Will the next Supra have the GT-R as its benchmark?
12-30-07, 12:21 PM
#1
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Will the next Supra have the GT-R as its benchmark?
Well while Toyota is talking it, we have to give Nissan credit for walking it. THe GT-R reviews and specs are in and the car is total kick ***.
Now we have threads on the next Supra and the last we heard it will be a hybrid with around 400hp
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/03/s...-hybrid-power/
Now the Supra and GT-R (and NSX) were all fighting one another in the 1990s. The Supra just out muscled the 300ZX, RX-7 and 3000GT at the time. It was more on par with the GT-R and NSX.
My thought or question is, will Toyota now go after the GT-R with the Supra? Or will they keep it as a hybrid and more 350Z competitor.
What about the LF-A? Well the price estimate is at least 140k, which is twice as much as a GT-R and its intent it to take on Ferrari, Aston, etc.
Now we have threads on the next Supra and the last we heard it will be a hybrid with around 400hp
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/03/s...-hybrid-power/
Now the Supra and GT-R (and NSX) were all fighting one another in the 1990s. The Supra just out muscled the 300ZX, RX-7 and 3000GT at the time. It was more on par with the GT-R and NSX.
My thought or question is, will Toyota now go after the GT-R with the Supra? Or will they keep it as a hybrid and more 350Z competitor.
What about the LF-A? Well the price estimate is at least 140k, which is twice as much as a GT-R and its intent it to take on Ferrari, Aston, etc.
12-30-07, 01:16 PM
#6
Supra and GTR stood out because of the amazing aftermarket support and potential. As much as I love the NSX, it is just too expensive for a strong aftermarket demand. In the end, GTRs and RX7s, even Supras can outrun NSXs on the track with their sheer power and various forms of aftermarket equipment.
There has always been talks of a Hybrid Supra. I think it's 100% do-able, considering how well Toyota did with their Hybrid MKIV at the Tokachi 24 hr race.
And as of now, it seems like the GTR will be hard to mod, at least in the turbo section. It's all about factory performance now..... but I hope it doesn't turn out that way. 
12-30-07, 07:57 PM
#7
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Supra is never coming back. Toyota has no ***** there days. They are in whole different game than they were back in the 90's.
Why put R&D money into a car that won't sell well, or doesn't align with their brand image. Toyota is all about clean and green image. Nissan needed GTR for their image. Toyota doesn't. What they need is 100mpg next generation Prius, and they are too busy making that.
Why put R&D money into a car that won't sell well, or doesn't align with their brand image. Toyota is all about clean and green image. Nissan needed GTR for their image. Toyota doesn't. What they need is 100mpg next generation Prius, and they are too busy making that.
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12-30-07, 08:33 PM
#8
I've read rumors that the next Supra if they do decide to build it, will probably use the 3.5L V6 from the GS and IS350 and tuned to produce around 350hp. It will also be N/A. I can't recall the source that I read this from but all they had along with the article were some rough sketches. Does anybody else here read that same article? It might have been from a R&T article earlier this year.
12-30-07, 09:10 PM
#9
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Supra is never coming back. Toyota has no ***** there days. They are in whole different game than they were back in the 90's.
Why put R&D money into a car that won't sell well, or doesn't align with their brand image. Toyota is all about clean and green image. Nissan needed GTR for their image. Toyota doesn't. What they need is 100mpg next generation Prius, and they are too busy making that.
Why put R&D money into a car that won't sell well, or doesn't align with their brand image. Toyota is all about clean and green image. Nissan needed GTR for their image. Toyota doesn't. What they need is 100mpg next generation Prius, and they are too busy making that.
its an image and money thing for toyota
cant knock them for it because thats what companies are here for....
...but they're obviously not for driving enthusiasts.
nissan, mazda, honda however... different story.
12-30-07, 11:12 PM
#11
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Doubt they will make another Supra, they want every car they make to be very successful or sell x amount and if it doesn't they drop it. They do not want niche cars that don't sell in huge numbers. Toyota is not a company for enthusiast or maker of interesting fun performance cars anymore. They are completely happy with mass sales of boring uninspired vehicles and who could blame them with all their success. Any high performance/drivers car for enthusiasts will go straight to Lexus thus making it very expensive and unaffordable to most enthusiasts unless they buy it used.
If Toyota does try to go for a green hybrid Supra thing then it will not be able to touch the Skyline aside from maybe a quick zero to sixty sprint by which it will have exerted its instant torque advantage from the batteries and will be just towing a bunch of dead weight and operating at 60% power for any kind of long distance runs or track/course use. I don't know why Toyota would put a hybrid in a sports car but that seems the route they are going if they do it, sometimes being different is not good and hybrids are extremely poor choices for sports cars.
Toyota has the money and resources to make a sports car/Supra replacement on a stiff rwd chasis and either tune the v-8 in the ISF for more horsepower either by NA or adding a turbo, make a new v-8 specifically for a high performance sports car, or even building a new flat 6 or using a Subura flat 6 for a high performance car since they have been talking of partnering up with Subaru and turbocharging that flat6 to over 400hp and then sell it for under 50K, but it is something we can just hope for and something they will never do because a car like that would be a huge to enthusiasts but will still not sell in Camry/Corolla/RAV4/Tundra numbers. If we get a "Supra" replacement it is either going to be a v6/hybrid powerplant or a tuned IS350 v-6 to about 330hp which is not going to be able to compete against cars like the GTR, 911, Corvette like the last Supra could. The last Supra was Toyotas last real sports car and there is probrably not going to be anything like it coming from Toyota.
