Unlike BMW,will Lexus keep the oil dipstick?
12-30-07, 08:44 PM
#61
LOL, its funny, my parents have a Grand Cherokee, and the damn thing keeps saying that one of the tires has low pressure, yet if you check it with tire gauge, the pressure is fine. All these sensors are OK, but a sensor will break more often than a dipstick. It may not matter to these who are leasing these cars while they are still under warranty, but I would hate to own one of these long term or buy a used one. And I bet the resale values of these cars will suffer in the very near future because they will just be too expensive to maintain.
12-31-07, 06:05 AM
#62
I think refilling every 3 months isn't horrible at all. I mean if you don't know how to refill your own washer fluid than in my opinion you don't deserve to own a car. I think a smaller reservoir is smart, it saves a bit of space and lowers your wet weight. I kind of think the same for gas tanks. In my opinion a full gas tank should last you between 1 and 2 weeks (subjective due to how far people drive and how aggressive and what type of traffic they deal with), if a tank is larger than that I think it's extra weight. Think about how much a gallon of gas weighs. Now multiply that by how many gallons your car holds. That's extra weight you don't need all the time. I don't mind filling up my car about every week and getting slightly better gas consumption than filling up less frequently and having extra weight. I'm sure for most cars it's a negligible factor and I'm sure most manufacturer's have thought about this anyway but it just goes to show you that little cuts and corners can shave weight off a car. Now I don't mean cutting corners as in taking the easy way out but something like the windshield washer fluid can be easily replaced by any common person and could do it on a bi-monthly, tri-monthly basis. It doesn't take much time to refill and it's easy to do, unless you are incredibly fussy and never want to do deal with your car at all and rather have everything be done every 6 months.
12-31-07, 08:29 AM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SF
Posts: 6,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think refilling every 3 months isn't horrible at all. I mean if you don't know how to refill your own washer fluid than in my opinion you don't deserve to own a car. I think a smaller reservoir is smart, it saves a bit of space and lowers your wet weight. I kind of think the same for gas tanks. In my opinion a full gas tank should last you between 1 and 2 weeks (subjective due to how far people drive and how aggressive and what type of traffic they deal with), if a tank is larger than that I think it's extra weight. Think about how much a gallon of gas weighs. Now multiply that by how many gallons your car holds. That's extra weight you don't need all the time. I don't mind filling up my car about every week and getting slightly better gas consumption than filling up less frequently and having extra weight. I'm sure for most cars it's a negligible factor and I'm sure most manufacturer's have thought about this anyway but it just goes to show you that little cuts and corners can shave weight off a car. Now I don't mean cutting corners as in taking the easy way out but something like the windshield washer fluid can be easily replaced by any common person and could do it on a bi-monthly, tri-monthly basis. It doesn't take much time to refill and it's easy to do, unless you are incredibly fussy and never want to do deal with your car at all and rather have everything be done every 6 months.
So my question is unanswered. Will Lexus keeps the larger windshield washer reservoir unlike BMW?
12-31-07, 10:54 AM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
You know what's funny? I really don't remember filling up any washer fluid in my IS at all, and I've own that car for over 2 years now. X5 runs out the washer fluid in 3 months. I can empty the full tank of gas in 3 days with normal commute. Still getting 12mpg after 6000 miles on the ODO.
So my question is unanswered. Will Lexus keeps the larger windshield washer reservoir unlike BMW?
So my question is unanswered. Will Lexus keeps the larger windshield washer reservoir unlike BMW?
Let me add this though. It maybe possible the BMWs have small tanks to save weight and to help with weight distribution.
12-31-07, 07:01 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
We saw the same thing 25 years ago, in the early 1980's, when a number of manufacturers (most notably GM) starting using digital speedometers and gauge packages. The public, as a whole, complained so much that they were dropped and replaced once again with analog displays, though a few domestic luxury cars like the Cadillac DeVille and Lincoln Town car kept them for awhile. And in some cases, we ended up with electronic analog displays, which combined the best of both worlds (that's how the white Lexus back-lit electroluminescent analog displays got started). And, even today, analog readouts with electronic lighting still predominate in most vehicles simply because that is what most of the public wants. In fact, Toyota/Scion and Saturn have mistakenly persisted in their center-gauge layout for the Yaris, Ion, xA, and xB.....all four vehicles have sold fairly well, but would have sold even better with conventional gauges behind the steering wheel.....their dash quirkiness has cost them at least some sales.
The point is, doug...........computers have done some marvelous things over the years in cars, especially with EFI and electronic engine/transmission controls, but they clearly are not the answer to everything.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-31-07 at 07:07 PM.
01-02-08, 02:07 PM
#66
Yet the Prius and the new Civic are back to digital gauges (The early Aerio models had digital gauges too but reverted back to analogue).
I also don't get the point of a digital image of an analogue gauge in the new S-Class lol.
Also, how do those electroluminescent gauges work?
