had come up, I thought about it and i came to the conclusion that it is punished too severely. Yes alcohol impairs your judgment but so does a myriad of things. Eating, Talking to people in the car, smoking, Cellphones, exhaustion, just to name a few. Yet drunk driving can be punished up to jail time while cellphones only get a ticket. Exhaustion in my opinion is even worse than drunk driving cause if you fall asleep at the wheel you have no control over the car as opposed to delayed reactions from drinking. Yet, (correct me if im wrong) a ticket for driving exhausted doesnt even exist. I just think that it is unfair that there is a precise number to determine if someone is drunk and that drunk driving is the most serious impairment to drivers.
That was my little rant, and yes everyone has their own opinions and i would like to hear yours.
Are you still 17 like what it says in your sig? Coz if you are....
#19
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See that's where your argument lost merit. There should be a period there instead.
Things are what they are, there are no comparisons that can change that. Drunk driving is drunk driving. (notice the period)
The whiners of the country want to compare things to make them look less evil. This is called "Redirecting the attention from the problem".
The ugly girlfriend in the group may make the less homely look better, but they are all still going home together and watching Jeopardy at the end of the night.
The issue that makes DUI so much more severe is FREE WILL and ability. If you are in the car and talking on the cell phone you have both the free will and the ability to hang up, but if you are in the car drunk then you do not have the ability to say "ok I'll be un-drunk for the next 20 miles". Ok the phone I can see someone swerve in front of me and slam on my brakes, drunk I won't hit my brakes at all (or 2 seconds after I hit them).
On the phone you can be a hazard on 23rd street and the perfect driver on 24th street. Drunk, you are a hazard the whole way, ....and here's the period.
Bring that up in class. You can't argue it. That's what it is and why, the end.
(Edit: I see mmarshall beat me to it and is perfectly correct)
Things are what they are, there are no comparisons that can change that. Drunk driving is drunk driving. (notice the period)
The whiners of the country want to compare things to make them look less evil. This is called "Redirecting the attention from the problem".
The ugly girlfriend in the group may make the less homely look better, but they are all still going home together and watching Jeopardy at the end of the night.
The issue that makes DUI so much more severe is FREE WILL and ability. If you are in the car and talking on the cell phone you have both the free will and the ability to hang up, but if you are in the car drunk then you do not have the ability to say "ok I'll be un-drunk for the next 20 miles". Ok the phone I can see someone swerve in front of me and slam on my brakes, drunk I won't hit my brakes at all (or 2 seconds after I hit them).
On the phone you can be a hazard on 23rd street and the perfect driver on 24th street. Drunk, you are a hazard the whole way, ....and here's the period.
Bring that up in class. You can't argue it. That's what it is and why, the end.
(Edit: I see mmarshall beat me to it and is perfectly correct)
Last edited by O. L. T.; 11-27-07 at 05:56 PM.
#21
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^ I agree with Tekknikal's point. Even with punishments, some individuals still insist on driving drunk, so I believe that it may not even be severe enough. We are all more than sufficiently educated about the hazards and risks of driving drunk, not only to ourselves but to others as well, so why is it still being done? It is basically the self-discipline of the individual that matters.
#22
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Before you read this note i am against drunk driving, and i dont drive my car if i know i have had 2+ beers.
I was in a discussion in my law class and drunk driving had come up, I thought about it and i came to the conclusion that it is punished too severely. Yes alcohol impairs your judgment but so does a myriad of things. Eating, Talking to people in the car, smoking, Cellphones, exhaustion, just to name a few. Yet drunk driving can be punished up to jail time while cellphones only get a ticket. Exhaustion in my opinion is even worse than drunk driving cause if you fall asleep at the wheel you have no control over the car as opposed to delayed reactions from drinking. Yet, (correct me if im wrong) a ticket for driving exhausted doesnt even exist. I just think that it is unfair that there is a precise number to determine if someone is drunk and that drunk driving is the most serious impairment to drivers.
That was my little rant, and yes everyone has their own opinions and i would like to hear yours.
