SoCal460

I am new to the Lexus forums, but have purchased 3 in the last 10 years. My most recent is a 2008 LS460L, and it is an awesome car, but for style with performance, I disagree with you. I also have had 3 Audi's, and one being a 2007 RS4, and there is no comparison with that car. It flat out beats down on any Asian import car.

Just my .02

LexFather

Guys, no more personal remarks please.

STIG

I drove a CLS550 yesterday, and it is better than every Japanese car I have ever driven. Period.

My IS350 never felt that solid, not even close. ( I think IS is probably the most stable car you can get from lexus right now)

I said it again and again, when it comes to driving dynamic, Japanese still have a lot of work to do.

-J-P-L-

OK, so we've established that the German cars are dynamically better drivers for most people. My argument was pointing out less COMFORTABLE qualities about how German cars feel and function. Heavy steering, excessive engine breaking, and bad ergonomics are not positive things for me. You guys are free to disagree.

Responses keep going back to how great german cars are for pure driving. That's been talked about in a million threads. How about everything else about cars?? That's why I made this thread.

Notice I haven't even brought up quality which is always better accomlished by the japenese. Or styling which is always subjective. Those are in a million other threads too.

Can anyone honestly say that there german cars are easier to function and are more comfortable than the Japenese? From audio and climate, to cup holders, to armrests, ect, ect.

Who cares about the slalom right now.

TwiBlueG35

May be not so anymore once Nissan GT-R comes out.

gengar

What hostility? I am pointing out that you're misinterpreting my statement by bringing up depreciation, and my original objection (which you quoted) by bringing up model differences. It's not even agreeing or disagreeing, unless you are choosing to disagree with facts. As I said, I simply don't see where depreciation comes into play here. I never discussed that.

Um, my point was precisely that I think so. I'm glad you do too, because then you agree with my objection to the post I quoted. And I'm already on the record as per how I feel the IS-F must maintain Lexus' quality standards; if the IS-F has lower quality than the S-class I'll certainly hold that against Lexus.

OC 335d

I don't see how the steering is too stiff to be comfortable driving unless someone is a total weakling.

I think the Audio controls on my BMW are much easier than on my Lexus actually. On the Lexus I can't even view the playlists while driving. WTH is that? How is function better when Lexus tells you what you can and cannot do? The song names are cutoff on the screen too. It does not display the whole song name, the BMW scrolls over to show you the entire track name. BMW's fm presets? Once you actually set the stations, browsing stations with the **** is great. You can change stations very easily and are not limited to your typical 6-8 stations. The RDS data is shown as well (not truncated).

Climate? Climate is very simple in both cars, On the Lexus, I don't like how I have to hit climate first to adjust the fan speed. On the BMW you can adjust the fan speed without going thru the electronic menus. You should have to hit the climate button and then the touchscreen to adjust the fan speed up and down IMO. That is not intuitive nor user friendly.

I seriously think you are just used to Japanese cars. Most of us are arguing have BOTH Japanese and German cars. I have the BMW 335i, fiancee has the IS. I drive the IS at least 2-3 times a week. If you want to look at the rest my family, my sister has a BMW (335i), her husband has a BMW (X3), dad has 2 Lexus (Lx430, new GS350), and mother has Benz (E-Class)

The Navigation on the BMW is definitely easier to use. On the Lexus you can't even change destinations while driving. You can't look up POI while driving as well. Don't tell me about the Nav Hack because 99% of the people who have the Lexus will never perform the Nav Hack.

Again, I already refuted this as when I release my brake pedal, the 335i moves much faster (w/o gas) than the IS. I have firsthand experience with this.

Obviously there are people who do.

For the record, I've owned 3 Acuras, and a few Hondas as well.