I also don't get the point of a digital image of an analogue gauge in the new S-Class lol.
Also, how do those electroluminescent gauges work?
01-03-08, 05:42 PM
#67
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, I don't think so. For the most part, they won't disappear. BMW might try it, but most of the public won't accept it.
We saw the same thing 25 years ago, in the early 1980's, when a number of manufacturers (most notably GM) starting using digital speedometers and gauge packages. The public, as a whole, complained so much that they were dropped and replaced once again with analog displays, though a few domestic luxury cars like the Cadillac DeVille and Lincoln Town car kept them for awhile. And in some cases, we ended up with electronic analog displays, which combined the best of both worlds (that's how the white Lexus back-lit electroluminescent analog displays got started). And, even today, analog readouts with electronic lighting still predominate in most vehicles simply because that is what most of the public wants. In fact, Toyota/Scion and Saturn have mistakenly persisted in their center-gauge layout for the Yaris, Ion, xA, and xB.....all four vehicles have sold fairly well, but would have sold even better with conventional gauges behind the steering wheel.....their dash quirkiness has cost them at least some sales.
The point is, doug...........computers have done some marvelous things over the years in cars, especially with EFI and electronic engine/transmission controls, but they clearly are not the answer to everything.
We saw the same thing 25 years ago, in the early 1980's, when a number of manufacturers (most notably GM) starting using digital speedometers and gauge packages. The public, as a whole, complained so much that they were dropped and replaced once again with analog displays, though a few domestic luxury cars like the Cadillac DeVille and Lincoln Town car kept them for awhile. And in some cases, we ended up with electronic analog displays, which combined the best of both worlds (that's how the white Lexus back-lit electroluminescent analog displays got started). And, even today, analog readouts with electronic lighting still predominate in most vehicles simply because that is what most of the public wants. In fact, Toyota/Scion and Saturn have mistakenly persisted in their center-gauge layout for the Yaris, Ion, xA, and xB.....all four vehicles have sold fairly well, but would have sold even better with conventional gauges behind the steering wheel.....their dash quirkiness has cost them at least some sales.
The point is, doug...........computers have done some marvelous things over the years in cars, especially with EFI and electronic engine/transmission controls, but they clearly are not the answer to everything.
So anyway, stand by for the next couple of years and we will see who is correct. Betcha a drink.
01-03-08, 05:53 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
You are correct that some of the dipsticks may go in the short run, but the public won't accept it. They'll be back.
Public action CAN change auto design if it is forceful enough. You may or may not be old enough (as I am) to clearly remember the attempt in early 1974 by the government to force starter-interlock systems in new cars that immobilized the starter if both persons in the front seats did not have their belts buckled up. Well, suddenly, there were millions of new cars that wouldn't crank because Mom put a bag of groceries on the seat, turned the key, and was greeted with silence..........the interlock couldn't figure out a human from a pet, bag of groceries, or almost anything else sitting on the seat. Not surprisingly, there was an outcry from the public loud enough to shake Congress right off its foundations, and the law was repealed as fast as it was passed.
In fact, some people didn't even wait for a new law........they just got out the wire clippers.
01-03-08, 06:03 PM
#69
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen's bet....I don't drink.
You are correct that some of the dipsticks may go in the short run, but the public won't accept it. They'll be back.
Public action CAN change auto design if it is forceful enough. You may or may not be old enough (as I am) to clearly remember the attempt in early 1974 by the government to force starter-interlock systems in new cars that immobilized the starter if both persons in the front seats did not have their belts buckled up. Well, suddenly, there were millions of new cars that wouldn't crank because Mom put a bag of groceries on the seat, turned the key, and was greeted with silence..........the interlock couldn't figure out a human from a pet, bag of groceries, or almost anything else sitting on the seat. Not surprisingly, there was an outcry from the public loud enough to shake Congress right off its foundations, and the law was repealed as fast as it was passed.
In fact, some people didn't even wait for a new law........they just got out the wire clippers.
You are correct that some of the dipsticks may go in the short run, but the public won't accept it. They'll be back.
Public action CAN change auto design if it is forceful enough. You may or may not be old enough (as I am) to clearly remember the attempt in early 1974 by the government to force starter-interlock systems in new cars that immobilized the starter if both persons in the front seats did not have their belts buckled up. Well, suddenly, there were millions of new cars that wouldn't crank because Mom put a bag of groceries on the seat, turned the key, and was greeted with silence..........the interlock couldn't figure out a human from a pet, bag of groceries, or almost anything else sitting on the seat. Not surprisingly, there was an outcry from the public loud enough to shake Congress right off its foundations, and the law was repealed as fast as it was passed.
In fact, some people didn't even wait for a new law........they just got out the wire clippers.
So right back at you with...
Where the H is the transmission dipstick on the new ES350? (rumor has it they have removed it!!!)
and...
What about the interlock where you have to press the brake pedal before moving the gearshifter?