I was in a discussion in my law class and drunk driving had come up, I thought about it and i came to the conclusion that it is punished too severely. Yes alcohol impairs your judgment but so does a myriad of things. Eating, Talking to people in the car, smoking, Cellphones, exhaustion, just to name a few. Yet drunk driving can be punished up to jail time while cellphones only get a ticket. Exhaustion in my opinion is even worse than drunk driving cause if you fall asleep at the wheel you have no control over the car as opposed to delayed reactions from drinking. Yet, (correct me if im wrong) a ticket for driving exhausted doesnt even exist. I just think that it is unfair that there is a precise number to determine if someone is drunk and that drunk driving is the most serious impairment to drivers.
That was my little rant, and yes everyone has their own opinions and i would like to hear yours.
I have heard of ONE account where a person was on a cell phone and ran a stop sign and killed someone (unfortunately, a small child in another car). All of us have heard MANY stories of someone killed by a drunk driver, and probably know of someone personally affected by drunk driving.
The next closest example you cite is driving drowsy. That may rise to the level of drunk driving, and you very well may go to jail if you kill someone doing that. BUT--you can pull to a rest stop, or 7-11, get some fresh air, and be re-invigorated enough to drive again, esp. if it is the "within 30 minutes" you refer to above. You get out of the car for some fresh air--and you're still drunk.
There may be some good arguments comparing driving while on the cell phone to some of the other activities you list, but there is no comparing them to drunk driving.
Last edited by tex2670; 11-27-07 at 06:49 PM.
#23
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I personally think drunk driving deserves more graduated punishments.
Right now at .07 you'd walk away free and clear but at .08 you'd be screwed to the wall spending many thousands in lawyers fees and fines at best and spending tens of thousands plus time in jail or without a license at worst (especially for a second offense).
Right now at .07 you'd walk away free and clear but at .08 you'd be screwed to the wall spending many thousands in lawyers fees and fines at best and spending tens of thousands plus time in jail or without a license at worst (especially for a second offense).
Also, "drunk driving" is not an accurate term. Definition of drunk driving would be inability to react (due to intoxication) to road conditions in a timely manner necessary to operate a vehicle at legal speed. That is not always the case with DUI convictions (as Threxx mentioned). Even if one's reactions are slower than normal, it does not automatically mean that they are inadequate (as is currently the practice). Granted, that most really drunk drivers can be spotted (wide turns and not staying in one lane are the best telltale signs).
While the accidents and the damage that they do to people's lives are horrible, they are no more horrible than accidents caused by any other reason. I have heard anecdotal evidence that says that the #1 cause of fatalities in the US is single vehicle accidents where the driver dozes off and runs off the road and that cell phone use raises your accident risk on par with having BAC well above the legal limit. I do think that because of MADD and similar organizations and the stigma that the drinking carries in our society the stick on DUI is bent over too far. If god forbid a man kills someone in an accident (may be) because of the 2 beers that he had, most people would feel about it a lot harsher than if it was a woman with 5 kids in the car because of distraction.
If the gov really wanted to get rid of drunk driving, as it is called, they would put a certified BAC meter in every place that has a liquor license and would sell certified BAC meters for personal use (by "certified", I mean legally admissible readings). Right now, there's one blanket rule - don't drink and drive - ever. That is sometimes not a good option and that leaves many people in a gray zone where they can get caught in a legal grinder, even if they are actually capable of operating a car.
This is not an argument for DUI, if you haven't figured it out by now, but more for leveling the playing field a little bit. Right now, the odds are stacked way against the driver.
P.S.
Oh, and I did a little experiment one of these days and played Gran Turismo spec A on my PS2 while moderately intoxicated (definitely more than I would care to drive with) and my lap times were comparable with my normal times.
Last edited by Vlad_Stein; 11-27-07 at 07:22 PM.
#24
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...I do think that because of MADD and similar organizations and the stigma that the drinking carries in our society the stick on DUI is bent over too far. If god forbid a man kills someone in an accident (may be) because of the 2 beers that he had, most people would feel about it a lot harsher than if it was a woman with 5 kids in the car because of distraction...
#25
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Anyone who believes the punishment for a DUI is pushed too far have:
-a probability of driving drunk in the future
-already driven drunk or have a DUI
The punishment isn't enough for the many innocent deaths of drunk drivers.