TwiBlueG35

I think you are bending and twisting the FACT that BMW's navigation system is the worst in the market, period. I could do a competition with you by entering the same address into the Lexus' and BMW's navigation at the same time, I guarantee you I could finish way way way ahead of you no matter how familiar you are with the BMW's navi. You need to flip pages to find the appropriate alphabets by hitting left/right and twisting and pressing motions using the I-Drive buttons, while only hitting the screen by one finger on Lexus's. See it is not important to enter destinations while driving, but extremely important to easily pick the 26 A-Z alphabets on the same screen.

krazykanuk

Personally, I find its all in what you get used to.

It annoys me in our GX that I have to reach over to the nav screen to change modes to change the fan speed or anything like that, while in our A8 I reach the same distance and just change it. The nav lockout is also a PITA. With MMI either the driver or passenger can do stuff with the nav.

Something, I think the german cars (don't know for certain), and our other American cars have this, I know Lexus doesn't...but volume amounts, like an actual number for the volume level. Our SC and my IS300 don't have it, you just turn the dial and guess which one you're on. The GX doesn't even have a visible zero point on the dial. you can turn it all day.

Our Yukon has this on the steering wheel, as does the Mustang on the radio, and its a mute button. I really wish the Lexus would too because its so much easier than having to reach over to turn off the stereo or in the GX the alternative is holding down the volume control until it goes to zero.

OC 335d

Really TwiBlue? I'm not bending or twisting the "FACT" on anything, I have both cars in my stable. You do often need to change your input directions while driving. Sure you're faster while parked, however when driving, the BMW will still be driving while you have to pull over and park. PERIOD. I honestly consider any Navigation system that doesn't allow me to search for POI while driving inferior to mine. The BMW navigation is much easier to read, however the Lexus has nicer POI icons (the actual signs of the stores, restaurants, gas stations, etc..) The dual configurable wide screens are much more customizable and better than our Lexus. You are talking about one specific feature (faster inputting directions while driving), while I'm referring to the Navi as a whole.

P.S. The letters in the alphabet in I-Drive are all on the same screen.

-J-P-L-

I wouldn't want to be in a car where the driver changes nav settings WHILE DRIVING. That's like a women doing her makeup on the freeway. Please pull over to adjust your navgation. It takes 2 seconds to get into an accident when your eyes are pulled off the road.

-J-P-L-

I just like to turn the wheel with almost no effort (one finger).
I can deadlift 425 lbs for 3 reps, so being "weak" is not the issue. And I'll admit that the Acura MDX and TL are both a bit stiff in german fashion so sometimes it is on a model to model basis. But generally, most german cars have that stiff feel while most Japenese cars have a lighter feel.


I have interest in what cars can do at there limits but like I said, that's not the topic here.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

That just goes to show most of everyones opinions are just that with personal bias. It doesn't make the German or Japanese cars better, but just different.

Compared to you, I'm definitely a weakling. I'm 5'4" and at my best physical shape in HS I was benching only about 225lbs. Yet, I actually hate the one finger light power steering wheels and prefer the BMW feel. Infiniti is starting to have some firmer steering wheels as well. Like I said, my NSX had a manual steering rack. No power steering at all. It was the best feeling steering I ever drove. I couldn't one finger turn the wheel, but in slow parking lots I could still one hand steer, and at road speed it was nothing. Firm, but not like a power steering that had the power steering fail.

Like many who have continued to posts on this topic, I have owned more Japanese cars (Mostly Acura and Lexus) than my German cars (Only BMW so far). Each has their positives and negatives. No car is perfect in all areas. I find some of the ergonomics of the BMW the same as the Japanese, and I find some of it better and worse.

mmarshall

Ultra-light steering is probably put into some domestic cars like the Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis (which has probably the most feathery steering I've seen on a modern car) because of their high percentage of senior citizen drivers with arthritis or other problems in their hands, arms, and shoulders.

I don't know that reason to be a fact, but it seems like a good guess.

The Honda Accord, for years, also had way overboosted steering, but lately has definitely turned more BMW-like, especially on the new Accord Coupe.

mavericck

It's called voice recognition. Also, inputing a destination isn't all that difficult when the car is moving. It's extremely infuriating when your passenger can't even input a destination unless the car comes to a stop.