bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I disagree. For one thing, the Genesis LOOKS great. You can say it's subjective, fine, and derivative, yes, but I think its looks are 'outstanding' - and WAY better than the ES350 for example. More elegant, better wheel fitment, less gangly front hangover, etc. The ES looks ok from the back and that's about it. No doubt you'll defend the ES to the end of the earth as superior in every way, and that's your prerogative. FWD, boat like handling, lame interior... knock yourself out.

Well for one neither of those offer a V8 (except the upcoming CTS-V but that's a whole different type of vehicle.

TRDFantasy

To be honest, I'm not that big of a fan of the ES350. The ES350 looks decent, not great but decent. The Genesis looks too derivative. At least the ES looks like a Lexus. But you're right, the styling is subjective and some may like the styling.

Other than styling, can you actually point out anything special or outstanding about the Genesis? I sure can't. It's almost formulaically derivative. It's as if Hyundai put the major features, options, and specifications into the Genesis for it to be competitive, and nothing more. The fact that it will be sold with no badge on the front grill only makes things worse.

GFerg

I"ve read different.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/18/h...and-awareness/


I for one am excited for Hyundai. I think this will be a great vehicle for them. Some might not see anything special about it, but I see it as Hyundai's first big step to improving brand awareness and gaining market share. By looking at the information available to us right now, I see no reason why it wont be competitive and honestly IMO puts many cars in its price class to shame.

UDel

What is outstanding or special about the S class, 7 series, LS, or Audi A8? Sure the Lexus LS460 has an 8 speed auto(which seems more like overkill) and a powerful hybrid option(which really does not do anything better then the non hybrid version, the performance/mileage numbers are very similiar because of all the added hybrid weight and the thousands extra you pay for the hybrid model hugely offsets any little gas savings you might get). I don't see anything really outstanding or special with the S class, it just has its name and history, the 7 series just handles a decent for a big lux sedan, and the A8 just has a nice interior. Although the Genesis generally does not look quite as nice inside or out as the competition and may not have some options but I would not say the competition is really all that special to where it would be such an easy decision to spend well over twice as much for basically a more prestigious brand, subjectly nicer interiors/exteriors, and maybe some slightly superior specs like 7,8 speed trannies, hybrid/v12 options, a few other things you can't get on the Genesis like reclining rear seats with audio(which are really expensive options).

If I was not paying for the car then yes I would choose a S class, A8, 7 series, or LS over the Genesis but if I was paying it would be totally different and very hard to justify spending so much more on the other cars. I just don't see what makes the competition so much better that it would be worth paying over twice as much for, sure I can see maybe paying an extra 5-7K for the better specs and options but what makes a S class so great or worth spending 90K on it when you can have a very similiar car for 35K and one that will most likely be much more reliable? At 35K the Genesis is alot of car for your money and a great deal and certainly worth the money considering specs and it is done properly, at 80-90K a S class or other car in its class is just way overpriced and the car is just not worth anywhere near that, you would be surprised just how much you are paying just for that badge.

LexFather

I have to say the major advantage IMO, on paper for the ES, is, well its a Lexus.The badge. The Genesis seems to have it beat.

I prefer RWD to FWD anyday and we are talking a V-8 with 100 more hp than the V-6 ES.

I am sure there will not be an ES exodus to the GEnesis but I am sure a few buyers who are not concerned about image will choose it.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I think the no badge on the front hood is a great idea. I'm one of those that want to debadge every car there is. I hate plastic badges on cars. Too me that just ruins the looks.

Anyway, so far every person I showed pics and specs of the Genesis to really liked it. It isn't until they actually learn it is a Hyundai that some of them are disappointed by it being a Hyundai. Most others are surprised it is a Hyundai.

Now, how that turns into actual sales is yet to be seen, but if it were not for the Hyundai name, nearly everyone I've done my little test on love the car. The car itself is not a hang up with most people. It is the Hyundai name. If people can just get has "It's a Hyundai" they would realize this car is a good car. Especially for a first time attempt.

