92 SC400

mmarshall - you mentioned it tries to be a BMW (performance wise) while being a Lexus (fit and finish, luxury, etc), but it seems you feel it is closer to a BMW?

Interesting, I just saw a commercial for this new M and it ended with... "...it's what make the M a driver's car."

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Great review great car.

I'd take the M45 over the GS460 because it handle and steers better. If I want boring I'll go whole hog and get a Cadillac DTS.

Iceman

Mmarshall, how does it compare to your previous favorite in this class, the Acura RL? While the RL has "only" a V6, it does put out similar horsepower and performance numbers. And, of course, the price is a WHOLE lot less.

LexFather

Yeah, I see more Bentleys in Atlanta than any other luxury car (maybe they are 300Cs ). What people "see" is FAR from an accurate assesment of sales. What could be popular in one city could be doing poorly everywhere else.
Nissan has never released V-8 only numbers, we have no idea. It could be 20, it could be 200, it could be 1,000. We have no idea, they do not separate figures for this model. We can't even trend the data outside of total sales.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

For the price of this particular M45x ($64k), you can be driving a flagship vehicle. Although the Lexus LS460 or Jaguar XJ do not offer AWD, it shares the same price. For $6k more, you can get an Audi A8.

I think that although the M45 can offer AWD, it should shy away from reaching the same prices as the "next" level vehicle. Although Infiniti no longer has the Q45, the M45x should not be as expensive as the Q45...

Shawnmack

Godd review, lately in Charlotte I have seen a few M's mostly M35's. I didn't think the M cost over 63k. I would def get the Hybrid GS.

doug_999

You are dealing with a completely loaded car here. Take it down to the base price ($51,850 + Gas Guz) and then compare.

Remember this thing at $63K has things like:
9GB Music hard drive
iPOD Interface
Nav
Rear View monitor
XM
XM Nav Traffic
Intelligent cruise
Brake assist w/ Preview
Lane Departure warning
Mobile Entertainment System

Try to get the LS460 even close to these options and you are over $70K and still don't have AWD. The A8 is going to be $80K.....

mmarshall

Well, like I said, it doesn't necesarily start out overpriced, but the packages really sock it to you. You can drop the price almost 10K without the Premium Package alone, (and you'll drop the annoying lane-Warning Nanny to boot), but you will give up some nice things as well.

And, of course, you are correct that AWD V8 cars, in general, don't sell for chump change.

mmarshall

OK, SICK, no problem. If that's the way Nissan works, so be it. You, Andrew, and flip do a great job with the numbers anyway.

mmarshall

Well, with the demise of the Q45, the M45, technically, IS now a flagship vehicle among Infiniti sedans. That is one of the main reasons I chose it for the holiday review....it is Infiniti's top-line sedan, competes directly now with Lexus (especially the GS), and is a car that seems to generate a lot of interest among CL members.

However, you are correct that 64K (and maybe some incentives) will probably get you into a base-level RWD Lexus LS460, minus major options. And the LS460, a true flagship, of course, is one size larger on the outside than the M45..

The main problem is that Infiniti, for the money, no longer has an LS460-sized sedan to compete with it....the smaller M45 has to fill those shoes for the moment. One could argue that the Q45 should come back, but as it didn't sell before, there is little reason to believe it would sell now.......VW had that same problem with the Phaeton.

I can remember, just a couple of years ago, when I went to the Infiniti store to check out either the G35 and M35X sedans for reviews (can't remember which time), they had a brand-new Q45 in the showroom with big discount tags on it.....they were only asking 38K, with incentives and discounts. The fact that they couldn't sell these cars for less money than some loaded G35s tells you something.

However, the people at the Infiniti shop this time told me that another Q is in the works. It may not have that designation per se, but will replace the old Q, so Infiniti may not have completely given up, in the American market, on an LS460-fighter.

But if they do, they better, at least, put a REAL spare tire and wheel in the damn trunk)

mmarshall

The RL's V6 is not, as you suggest, in the same league. The M45's V8, with 325 HP and 336 ft-lbs. of torque, easily outclasses the heavier and lower-powered RL in the drag-strip department, especially the RWD M45 Sport version, which scooted like some the 1960's muscle cars I grew up with. In many ways, it was like driving a 4-door, 440 or Hemi Road Runner with a LOT more quality, features, and fit/finish.....and underpinnings that would actually handle. Even the heavier M45X AWD, while not quite the equal of the Sport on the dragstrip, will easily get out of its own way and has nothing to be ashamed of.

But that's not to say I would choose it over the RL. The RL is a more sedate vehicle, somewhat quieter both in the exhaust and over coarse road surfaces, rides better (the M45X is quite firm, the Sport even more so), has an AWD (SH-AWD) system just as good or better as the Infiniti's, has a body, doors, and hardware even better than the M45's, and is less expensive as well. True, the RL's V6 only puts out some 260 ft.-lbs of torque to the M45's 336....and is dragging a heavier car to boot.....but speed is not the first criteria I look at when buying a car, nor is it the only thing I'm concerned with. Some have criticized the RL's plain-Jane Accord-like styling....I have no problem with it.

So, in short, for my tastes, the RL is more preferable. It is acceptably powerful enough for me, has even better interior hardware, comparable wood trim quality, doors and body like a tank, and an excellent ride-handling combination. And the RL is not (yet), anyway, a me-too vehicle. Its popularity is increasing, but you certainly don't see them in Camry or Accord-like numbers, so you can bargain on them too. And the RL is offered in more color choices.....all the M45 colors are either based on blue-gray, desert sand, or the usual white/silver-gay/black choices. But performance-minded buyers and BMW-philes, naturally, would prefer the M45......and my review, of course, was for them as well.

mmarshall

Thanks.
As I've stated elsewhere, you can get an M45 for a lot less than 63K (see the website I attached in the review for prices), but it will not have some of the car's major features. I have driven and reviewed some models of the new GS, but not the Hybrid, so I can't directly comment on a GS Hybrid comparison (for one thing, they are hard to get). Several auto magazines, however, have tested the Hybrid, and have good write-ups.

mmarshall

That's one of the nice things about living here in the D.C. area, the country's second-largest new-car market outside of SoCal. Here, almost EVERYTHING sells, although some of the exotic sports cars like Ferrari do better on the West Coast. That is why I have so many dealerships and outlets relatively close to my house, so many cars to choose from, and so many chances to do reviews. Yet, some models are still difficult to come by even here, such as Lexus Hybrids.....and even with a review request when the car was new to the American market, I had to wait over four weeks to find an unspoken-for Honda Fit to check out. Demand for some new models often exceeds supply.

AJL0365

I remember in one point in time (2007 MY) When i worked at Infiniti, none of the car, not even the QX56 hit the 60k mark. only time when that happened is when they put some rims on the car and marked the price up like 4k. seeing a 64k Infiniti on the lot is going to be kinda weird I think. Mercedes E550 hel even the 350 & BMW 5 can get away with this, but i dont think infiniti could, I mean most of their dealers cant even afford a big red bow to put on top of a car for the hollidays, they get these flimsy bows from wal-mart that you can put on top of a regular & call it a day. just thought i would say that, that bothered me when I noticed that lol

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Should put this in the buicks You know I'm joking mmarshall.....then again

Awesome review as always mmarshall. I think this one tops the one as the longest.

I'll confess and say that I didn't read all of it. I got cross eyed for a while there

I like infiniti more than acura, but they realllly need to step up on their dealerships. Not luxurious at all.