You shouldn't compare the irresponsibilities of drunk driving vs other distractions.
.
-a probability of driving drunk in the future
-already driven drunk or have a DUI
The punishment isn't enough for the many innocent deaths of drunk drivers.
You shouldn't compare the irresponsibilities of drunk driving vs other distractions.
.
#26
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Anyone who believes the punishment for a DUI is pushed too far have:
-a probability of driving drunk in the future
-already driven drunk or have a DUI
The punishment isn't enough for the many innocent deaths of drunk drivers.
You shouldn't compare the irresponsibilities of drunk driving vs other distractions.
.
-a probability of driving drunk in the future
-already driven drunk or have a DUI
The punishment isn't enough for the many innocent deaths of drunk drivers.
You shouldn't compare the irresponsibilities of drunk driving vs other distractions.
.
Even though you state that these are not on the same level as drunk driving, you don't explain why... Just because you said so or are there some statistics from a neutral body to back this up (that DUI accidents are indeed THE major cause of accidents in the country)? Because, based on the punishment, it would seem that they are (which I doubt).
I just think that there is a big difference between a driver that is about to puke from being intoxicated and having double vision and a driver that had a couple of beers. The law treats them the same - I think that is not fair.
Agree to disagree, though.
#27
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i cant believe there are so many skeptics here on the impact of drinking and driving. yes, being tired while you drive is dangerous, BUT THATS A SEPARATE ISSUE. the question is, are the penalties for drunk driving excessive. when you look at what it is and what the results are, how can you say no?
penalties help curb behavior. you dont need large penalties for driving while exhausted because in general, i think its safe to say that people dont like doing it, and its not as big of a problem. people love to drink though, and then think they can drive, but they cant. that behavior needs to be stopped. this is not like speeding, cell phones, or being tired.
penalties help curb behavior. you dont need large penalties for driving while exhausted because in general, i think its safe to say that people dont like doing it, and its not as big of a problem. people love to drink though, and then think they can drive, but they cant. that behavior needs to be stopped. this is not like speeding, cell phones, or being tired.
#28
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thank you vlad, that was the argument i was trying to make, sorry if anyone misunderstood. That organizations SUCH as MADD or SADD places drunk driving as an extreme taboo. Lol vlad made it so much more concise and precise. Also what if a man who is .08 borderline "legally" drunk yet capable of driving a car, gets in a accident with another person who has kids in the car screaming, watching nemo, and talking on the cellphone trying to finalize whatever plans the person may have. The drunk driver will definitely be placed at fault. Because society views drunk driving lowly but having screaming kids may be perfectly acceptable.
If you actually kill or injure someone while you were distracted talking on the phone, you will pay the price for reckless driving--which covers ANYTHING reckless.
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So--do you propose to criminalize being "distracted"? And, if we are talking about sliding scales, does your example -- kids screaming, dvd going, cell phone talking--carry a heavier penalty than just tuning your stereo? When you are drunk, whether buzzed or blitzed, you can't eliminate your condition. You CAN hang up the phone, turn off the radio, tell the kids to pipe down. THAT'S the difference. You can't just say "That was a close one--I better stop being drunk."
If you actually kill or injure someone while you were distracted talking on the phone, you will pay the price for reckless driving--which covers ANYTHING reckless.
If you actually kill or injure someone while you were distracted talking on the phone, you will pay the price for reckless driving--which covers ANYTHING reckless.
Think about it if people never pushed for laws to come out because so many drunk drivers have killed others, MORE people would be driving drunk, and people would treat drunk driving accidents equally as other accidents where the driver had other distractions.
shouldnt jump to conclusions. i.e. Many men are pro-choice or pro-life but they probably never had children or plan to have children in the future. Its just ethics on everyones idea of right and wrong, just as the penalties for drunk driving is.
#30
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This type of behavior demonstrates that when a person becomes sufficiently intoxicated, they lose their ability to make rational decisions. The level of intoxication at which this occurs may vary dramatically from person to person, and certainly many people may never allow themselves to pass this limit. But laws designed to protect people from idiots will always be based on the idiots.