The GTR will be in its own category because it will be priced at 70K and offer performance in par with the much more expensive 911 turbo but it will use a front engined turbo v6 and be an awd four seat 2 door coupe. Only the Corvette offers close to what the GTR offers somewhat near its price but does so in a totally different way v8 rwd, light weight, 2 seat, cost cut interior/pushrod engine for low price. The Lexus and Acura sports cars will be much more expensive, more or less competing only with exotics because of price and exlusivity and being sold under upscale brands, use v10s, be more luxury oriented.
I would also put the original NSX in its own category because it was a mid engine handbuilt expensive exotic designed mainly to compete against the Ferrari 348(which it soundly beat) which was also a hand built mid engine expensive exotic and to a lesser extent made to compete against the higher end Porsche 911. The Skyline GTR, 300zx, rx-7, 3000GT, were designed more to compete with each other as well as Corvettes,944 turbos, base 911s, M3s, which are a bit of a step down in price and performance then what the NSX was designed and priced to compete against. Those Japanese cars were front engined turbo cars that were much more obtainable and not considered exotics and in a different category then the NSX.
If Toyota does try to go for a green hybrid Supra thing then it will not be able to touch the Skyline aside from maybe a quick zero to sixty sprint by which it will have exerted its instant torque advantage from the batteries and will be just towing a bunch of dead weight and operating at 60% power for any kind of long distance runs or track/course use. I don't know why Toyota would put a hybrid in a sports car but that seems the route they are going if they do it, sometimes being different is not good and hybrids are extremely poor choices for sports cars.
Toyota has the money and resources to make a sports car/Supra replacement on a stiff rwd chasis and either tune the v-8 in the ISF for more horsepower either by NA or adding a turbo, make a new v-8 specifically for a high performance sports car, or even building a new flat 6 or using a Subura flat 6 for a high performance car since they have been talking of partnering up with Subaru and turbocharging that flat6 to over 400hp and then sell it for under 50K, but it is something we can just hope for and something they will never do because a car like that would be a huge to enthusiasts but will still not sell in Camry/Corolla/RAV4/Tundra numbers. If we get a "Supra" replacement it is either going to be a v6/hybrid powerplant or a tuned IS350 v-6 to about 330hp which is not going to be able to compete against cars like the GTR, 911, Corvette like the last Supra could. The last Supra was Toyotas last real sports car and there is probrably not going to be anything like it coming from Toyota.
The GTR will be in its own category because it will be priced at 70K and offer performance in par with the much more expensive 911 turbo but it will use a front engined turbo v6 and be an awd four seat 2 door coupe. Only the Corvette offers close to what the GTR offers somewhat near its price but does so in a totally different way v8 rwd, light weight, 2 seat, cost cut interior/pushrod engine for low price. The Lexus and Acura sports cars will be much more expensive, more or less competing only with exotics because of price and exlusivity and being sold under upscale brands, use v10s, be more luxury oriented.
I would also put the original NSX in its own category because it was a mid engine handbuilt expensive exotic designed mainly to compete against the Ferrari 348(which it soundly beat) which was also a hand built mid engine expensive exotic and to a lesser extent made to compete against the higher end Porsche 911. The Skyline GTR, 300zx, rx-7, 3000GT, were designed more to compete with each other as well as Corvettes,944 turbos, base 911s, M3s, which are a bit of a step down in price and performance then what the NSX was designed and priced to compete against. Those Japanese cars were front engined turbo cars that were much more obtainable and not considered exotics and in a different category then the NSX.
12-30-07, 11:16 PM
#12
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Toyota is becoming very conservative now with their whole MPG/hybrid thing.
Seeing a Supra will certainly be exciting. I myself would consider buying one.
But as far as competition, I doubt they will make it compete with the GTR, It will be more in range of a 350z or something like that with 300-400hp.
On the other hand, I hope we are all wrong and they bring out a monstrous Supra to wipe out the NSX and the GTR
Seeing a Supra will certainly be exciting. I myself would consider buying one.
But as far as competition, I doubt they will make it compete with the GTR, It will be more in range of a 350z or something like that with 300-400hp.
On the other hand, I hope we are all wrong and they bring out a monstrous Supra to wipe out the NSX and the GTR
12-31-07, 02:11 AM
#15
I think if there is a next Supra, it has every right to compete against the GT-R. I really dont think of the GT-R as a "supercar" per se as we do with the Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, the LF-A, etc. I think the GT-R is more along the lines of an upper echelon GT car/sports car; a car that is practical for everyday driving and a superb track car. At $70K, the price also does not suggest "Supercar" IMO rather it suggest an upper end GT/sports car al a the Corvette and the Carrera. I think, however, if the "next Supra" tries to compete with the GT-R and consequently does so in price as well, Toyota will have missed the real intended market with this one.