RWD Toyota coupe to be made by Subaru (Toyota confirms pg. 6)
#106
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For most enthusiasts though, this is exactly what's needed. A small, relatively lightweight RWD coupe that will be priced competitively, and one that should be easy to tune and modify.
#107
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For image reasons and for more serious performance junkies, a bigger and more powerful RWD coupe would be preferred.
For most enthusiasts though, this is exactly what's needed. A small, relatively lightweight RWD coupe that will be priced competitively, and one that should be easy to tune and modify.
For most enthusiasts though, this is exactly what's needed. A small, relatively lightweight RWD coupe that will be priced competitively, and one that should be easy to tune and modify.
#108
#110
So is there confirmation from Toyota that the new hybrid supra replacement if they actually make one is going to use the same capacitors just like the Supra HV-R and not batteries like on all their other hybrids and that it will be suitable and affordable for a production car costing under 50K? Do you know exactly how much it costs to build that Supra HV-R and how long it actually lasts(most race motors only last for about 1 race before needing to be replaced or completely rebuilt)? I bet it costs Toyota several hundred thousand if not over a million for each Supra HV-R which means that technology is very new for a racing car and extremely expensive and unsuitable for a affordable production car. Why would Toyota not just use capacitors in the hybrid performance GS if they have that technology and it is superior to batteries like what they are currently using. Maybe because it is too expensive and not really suitable for a production car.
I never said that some racing technology does not eventually filter down to production cars but it usually takes a while for it to filter down and it is usaully very different from what they actually used in the racecar version. Technology in race cars does not need to be day to day reliable nor does it have to be affordable and can be very expensive and rare which it is. Most race car bodies are made of carbon fiber, racecars have expensive magnesium/titanium peices, gold plated heat protection, etc. While these materials filter down to many really rare exotic production cars they are usaully cars costing several hundred thousand dollars, there are some lesser priced cars that use small amounts of these expensive exotic materials but not many. Most race car engines produce well over 500hp from small extremely high reving engines and weigh less then half of what an economy car weighs. These engines last maybe one race and that is it and are completely unsuitable for a production car engine. Some of the technology that allows those cars to get that hp and performance may filter down to production cars but it will be nothing like what the actual racing car used and just a toned down affordable/reliable version of it. The Supra HV-R may have performed well at the race but the technology to get it to perform well like extremely expensive high tech capacitors and investment was most likely so expensive that it would be completely unsuitable for a production car, maybe a little bit of that technology could filter down to an affordable production car but not the same that caused the HS-R to be sucessful and the HS-R did not need to be affordable nor everyday driveable and only had to last one race which is how long most race motors last.
Unless Toyota has made some giant breakthrough that I am unaware of with hybrids then if it is like what they currently use in their production cars then it will be unsuitable for a high performance sports car. I highly doubt they will make a affordable/reliable hybrid sports car using the same expensive capacitor technology they used in the Supra HV-R for the production Supra replacement and they will most likely stick with what they have been using which is batteries or similiar technology with what they are using like the hybrid GS/LS. Just because a concept of the Supra replacement has a capacitor motor does not mean the production version is going to get it but there is a possibility they may do it. I will believe when I see it.
I never said that some racing technology does not eventually filter down to production cars but it usually takes a while for it to filter down and it is usaully very different from what they actually used in the racecar version. Technology in race cars does not need to be day to day reliable nor does it have to be affordable and can be very expensive and rare which it is. Most race car bodies are made of carbon fiber, racecars have expensive magnesium/titanium peices, gold plated heat protection, etc. While these materials filter down to many really rare exotic production cars they are usaully cars costing several hundred thousand dollars, there are some lesser priced cars that use small amounts of these expensive exotic materials but not many. Most race car engines produce well over 500hp from small extremely high reving engines and weigh less then half of what an economy car weighs. These engines last maybe one race and that is it and are completely unsuitable for a production car engine. Some of the technology that allows those cars to get that hp and performance may filter down to production cars but it will be nothing like what the actual racing car used and just a toned down affordable/reliable version of it. The Supra HV-R may have performed well at the race but the technology to get it to perform well like extremely expensive high tech capacitors and investment was most likely so expensive that it would be completely unsuitable for a production car, maybe a little bit of that technology could filter down to an affordable production car but not the same that caused the HS-R to be sucessful and the HS-R did not need to be affordable nor everyday driveable and only had to last one race which is how long most race motors last.
