kit cat

iTrader: (6)

I've ridden in the current Mercedes-Benz S350 but it was a really nice car....S350 is a V6 right?

UDel

With 6 cylinders today putting out 280hp and more I think they would be fine in a Sclass, A8, 7 series, LS, and those cars with 6 cylinders would not feel underpowered and have plenty of passing power. It would be nice to get less expensive more fuel efficient versions of a Lexus SC, Merc SL, CLS, CL, 6 series, Jag XK, etc. Just like with mid size lux cars where v8s don't make up a large percentage of sales I bet those larger cars with 6 cylinders would sell in much higher numbers with the v6 versions eclispsing the v8 versions even in America. Less expensive more fuel efficient versions of large lux cars and coupes with 6cylinders putting out 280+hp I think would be welcome especially with how way overpriced they are getting and with how much gas is these days.

Shawnmack

Lexus don't need to put a V6 in the LS. That would be stupid. I mean if you can afford a $75,000 car Honestly I don't think $3 gallon of gas will put a dent in your pocket book.

RX_330

Nah, the Merc engine that did that was the 600 V12 before the turbo setup.

Merc brought the SWB S350 near the end of the W220s run. I don't think it sold too well.

I'd love a V6, but in a heavy, LWB flagship, that just wouldn't cut it for me. I'd miss the noise, smoothness, torque of a V8 so much.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

agree, fact is, most people who can afford 80k for those luxury cars, they don't care that much for gas. and i am really against the idea of putting v6 in the top of the line flagship. yes, i am against v6 in the s class.

after owning so many v8, and now the gs350, really, my wife and i miss the tq

LexFather

Also, Lexus sold 35k LSs with only V-8 power. If it had a V-6, they might double that quantity.

Again, we can't really compare the Euro and American market b/c we are very different and have been for years.
1. Europeans are taxed on anything auto related. Their emissions tax in some countries is big. Thus small engines RULE. Diesels rule.
2. Gas prices in Europe have ALWAYS been much higher than in America. We were SPOILED, thus never needing small engines until the 1970s. Well after that, gas dropped again and prices were LOW LOW LOW until recently. So people bought big engines.
3. America is HUGE in comparison to Europe, tons more roads, bigger roads, we don't do small here.
4. Euro companies built their REPUTATION here by selling their biggest and best, not their smallest and most fuel efficient.

tex2670

Well--lets see what happens in the next few years, as the new CAFE standards start to loom closer. It's an easy and quick fix to produce fewer V8 models, but replace them with higher output V6's.

tex2670

Just take the LS Hybrid--$30,000 extra, and there's 1mpg difference (and AWD). I know they aren't flying out of showrooms, but seriously, who's buying that?

IS350jet

It's the 50 HP advantage that they're buying, not the the fuel mileage, although, the gas mileage is a nice plus. (50 more HP and same mileage)

Koma

iTrader: (3)

The first set of 600hL's are spoken for, go ahead and try to find one for sale.
It's about prestige, a lot of people buy Lexus because it's the more reliable alternative to MB, BMW, Audi. Infiniti is reliable so is Acura but those haven't gotten up to the level of MB, BMW, Audi. Lexus has just broken the 100k barrier. The image of buying a 600hL is, "I can afford a 100k car and destroy the environment with it's emissions but I chose to buy a Lexus and be earth conscious while riding in luxury."

You're also buying the torque. The car is marketed as having a V12 engine at V8 fuel consumption. Don't forget the electric motors have full torque at 0 rpm, instead of holding the engine until 5-6k for it's max torque.

mmarshall

I'm all for car talk, of course, but we could probably carry this V6-V8 question on forever and still not get a consensus or settle the arguement once and for all. It seems like there are two main lines of thought here, and two main views. One group feels that, for reasons of image, marketing, or power requirements, a real luxury or sports-sedan should have a V8 and RWD or AWD. The other group feels that if the V6 is powerful and refined enough, a V8 and RWD are not necessary (though torque steer could be a concern with FWD).

In the end, I don't think either group is going to be persuaded by the other to change its mind........it's just going to remain an unresolved issue where both sides will continue to disagree.

And the market itself seems to support......and not support.......both views.
Neither the RWD V8 Infiniti Q45 nor the V6 AWD Acura RL have sold well...though there is some evidence the RL is getting more popular. And, in the Lexus line, V6s, the earlier in-line sixes, and V8's have ALL sold well.

RON430

Sure a good thing there's all that goodness in the 600h because for a car that big the trunk is a joke. Oops, I forgot, people who can afford 100K cars don't care about trunks.

At $3 a gallon these poor mileage V8s are viable. They will always have a market but the market will shrink as the price of gas rises. At $5 a gallon you can love torque all you want and maybe you are happy after having paid 75 or a 100K for your car to pay another $100 a week to fill it up. Then again, maybe you won't. And then there will be the joy when it comes time to trade it in when the salesman tells you what your 3 or 4 year old 100K torque bunny is worth.

I doubt we will see things like the S350 here but we will certainly see bimmer, benz, and audi bring high tech diesel versions of the 7, S, and A8 in the not too distant future. And that is the only reason I have decided to wait a while for a purchase in that class. Nothing available today gets me interested in making a purchase now.

But to get back to the point of the thread I don't see this as a choice of either V8s or V6s as much as having a choice of V8s and V6s. I would not advocate getting rid of V8s, especially if the engine has already gone through emissions qualification. Obviously the GS460 doesn't sell a lot of cars but as long as it is approved, why not offer it? That is the same way that I view the LS. If you want a LS460 or 600h, be my guest. But if someone wants a LS350 and it could be reasonably made available, why not offer it? Before someone says it cheapens the brand, I don't think it does. It is just offering the consumer more choice. Offer all three and let the market decide. After all we have the GS350, 460, and 450h. If an ESh were available I would probably be a buyer today but then I guess that would confuse people who really want a Camry hybrid. And we wouldn't want that.

tex2670

$30K for 50 more HP? If so, that's not how I'm spending it--might as well get the A8 with the Lambo engine.

mmarshall

A wise decision if you don't care for anything right now. And the longer you save your money, the more you will be able to put down when you DO buy or lease.....and the less you will have to finance.

tex2670

Of course they do--how can they drive 4 of their buddies to go play golf, and not be able to fit everyone's clubs? My IS has a bigger trunk.