Lutz Says the Volt Isn’t a Hybrid
01-17-08, 07:20 PM
#1
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Lutz Says the Volt Isn’t a Hybrid
Lutz Says the Volt Isn’t a Hybrid
GM Product Development Czar Bob Lutz is sick of seeing his pet Chevrolet Volt concept car referred to as a plug-in hybrid. “It’s not a hybrid,” Mr. Lutz said during a roundtable with reporters at the Detroit auto show Tuesday.
Mr. Lutz, responding to a question about his reaction to Toyota’s announcement that it will lease plug-in hybrid cars to customers, said that a lot of people are confusing that technology with the Volt. In fact, Mr. Lutz argues that the Volt is simply an “extended-range electric vehicle” that doesn’t necessarily need a gasoline engine for propulsion. GM promises to deliver a car that can drive up to 40 miles on a charge.
Still, the car will carry a small engine that would kick in to charge the battery when the battery is drained. By definition, most would argue the combination of two sources of power to move a vehicle from point A to point B is a hybrid. – John D. Stoll
Mr. Lutz, responding to a question about his reaction to Toyota’s announcement that it will lease plug-in hybrid cars to customers, said that a lot of people are confusing that technology with the Volt. In fact, Mr. Lutz argues that the Volt is simply an “extended-range electric vehicle” that doesn’t necessarily need a gasoline engine for propulsion. GM promises to deliver a car that can drive up to 40 miles on a charge.
Still, the car will carry a small engine that would kick in to charge the battery when the battery is drained. By definition, most would argue the combination of two sources of power to move a vehicle from point A to point B is a hybrid. – John D. Stoll
01-17-08, 11:16 PM
#4
One way or round trip? I think most people drive more than 40 miles round trip to work. When I lived further away from work I was about 45 miles round trip. I think you need to take the round trip into consideration because most people wont be able to charge their cars up at work so the only place to charge is at home.
01-18-08, 04:38 AM
#5
Lutz just digs an hole for himself every day with Volt.
Thats just shows why Toyota is #1 and GM is not.
Lutz is all about promising things that he doesnt know if he can deliver. He does not care what happens in 2-3 years - he will change his rethoric then. I mean, who the heck would advertise Volt in full blow ads in 2007 - when they dont even know when will they ship it, what the specs or looks are.
Here is good article from Toyota Open Blog:
http://blog.lexus.com/2008/01/irvs-sheet-on-b.html#more
Basically responds cautiusly to comments on when and what will Toyota have plugin hybrids - not because they can not smart mouth like Lutz does, but because they do not want to promise something that they can not deliver.
Thats just shows why Toyota is #1 and GM is not.
Lutz is all about promising things that he doesnt know if he can deliver. He does not care what happens in 2-3 years - he will change his rethoric then. I mean, who the heck would advertise Volt in full blow ads in 2007 - when they dont even know when will they ship it, what the specs or looks are.
Here is good article from Toyota Open Blog:
http://blog.lexus.com/2008/01/irvs-sheet-on-b.html#more
Basically responds cautiusly to comments on when and what will Toyota have plugin hybrids - not because they can not smart mouth like Lutz does, but because they do not want to promise something that they can not deliver.
01-18-08, 06:40 AM
#6
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IMO, if the on-board gasoline engine is used exclusively to charge the batteries, and, is in no way connected to the drive line, then I side with Lutz, It's not a hybrid. But, it is a gray area and I can see where the argument lies.
Last edited by IS350jet; 01-18-08 at 08:17 AM.
01-18-08, 10:09 AM
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01-18-08, 10:15 AM
#8
The Volt is an electric car, not a hybrid. It's a plugin electric car with an IC engine that supplements its range. It's not a hybrid in the sense that the power from the IC engine never goes to the wheels directly.
Propulsion is strictly from the electric motor. The IC engine is run at it's most efficient rpm configuration to extend the range of the electric motor once the batteries are depleted.
So yes, it does have an IC engine and an electric motor.....but unlike hybrid powertrains where the power can come from either or both the IC engine and the electric motor, the Volt only uses the electric motor to move the car.
Propulsion is strictly from the electric motor. The IC engine is run at it's most efficient rpm configuration to extend the range of the electric motor once the batteries are depleted.