The fact is that 99% of the population does not check their oil with a dipstick - CAUSE THEY DON'T CHECK IT. Watch, it is a thing of the past.
01-03-08, 06:14 PM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Well I think I just figured out your problem
So right back at you with...
Where the H is the transmission dipstick on the new ES350? (rumor has it they have removed it!!!)
and...
What about the interlock where you have to press the brake pedal before moving the gearshifter?
The fact is that 99% of the population does not check their oil with a dipstick - CAUSE THEY DON'T CHECK IT. Watch, it is a thing of the past.
So right back at you with...
Where the H is the transmission dipstick on the new ES350? (rumor has it they have removed it!!!)
and...
What about the interlock where you have to press the brake pedal before moving the gearshifter?
The fact is that 99% of the population does not check their oil with a dipstick - CAUSE THEY DON'T CHECK IT. Watch, it is a thing of the past.
The brake pedal-starter interlock system you are referring to is far different from the 1974 system that completely shut down the starter no matter what you had in the front seat of any significant weight. That was a real pain in the a**.......and why the public outcry was so great. The brake pedal issue is very minor......all you have to do is tap the pedal and you're good to go. That's a lot different from having to get out and rearrange a bunch of stuff, sometimes on both front and rear seats, just to get the starter nanny to work.
And, since you bring it up, as far as sheer numbers go......99% of the public probably doesn't check tire pressures often enough either (in the cars without the sensors). Does that mean we do away with inflatable tires and go back to solid rubber ones like on the earliest cars at the end of the 19th century? And even the new tire-pressure sensors have problems of their own.......false alarms and other malfunctions not associated with tire pressure are causing a number of complaints.
So right back at you with...
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-03-08 at 06:21 PM.
01-03-08, 07:18 PM
#71
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, there have been a lot of complaints with the new ES350....just rack up one more. But I think I remember seing on on the ES350 I reviewed.
The brake pedal-starter interlock system you are referring to is far different from the 1974 system that completely shut down the starter no matter what you had in the front seat of any significant weight. That was a real pain in the a**.......and why the public outcry was so great. The brake pedal issue is very minor......all you have to do is tap the pedal and you're good to go. That's a lot different from having to get out and rearrange a bunch of stuff, sometimes on both front and rear seats, just to get the starter nanny to work.
And, since you bring it up, as far as sheer numbers go......99% of the public probably doesn't check tire pressures often enough either (in the cars without the sensors). Does that mean we do away with inflatable tires and go back to solid rubber ones like on the earliest cars at the end of the 19th century? And even the new tire-pressure sensors have problems of their own.......false alarms and other malfunctions not associated with tire pressure are causing a number of complaints.
I was not aware we were tossing anything AT each other. We are two mature, grown adults......and car enthusiasts.....that respect each other's viewpoint.
The brake pedal-starter interlock system you are referring to is far different from the 1974 system that completely shut down the starter no matter what you had in the front seat of any significant weight. That was a real pain in the a**.......and why the public outcry was so great. The brake pedal issue is very minor......all you have to do is tap the pedal and you're good to go. That's a lot different from having to get out and rearrange a bunch of stuff, sometimes on both front and rear seats, just to get the starter nanny to work.
And, since you bring it up, as far as sheer numbers go......99% of the public probably doesn't check tire pressures often enough either (in the cars without the sensors). Does that mean we do away with inflatable tires and go back to solid rubber ones like on the earliest cars at the end of the 19th century? And even the new tire-pressure sensors have problems of their own.......false alarms and other malfunctions not associated with tire pressure are causing a number of complaints.
I was not aware we were tossing anything AT each other. We are two mature, grown adults......and car enthusiasts.....that respect each other's viewpoint.
I've seen tire pressure sensors malfunction in my sister's old Quest (and they gave 2002 745 owners fits as well). Most of the new ones are pretty reliable and I sure appreciated having one on my wife's MDX on New Years day as it told me I was about to have a flat (even though it was only 3 degrees outside and the last thing I wanted to do was change a tire). Even so, you need a way to add air just like you need a way to add oil and yes, even trans fluid. Alas, as pointed out by Och, if you don't trust the system then it doesn't work for you - on your current car and/or your next car.
Please note the right back at you was just a separator between my "Well I think I just figured out your problem" which was in jest vs. the rest of my post that was in response to yours.
01-03-08, 07:29 PM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
OK. If dipsticks go away, they go away. If they don't, they don't. Not worth arguing over any more.....we've already made a lot of posts. We are just two opinions...like I said, the public itself, on a much broader scale, will decide it they come back or not.
Take care....talk to you later. It's late, and I'm going to catch the Iowa results.
Take care....talk to you later. It's late, and I'm going to catch the Iowa results.
01-04-08, 04:53 PM
#75
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stop a Lexus owner on the street some day and ask them if they have ever checked their oil with the dipstick.....(rumor has it in the new LS you can do it without)....