Mr Johnson

A lot has been talked about since the last time I checked this thread but let me add my comments to these.

Exactly right. The world has passed the existing Northstar by. That is why the new V6 is so popular. Why pay more for nothing in return? Lexus did the same thing with the GS430 and it's a good thing they finally put the new V8 in there.

This is one of my problems with the CAFE issue. The cost will be a problem. Can anyone here really justify in a cost breakdown why a diesel engine costs almost $1500 more to produce than a gasoline engine? How much do you think these additional technologies are going to cost? Where do you think that money is going to come from? In the end the money is going to be coming out of the consumers (that we be "our") pockets.

Do you really believe that the new CAFE rules will lower oil use? Do you realize how many more cars are on the road now vs. 10 years ago? Those additional cars use gas (oil) too. This trend appears to be holding meaning that even with CAFE oil use will still go up! You want people to stop using oil? Tax the heck out of it or limit consumption (did I just say ration?). In a free economy know what that means? Price goes way up! IMO that is how you use less oil not CAFE.

mmarshall

Yes, that's true, flip......and I've said, in earlier posts, that I didn't think Caddy (or GM) would drop V8's for its big, ful-size trucks and SUV's either.

mmarshall

Yes.....there are more cars on the road now (and there will likely be more 10 years from now as well) but the CAFE rules will probably make a difference anyway. The last ones did.....Just imagine what our oil use would be if all the cars on the road TODAY got the same average mileage they did before the CAFE rules of the 1970's.

So, thy may or may not actually lower oil use, but they WILL check its growth.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

The V-Series cars will have V8's for sure. 525hp V8 CTS-V is on the way

mmarshall

An honest difference of opinion among us, that's all. Not all of us crave high-performance, and feel that the RL has an adequate level of performance considering its weight, sturdy construction (by today's standards the car, inside and out, is built like a tank), and its intended use......it is not a racing car or super-sports sedan. In fact, that is one of the things that may be affecting its 0-60 times....this car has QUALITY, heavy-duty construction inside and out. You won't find hardly any cheap, flimsy parts in this car....even in interior trim where you do in so many others. I drive and review a lot of cars....this one, easily, is one of the 10 Best I've ever done (yes, the LS460 and GS 300/350 AWD are also on that list).

However, trust me...........we DO respect your views as well. I know that you, Henry, and others are adament that it should have a V8.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

I agree, I think this just means not DOHC V8s from Cadillac, they'll just use pushrod engines derived from the LS line. They're just trying to reduce costs in developing a new engine.
NVH?

I'm sure the LS has a better emissions and fuel consumption rating though.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

And while it's dismissed by many import fans as 'old junk', the pushrod stuff actually offers some ADVANTAGES like much smaller packaging, low center of gravity and high reliability. Many race car engines are pushrod!

Noise, vibration, and harshness. An abbreviation often used when discussing the smoothness of an engine. Not only dependent on the engine itself but also the engine mounts, other sound proofing and vibration control systems.

V6's have inherent challenges of NVH because of the 3 cylinders a side being an odd number. Balance shafts and other techniques are used to minimize this.

If you drive a V6 vs. a V8 version of the same car, they're night and day (except at idle where many manufacturers have ensured almost any engine is quiet and smooth)

Mr Johnson

QFT!

The development costs are IMO the major reason for this.

SLegacy99

The AMC Pacer got 16 mpg city, 26 hwy and put out 120 hp. Ouch.

mmarshall

Depends on what kind of racing you are talking about.....pushrod engines are more RPM-limited than OHC's, but another advantage you didn't mention is that they have more torque at lower RPM, which is what many American drivers want. OHC engines need more RPM's to produce max torque and HP.

The reason that push-rod engines are more RPM-limited is that the lower-mount camshaft, upper and lower pushrods, and rocker arms combine at high RPM's to cause valve float. That is not a problem with the simpler, more direct OHC/cam lobe valve actuation.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Interesting, thanks. NASCAR engines are pushrod, and they seem to be screaming! Apparently about 9000rpms!

RON430

If you looked at the Chevy small blocks, starting I think with what they called the SB2, you would see how they redesigned things to stay pushrod for NASCAR rules but the geometry radically changed to reduce the length/mass of the moving parts in the valve train and produced engines that could wind high and not run into problems.

While the original press release says that the future of Cadillac V8s is uncertain, everyone here seems to be rushing to the conclusion that Caddy will not have V8s and I definitely do not agree. What was unusual about the Northstar was that Caddy developed it and it had limited applicability to other models which made it very difficult to justify. Chevy is still doing some nifty V8s and of course Holden is being drawn upon more and more by GM performance so I just read the release to mean that Caddy will use corporate V8s but not develop one of its own. The release just says they are not developing a new V8, not that Caddy has decided to not make any V8 models in the future. Of course, that press release may follow in short order but for now I read it to mean that there will just not be a Caddy designed, limited use V8 developed, nothing more.

mmarshall

There's a reason why NASCAR engines turn higher RPM's than street versions of pushrod V8's. RON430 has touched on part of it.

ST430

before you jump on that boat, remember that NASCAR as well as the NHRA mandates pushrods to discourage technology wars and to keep costs down. They want to concentrate on racing and the drivers....

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

The new Pontiac G8 is using a variant of the GM LS motor. I can see Caddy doing the same for the non V series STS, XLR & SRX.