View Poll Results: Which one?
NEW Acura TL
41
74.55%
2005 Mercedes Benz E 320
14
25.45%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll
which car to get : TL or E320
#62
Lexus Champion
How ever I prefer New TL type-S, I'm a big fan of this car... offers ton of tech, power and style... If you can buy a really nice E320 with AMG package, navigation, certified (with extra warranty), etc, @ 35K then it might be a harder choice, but I doubt you will find a car like that, I don't ever recall seeing a E320 w/ AMG package, only the E350 which really makes the car look great...
#63
#65
Lexus Fanatic
#67
Driver
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: pimpin' in my Lexie
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Now that's sad. Yeah, I remember the car becoming problematic after driving it for 4 years. Dad spent so much money on maintaining the car. The air conditioning broke once in every 3 months. I hope my Lexus won't do that to me!
#68
Can you verify that blanket statement? Not saying I don't believe you, but the assertion of continuously declining MB quality is subject to such frequent repetition that its almost an article of faith here. Given MB's recent refocus on their quality issues (especially since the mid-model cycle makeover) would a w211 E-Class I bought today really be (statistically) less reliable than a 1999 E-Class?
1999 was approaching the end of the w210 model-cycle when many bugs had been worked out. Likewise new E-Classes today are at the end of the current model-cycle and (anecdotally at least) appear a lot more solid than the early w211 around 2003-2004's or the previous w210. Is there any up to date data comparing 2008 models with 1999?
Chris
1999 was approaching the end of the w210 model-cycle when many bugs had been worked out. Likewise new E-Classes today are at the end of the current model-cycle and (anecdotally at least) appear a lot more solid than the early w211 around 2003-2004's or the previous w210. Is there any up to date data comparing 2008 models with 1999?
Chris
#69
Lexus Test Driver
Can you verify that blanket statement? Not saying I don't believe you, but the assertion of continuously declining MB quality is subject to such frequent repetition that its almost an article of faith here. Given MB's recent refocus on their quality issues (especially since the mid-model cycle makeover) would a w211 E-Class I bought today really be (statistically) less reliable than a 1999 E-Class?
1999 was approaching the end of the w210 model-cycle when many bugs had been worked out. Likewise new E-Classes today are at the end of the current model-cycle and (anecdotally at least) appear a lot more solid than the early w211 around 2003-2004's or the previous w210. Is there any up to date data comparing 2008 models with 1999?
Chris
1999 was approaching the end of the w210 model-cycle when many bugs had been worked out. Likewise new E-Classes today are at the end of the current model-cycle and (anecdotally at least) appear a lot more solid than the early w211 around 2003-2004's or the previous w210. Is there any up to date data comparing 2008 models with 1999?
Chris
It also depends on if mmarshall meant '99 compared to '08 now, or to the '99 when it was new then.
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Mercedes products, in general, showed a gradual decline in reliability through the mid-late 1990's, which intensified after 2000. There are some signs, though, that it may have hit bottom and is starting a slow rise.
#71
Lexus Fanatic
Mercedes products, in general, showed a gradual decline in reliability through the mid-late 1990's, which intensified after 2000. There are some signs, though, that it may have hit bottom and is starting a slow rise.
#72
Lexus Fanatic
Well, I myself don't write or publish the results. That is done by Consumer Reports, J.D. Power, and other organizations that get their data and survey results from...............what else?.......actual owners.
#73
Lexus Test Driver
I've had an '02 ML for quite some time now and it's been one of the best vehicles I have ever owned.
#74
I meant the general reliability of a '99, as it aged, compared to the probable reliability of an '08 as it ages. Sorry if that was unclear.
Mercedes products, in general, showed a gradual decline in reliability through the mid-late 1990's, which intensified after 2000. There are some signs, though, that it may have hit bottom and is starting a slow rise.
Mercedes products, in general, showed a gradual decline in reliability through the mid-late 1990's, which intensified after 2000. There are some signs, though, that it may have hit bottom and is starting a slow rise.
--
Got it... I do not believe anyone can make that call about a current 08 Model however... And next year with the new E-Class, MB will have radically changed/updated models for the core S,C, and E sedans at least... These are in effect totally new cars. It is tempting to let the past be a guide to the present... but all signs (both corporate statements and recent owner feedback) indicates that MB is really serious about addressing this issue... Based on statements from Zetsche downwards, I think they fully realize what damage the recent bad quality PR has done to the brand and are addressing it...
All I am arguing is that blanket statements like "Vehicle X is more unreliable than it was in 1999" are subjective. Unfortunately the (multi-year) scoring processes of survey organizations often does not properly account for the impact of incremental and mid-cycle or major model changes. Consumer feedback based on (by default older) sampling of vehicles of varying ages and mileage may not necessarily be reflective of the actual quality of a vehicle you would buy today.
BTW: I am not arguing for MB here alone. Frankly much of the reporting and assessment criteria I see in Consumer Reports and others is lazy - especially on the less popular/newsworthy models. It is not unusual to see the same review applied to what are new vehicles. The product life-cycle and quality equation is always more complex.
Chris
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
You should only listen to "actual" owners not flawed surveys. The 210 (1996-2002) models have two main issues which are the harmonic balancer and the spring perch. Best years to buy used are 00-02 when they switched from I-6 to the v-6. The 211 years to avoid are 03 and 04. The 211 started to improve in 05 and up.
I still feel its a hit or miss with quality. I still love Benzes though.
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