O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

Sorry, hate to burst your bubble. Mercedes allowed the ML to be made in Alabama from the same parts used in the CLK, ML, and two other models built in Germany- yet the ML single handedly brought Mercedes reliability down 20 points overall and may retain forever the title of the most horrible build quality of Mercedes history.....made with the exact same engine and running gear, electrics, and other parts used in 3 other models.

llamaboiz

You've brought up some very good points, but no... the failure of a car is a company responsibilty, from the top to the bottom... My family are small business owners and while i do production and have nothing to do with the finish product, i'll take the responsiblity for the final product even thou i didnt have a hand in it... If the assemblers know their putting together cars that have faulty this or faulty that are they not at fault too? Wheres the pride? Guilty by association.

Ok yes BMW is a HUGE company but is what i'm saying unrealistic? Course no-one works harder or takes more pride in their work than those that work for themselves. BUT am i being unrealistic, no i dont think so, after all there are other big companies where even the little man takes pride in their work. *pure speculation there but i may not be wrong*

ST430

1sicklex - i think you nailed it: bmw needs to stop looking at marketing hype with overbloated sales figure if they want to be more profitable. It's great for the average joe to afford to lease a luxury car and take it out to the country club to show off , but it absolutely dilutes the bottom line as well as its exclusivity. Better get your bimmers now before the worsening euro exchange as well as beancounters push ithe line back to fiscal prudency.

mmarshall

In most cases, Udel is correct. Vehicle reliability is mostly a function of the quality of the parts and engineering...and of the accuracy of the automatic robot machines in the plant that do much of the work nowadays.

Much of the unreliability of European vehicles and their electronics has been traced to the poor design of electrical connectors...it is very difficult for assembly-line workers to reach under dashes, seats, etc.....and clip them together simply by feel. Japanese-designed vehicles, on the other hand, have simple, solid connectors that snap firmly in place with an audible click and feel. That is one reason why the under-dash wiring in many German cars gets screwed up.

LexFather

Its management really. I am curious though as to why Lexus would build their plant in Canada and not the USA, IMO, it kind of says something. The RX continues to be one of the best built cars. Acura's are built in Ohio and they are well built but not anything to write home about but for the most part are quality filled and are reliable.

Infiniti builds their QX in Mississippi and it like the ML was the worst thing you could buy. Of course they blamed the workers. So again, another Japanese luxury marque but the quality stinks in comparison to Lexus and Acura's built in N.A.

You HIRED them, you TRAINED them, its managment.

llamaboiz

Well... i'm sure ppl are thinking it but no one is saying it, so i will and you can flame me all you want but i dont really care:

It's the american worker, lazy, dosent take pride in their work and it shows. Wanna get paid for doing the most minimal amount of work possible.

*yes are are exceptions but unfortunately this is the norm*

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Too many hamburgers and hotdogs being consumed ala U.A.W.. Let them go

mmarshall

This is not necessarily a pan on Southern workers, though. Nissan's own sister plant at Smyrna, TN and Saturn's plant just a few miles away at Spring Hill, TN have turned out relatively good vehicles (at least average or better in quality) for years.....as has the Toyota plant at Georgetown, KY, long noted as one of the best in the country. But, yes, the Canton, MS Nissan/Infiniti plant, the Mercedes plant at Tuscaloosa, AL, and the BMW plant at Spartinburg, SC, have had problems. And the problems with Mercedes vehicles have not been limited to Tuscaloosa-built vehicles either....the whole M-B line, even those from Europe, has been tainted for years.

mmarshall

Sounds to me like you are taking the same don't-care attitude as those workers you are accusing of in your post. You're saying exactly the same thing you accuse them of....."You can pan me all you want but I don't care".

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

yet the toyota operated manafacturing facilities in the US are some of the most productive in the world

its the management and poorly run manfacturing line, you wont take pride in anything if you have bad management and are part of a poorly run team. It is a horrible idea to just swing the pink slip stick at your workforce, for sure many of them are talented and skilled and now you will probably lose them to competitor plants and will now work against you at the new job. If you treat them correctly, good quality work will come naturally from your workers, its really simple yet many companies dont get a clue.

LexFather

That is a wrong assumption. Benzs and Land Rovers and VWs are all mostly M MADE IN GERMANY and their quality SUCKS for the most part. Their workers unions might be stronger than the ones here and they have more vacation time and work less hours a week.

Who really is lazy? Sounds like the Germans.

llamaboiz

LOL well duh im an american too. I will complain about this and complain about that but will i get up off my butt and actually do something about it... if it doesnt affect me... its someone elses problem... better you than me pal...

That is the mindset of the land we live in, as i said, i take pride in the work i do, if others dont then theres nothing i can do about it, you cant change ppl. Only way a person changes is either thru some life endangering event or with time...

*there are exceptions yes, unfortunately this is the norm*

LexFather

Then the Accord and Camry are made in America and they have been tops in reliability since day one (problems here and there).

Again, its managment that is the true issue, not the worker. Things are different in Japan, espeically Lexus plants, where a great degree of personal pride is with how they build the car.

That is part of Lexus culture. IF the company culture does not foster than environment, don't expect workers to magically want to build the best cars.



With that said, I like my GS made in Japan thank you!!! lol

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

So are YOU the norm or an exception?

You statement is so sweeping and overgeneralized and, oh yes, flat wrong.

I *would* agree that DETROIT's automakers has had some plants in that area where they fit your profile but ultimately that's a MANAGEMENT problem. Either they're treating the workers badly, not finding or not correcting mistakes when they're discovered, or they're hiring incompetent people or not training them. ALL are management problems. And actually ALL have and are being addressed by Detroit but they dug a HUMONGOUS hole to get out of.

llamaboiz

Look around around your house at your consumer electronics, whats made in asia vs whats made in the usa... why choose a sony over a zenith? why choose a asian brand dvd player over an american one? why choose a car made in japan over one made in america? why do so many american companies outsource their work?

Look i WANT 'Made in the USA' to mean something agian, im not trying to play devils advocate, im just saying things based on my observations of goods from asia vs goods from the us, work ethics sux here and it shows in the final product, no one wants to take responsibility, always pointing fingers at someone else... when does it end?

*edit* newayz this is wayyy OT, and w/e you guys say you know exactly what im talking about...*