My Rant on German Cars - Anyone Else Agree?
12-12-07, 07:43 PM
#107
Lexus Fanatic
I think the basic reason for it, 1SICK, was, like on Porsches, to put the tach directly in front of the driver, which, of course, helps those driving sticks and auto-manuals more than full automatics.
12-12-07, 07:51 PM
#108
Guest
Posts: n/a
Now I will say when I sat in the new Civic, things did seem to go where they were supposed to (Honda IMO does great, logical interiors). I just love where the hand brake was and the feel when I pulled it up. Perfect.
12-12-07, 08:01 PM
#109
Lexus Test Driver
It's not so much the two-tier dash I dislike as much as the digital speedometer. You don't think it's a lot easier and quicker to just watch a conventional analog speedometer needle going up or down than for your eyes and brain to try and constantly decipher, by the split-second, a continually-changing, flashing LCD readout? If that's OK with you, fine. I respect your opinion. 
Me.......give me analog instruments any day of the week.
Me.......give me analog instruments any day of the week.
12-12-07, 08:07 PM
#111
My mom had a '07 Civic 4-door EX with the automatic. It was the shortest-lived vehicle we've ever had; a mere 9-months from purchase to trade.
Not to say it was a bad car. In fact, I think it's at the top of its class. I liked the parking brake position, but the automatic shifter was a bit too far forward, can't really reach it from the centre armrest. I didn't care for the two-tier instrument cluster design, mainly because I never got used to it and as a result, never looked at my speed.
The stalks were positioned well, and so were the HVAC controls. They could use a bit more resistance to the detents, but that's being nitpicky. However, I thought the audio controls were too far forward, the "rocker" buttons for the channel presets could be more precise, and the steering wheel controls for the audio were counterintuitive.
From a driving perspective though, I think the Mazda3 has it a bit better. First of all, the Civic doesn't have proper throttle control. It's either "nothing" or "too much", which made smooth starts a challenge. However, brake pedal feel is better in the Civic; in the Mazda3 it's basically an on-off switch
. The steering is too twitchy for my tastes, and the A-pillar always seemed to get in my way when I made a turn. The ABS was far too aggressive, cutting in too early. In contrast, the Mazda3 was more tossable and pretty fun to drive. My biggest problem with the Mazda3 was the rear suspension setup.......far too easy to oversteer. It never felt as planted as the Civic on the backroads, and any mistakes with the controls would land you in trouble.
Not to say it was a bad car. In fact, I think it's at the top of its class. I liked the parking brake position, but the automatic shifter was a bit too far forward, can't really reach it from the centre armrest. I didn't care for the two-tier instrument cluster design, mainly because I never got used to it and as a result, never looked at my speed.
The stalks were positioned well, and so were the HVAC controls. They could use a bit more resistance to the detents, but that's being nitpicky. However, I thought the audio controls were too far forward, the "rocker" buttons for the channel presets could be more precise, and the steering wheel controls for the audio were counterintuitive.
From a driving perspective though, I think the Mazda3 has it a bit better. First of all, the Civic doesn't have proper throttle control. It's either "nothing" or "too much", which made smooth starts a challenge. However, brake pedal feel is better in the Civic; in the Mazda3 it's basically an on-off switch
. The steering is too twitchy for my tastes, and the A-pillar always seemed to get in my way when I made a turn. The ABS was far too aggressive, cutting in too early. In contrast, the Mazda3 was more tossable and pretty fun to drive. My biggest problem with the Mazda3 was the rear suspension setup.......far too easy to oversteer. It never felt as planted as the Civic on the backroads, and any mistakes with the controls would land you in trouble.
12-12-07, 08:22 PM
#112
Lexus Fanatic
12-13-07, 03:50 AM
#113
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It's funny, I never liked the old digital speedos that were in some early to mid 90's vehicles, but I really like the way that Honda implemented it in it's deep dash. I got used to it after only minutes of driving it.
Most customer reviews that I've read on sites like Edmonds generally shows that owners were initially on the negative side for this design but said they quickly perferred it for style and ease of viewing.
Either way, I just haven't been in a car where I felt that everything was exactly where it should be other than the Civic. This incudes Honda's own Acura line (even RL). It also beats the great ergonomics of my SC400 (mostly in the cup holder and compartment area where it lacks).
Most customer reviews that I've read on sites like Edmonds generally shows that owners were initially on the negative side for this design but said they quickly perferred it for style and ease of viewing.
Either way, I just haven't been in a car where I felt that everything was exactly where it should be other than the Civic. This incudes Honda's own Acura line (even RL). It also beats the great ergonomics of my SC400 (mostly in the cup holder and compartment area where it lacks).
12-13-07, 04:34 AM
#114
Lexus Fanatic
It's funny, I never liked the old digital speedos that were in some early to mid 90's vehicles, but I really like the way that Honda implemented it in it's deep dash. I got used to it after only minutes of driving it.
Most customer reviews that I've read on sites like Edmonds generally shows that owners were initially on the negative side for this design but said they quickly perferred it for style and ease of viewing.
Either way, I just haven't been in a car where I felt that everything was exactly where it should be other than the Civic. This incudes Honda's own Acura line (even RL). It also beats the great ergonomics of my SC400 (mostly in the cup holder and compartment area where it lacks).