LexFather

Errrrr, I'm sorry, the LS/S-class/A8 and 7 are superb. They are VERY VERY special.

I can't even consider a Genesis with those cars.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

IMHO, the only car in the $30-$40K range that the Genesis doesn't have beat is the Infiniti G35S.

LexFather

Yes cause the new G, the G8 beats it

G35 is no doubt sportier but IMO, it has it beat too.

We are truly lucky to have so many fantastic cars in the 30-45k range, just impressive. Everyone has stepped their game up.

15 years ago.
Hyundai was crap
Infiniti was crap
Acura was not crap
Pontiac was crap
Lexus was

Today for the most part, they are all at least

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

The V8 power for one thing, at that price. Very impressive. And I know you keep bringing up the G8 but that's a pushrod V8 in a boy racer package - totally different.

Now it could turn out that the Genesis really doesn't drive very well or very quickly for whatever reasons... I'd say Hyundai's biggest liability is inexperience and that may keep buyers away too.

True, and, gee, that's what most car companies do. The 'innovations' usually come at the high end and then trickle down.

The G35, CTS, IS, ES, GS, A6, C, E, all have a similar feature set in slightly different sizes and flavors.

The G35 for example, doesn't innovate as far as I know, but it offers a great combination of features, style, and performance and price. I think that's where the Genesis has potential, but we'll see.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

What you get in those vehicles is the result of accumulated experience and wisdom. That's not just hype, it's real. You get the result of car companies finding out what DOESN'T work for decades. That experience is invaluable.

Whenever I'm in a Mercedes or a BMW, there's always something I find that's neat and unexpected and "why don't others do that?" comes to mind. Well it's because they've been doing it so long.

My neighbor has a few years old MB E500 that I was in just last night. I sat in the back for the first time, and first off I was REALLY surprised how much leg room it has back there. Miraculous. Then I was surprised that the BACK seat occupants each have temperature settings and fan speed for climate control. Maybe a new LS has that but I don't think a GS or other 'mid' range luxury car does. The E has air vents on the back of the center door pillars so rear occupants get air not only from back of the center console but also at face height from the door pillars. The rear window switches were auto down and auto up (I believe my GS400 didn't have that in the back, but I could be wrong). Instead of the simple dome light or two in the ceiling it has these big 'halo' type lights that glow softly even when all the doors are closed and the car is moving which provide ambient light all the time. It's very nice and unique. The transmission shifts were as seamless as any I've experienced (I haven't been for a ride/drive in an LS460 yet though).

So I doubt Hyundai in their first salvo in this battle is going to hit a bulls-eye. It takes a long time.

-J-P-L-

329 posts so far about a new Hyundai on a Lexus forum.

I think Hyundai is doing something right.

STIG

I agree. 22 pages so far.

One thing I hope to see is that Lexus will take this seriously and we will see better lexus products in the future.

LexBob2

Some sales results from '07:
145,568 Sonata
473,108 Camry
392,321 Accord

21,948 Azera
82,923 Lucerne
82,867 ES350
72,945 Avalon

41,476 Tucson
319,160 CRV
172,752 RAV4

If sales history is any indication, my 2 cents/guess is that Genesis will be well received, offer a lot for the money and capture a nice niche in its segment, but not be a sales leader right out of the box. In 5-10 years, who knows?

ES350Bob

Well, here is my view of the potential of the Genesis.

First, I'd rather it be an American company about to offer something like it that is very appealing as it seems to be to many to go look at.

Second, I have thought about how things have been said of it, how it may have been copied from this or that, it's stuck in it's own brand Hyundai as though that is somehow not a good thing.

IF Nissan wasn't also Infiniti, then Nissan would be accused of copying Infiniti and trying to offer something to compete with Infiniti and there would be folks saying that Nissan is no Infiniti and I would not buy it. Same if Toyota was never also Lexus, toyota would be accused of trying to piggyback Lexus with it's Camry V6. And same for Honda never also Acura.

Now here comes Hyundai, and within it's own Hyundai line offers something very competitive to all of the aforementioned and then some, BRAVO to them and maybe as a result it will be very good for the industry in general.