So yes, it does have an IC engine and an electric motor.....but unlike hybrid powertrains where the power can come from either or both the IC engine and the electric motor, the Volt only uses the electric motor to move the car.
01-18-08, 10:21 AM
#9
One way or round trip? I think most people drive more than 40 miles round trip to work. When I lived further away from work I was about 45 miles round trip. I think you need to take the round trip into consideration because most people wont be able to charge their cars up at work so the only place to charge is at home.
So many people using the Volt may never even use gasoline at all for their 5 day work commute purposes! If you go over 40 miles, the IC engine will kick in and since it's a small engine running at it's most efficient rpm (like a generator engine), it's designed to minimize gas consumption and you'll get very good fuel economy even with the engine running.
01-18-08, 12:26 PM
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Then, as soon as 2010, GM will offer a plug-in version of the Vue Green Line two-mode hybrid. This vehicle will be very similar to the two-mode model to be offered this year, with the substitution of its nickel metal hydride batteries with lithium-ion batteries and the addition of a cord to plug the Vue into electric outlets.
This plug-in vehicle promises the ability to drive as far as 10 miles at around-town speeds on electric-only power. Plugging in the Vue could let it burn half as much fuel as any SUV on the road today, Wagoner said.
Key to selling plug-in hybrids is the development of safe and durable lithium-ion batteries, which are not currently available. GM plans to start testing these batteries in vehicles by June, in preparation for manufacturing, according to Denise Gray, director of energy storage systems for GM. While the batteries still aren’t ready for prime time, the development engineers are getting promising results from testing.
This plug-in vehicle promises the ability to drive as far as 10 miles at around-town speeds on electric-only power. Plugging in the Vue could let it burn half as much fuel as any SUV on the road today, Wagoner said.
Key to selling plug-in hybrids is the development of safe and durable lithium-ion batteries, which are not currently available. GM plans to start testing these batteries in vehicles by June, in preparation for manufacturing, according to Denise Gray, director of energy storage systems for GM. While the batteries still aren’t ready for prime time, the development engineers are getting promising results from testing.
01-18-08, 02:03 PM
#12
Its dual powertrain, no matter what actually powers the wheels at the end.
It is called series hybrid, in difference to paralel hybrids that Toyota is using.
Also, let me point out that "40 miles" commute is perfect condition MPG, which will be much less in real life. Just like with any other car.
In fact, the way they do it is really inefficient, I will bet anything that by the time Volt design is finalized, it will end up being same as Prius.
01-18-08, 03:17 PM
#13
If they can get the cruising range to 100 miles or more that would be good. Should cover most peoples commute to and from work on a single charge, plus be able to do a few errands during lunch break or after work.
But, you have a point with the gas engine generator. That should charge and extend the driving range. So we are almost at the point of full plug in electric cars, but not quite yet.
Last edited by CK6Speed; 01-18-08 at 03:20 PM.
01-18-08, 04:22 PM
#14
Your average GS450h already has stronger motors than something like Volt.
btw - did you guys know that Lutz ordered them to rethink the system after he found out that 0-60 will take around minute to achieve? Such are the problems of series hybrids.
01-18-08, 05:45 PM
#15
There are different types of hybrid vehicles.
He's just saying it so that it makes it sound like GM isn't copying anyone and is coming out with an all-new idea.
Toyota hybrids are series-parallel hybrids.
The Volt is a series hybrid. The engine charges the battery which powers the elec. motors which power the wheels, hence series.
Anyone who believes that it's an EV is falling for GM's marketing. You want an EV? you're 10 years too late.
A PHEV is a PHEV whether it has a 10 mile range or a 40 mile range. It's a PHEV until the gasoline (or diesel or hydrogen ICE or fuel cell stack) is removed.
He's just saying it so that it makes it sound like GM isn't copying anyone and is coming out with an all-new idea.
Toyota hybrids are series-parallel hybrids.
The Volt is a series hybrid. The engine charges the battery which powers the elec. motors which power the wheels, hence series.
Anyone who believes that it's an EV is falling for GM's marketing. You want an EV? you're 10 years too late.
A PHEV is a PHEV whether it has a 10 mile range or a 40 mile range. It's a PHEV until the gasoline (or diesel or hydrogen ICE or fuel cell stack) is removed.