Most customer reviews that I've read on sites like Edmonds generally shows that owners were initially on the negative side for this design but said they quickly perferred it for style and ease of viewing.
Either way, I just haven't been in a car where I felt that everything was exactly where it should be other than the Civic. This incudes Honda's own Acura line (even RL). It also beats the great ergonomics of my SC400 (mostly in the cup holder and compartment area where it lacks).
A brand-new Civic generally won't set your bank account back very much, especially if you get a good price for your old car. But be prepared to haggle like a Middle Eastern merchant........Honda dealerships are known for their stinginess and lack of incentives, and discounts are sometimes hard to get even with a good supply of new cars on the lot.
Let us know when you take delivery, then PM me with your name and mailing address and you get a complementary bottle of SCRATCH-OUT for the paint to keep it like new.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-13-07 at 04:44 AM.
12-13-07, 09:50 AM
#116
A brand-new Civic generally won't set your bank account back very much, especially if you get a good price for your old car. But be prepared to haggle like a Middle Eastern merchant........Honda dealerships are known for their stinginess and lack of incentives, and discounts are sometimes hard to get even with a good supply of new cars on the lot.
12-13-07, 10:27 AM
#117
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Join Date: Jul 2001
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My mom had a '07 Civic 4-door EX with the automatic. It was the shortest-lived vehicle we've ever had; a mere 9-months from purchase to trade.
Not to say it was a bad car. In fact, I think it's at the top of its class. I liked the parking brake position, but the automatic shifter was a bit too far forward, can't really reach it from the centre armrest. I didn't care for the two-tier instrument cluster design, mainly because I never got used to it and as a result, never looked at my speed.
The stalks were positioned well, and so were the HVAC controls. They could use a bit more resistance to the detents, but that's being nitpicky. However, I thought the audio controls were too far forward, the "rocker" buttons for the channel presets could be more precise, and the steering wheel controls for the audio were counterintuitive.
From a driving perspective though, I think the Mazda3 has it a bit better. First of all, the Civic doesn't have proper throttle control. It's either "nothing" or "too much", which made smooth starts a challenge. However, brake pedal feel is better in the Civic; in the Mazda3 it's basically an on-off switch. The steering is too twitchy for my tastes, and the A-pillar always seemed to get in my way when I made a turn. The ABS was far too aggressive, cutting in too early. In contrast, the Mazda3 was more tossable and pretty fun to drive. My biggest problem with the Mazda3 was the rear suspension setup.......far too easy to oversteer. It never felt as planted as the Civic on the backroads, and any mistakes with the controls would land you in trouble.
Not to say it was a bad car. In fact, I think it's at the top of its class. I liked the parking brake position, but the automatic shifter was a bit too far forward, can't really reach it from the centre armrest. I didn't care for the two-tier instrument cluster design, mainly because I never got used to it and as a result, never looked at my speed.
The stalks were positioned well, and so were the HVAC controls. They could use a bit more resistance to the detents, but that's being nitpicky. However, I thought the audio controls were too far forward, the "rocker" buttons for the channel presets could be more precise, and the steering wheel controls for the audio were counterintuitive.
From a driving perspective though, I think the Mazda3 has it a bit better. First of all, the Civic doesn't have proper throttle control. It's either "nothing" or "too much", which made smooth starts a challenge. However, brake pedal feel is better in the Civic; in the Mazda3 it's basically an on-off switch
. The steering is too twitchy for my tastes, and the A-pillar always seemed to get in my way when I made a turn. The ABS was far too aggressive, cutting in too early. In contrast, the Mazda3 was more tossable and pretty fun to drive. My biggest problem with the Mazda3 was the rear suspension setup.......far too easy to oversteer. It never felt as planted as the Civic on the backroads, and any mistakes with the controls would land you in trouble.
12-13-07, 12:57 PM
#118
Lexus Fanatic
Probably saved a little money, too, notwithstanding the gas it took to drive out there and back. MD's $99 cap on the dealer-processing fee helps (VA does not have a cap), and as VA residents, they paid the lower (3%) VA tax on a new car (MD's is 5%). By law, in the U.S., no matter where you buy a car, you pay the tax for the state where you are a resident of or where the car will be registered and insured, not necessarily the state the dealership is located in. Sometimes this can save you a little money, but other factors are involved too.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-13-07 at 01:28 PM.
12-13-07, 01:05 PM
#119
By law, in the U.S., no matter where you buy a car, you pay the tax for the state where you are a resident of or where the car will be registered and insured, not necessarily the state the dealership is located in. Sometimes this can save you a little money, but other factors are involved too.
. And all y'all in California would go to Oregon.
12-13-07, 01:54 PM
#120
Lexus Fanatic
BMW has the best drive feel of any car, but the Germans are way behind in designing reliable elctronic components that last. This is what lead me to Japanese cars like Infiniti and finally to Lexus. The senors last along with other components. The best way to find out about a cars reliablity is to speak to the parts department guys. Most of the very high end BMW's, Mercedes' and Audi's priced 80k and over 100k have the most problems. I have a buddy with a 94 Supra with over 100k and a newer M3. He said the M3 with 17,000 miles on it was a piece of junk compared to the Supra. He babies both vehicles.