Unless Toyota has made some giant breakthrough that I am unaware of with hybrids then if it is like what they currently use in their production cars then it will be unsuitable for a high performance sports car. I highly doubt they will make a affordable/reliable hybrid sports car using the same expensive capacitor technology they used in the Supra HV-R for the production Supra replacement and they will most likely stick with what they have been using which is batteries or similiar technology with what they are using like the hybrid GS/LS. Just because a concept of the Supra replacement has a capacitor motor does not mean the production version is going to get it but there is a possibility they may do it. I will believe when I see it.
Now:
-When racing technology trickles down, it trickles down. It is not significantly different. Toyota raced the hybrid tech because they wanted a leap forward in Hybrid tech. Why else race it? marketing purposes? Not when the only performance hybrids are Lexii. The only activity that develops technology faster than racing is war..... think on that for a while. They realise the need for lighter vehicles and a lighter more efficient hybrid system to make cars like these work and to make hybrid cars more viable.
-What makes you think that an adequate Supra replacement wouldn't cost at least $35K anyway? (i.e. rwd, manual tranny, rock solid engine and drive train-that is highly modifiable, sub 3400lb weight, well over 300hp).
- Speaking of which, 300hp rwd coupe? $30K? Sounds an awful lot like an IS coupe to me. Now you just have to ask them to build it with a manual transmission...wait, many folks don't buy those these days do they?
-A GT racing car does NOT cost a million dollars maybe around $250-$400K. I doubt the HV-R costs more than 3/4 Million, and likely costs significantly less, since it's essentially a JGTC/Super GT Supra with a super-capacitor hybrid system.
#111
Super Moderator
Subaru worried about Toyota joint-venture
Posted on Monday 21 April 2008
source
Subaru worried about Toyota joint-venture
For many the appeal of Subaru has been its niche status and AWD image but with its latest project – a jointly developed RWD sports car with Toyota – the carmaker is now faced with losing part of that appeal. The new joint-venture, which was announced earlier this month, will see Subaru and Toyota sell rebadged versions of a jointly developed sports car with Subaru responsible for the engineering work and Toyota the styling.
Careful marketing will be the key to success when the car debuts in late 2011, explained Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru’s parent) chief Mat Nagato during a recent interview with Automotive News. “A potential question could be cannibalization,” Nagato said. ” We may lose our longstanding territory, or we may lose the great niche brand image. The potential risk is there. We have to be very smart on marketing strategy.”
Subaru sells just 7% of Toyota’s total volume and management is wary of the competition it will face from Toyota once both cars are on the market. Nagato said it is unlikely the companies will divide global markets into Subaru-only and Toyota-only domains, so going head-to-head with industry giant will be an uphill battle all the way. Subaru has one advantage in that the new car will be powered by one if its trademark boxer engines.
Engineers are in the early stages of planning the new sports car with the only details confirmed so far is that it will use a front-mounted Subaru boxer engine and a RWD layout. Volume, pricing, design and engine size are still being decided, Nagato revealed.
For many the appeal of Subaru has been its niche status and AWD image but with its latest project – a jointly developed RWD sports car with Toyota – the carmaker is now faced with losing part of that appeal. The new joint-venture, which was announced earlier this month, will see Subaru and Toyota sell rebadged versions of a jointly developed sports car with Subaru responsible for the engineering work and Toyota the styling.
Careful marketing will be the key to success when the car debuts in late 2011, explained Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru’s parent) chief Mat Nagato during a recent interview with Automotive News. “A potential question could be cannibalization,” Nagato said. ” We may lose our longstanding territory, or we may lose the great niche brand image. The potential risk is there. We have to be very smart on marketing strategy.”
Subaru sells just 7% of Toyota’s total volume and management is wary of the competition it will face from Toyota once both cars are on the market. Nagato said it is unlikely the companies will divide global markets into Subaru-only and Toyota-only domains, so going head-to-head with industry giant will be an uphill battle all the way. Subaru has one advantage in that the new car will be powered by one if its trademark boxer engines.
Engineers are in the early stages of planning the new sports car with the only details confirmed so far is that it will use a front-mounted Subaru boxer engine and a RWD layout. Volume, pricing, design and engine size are still being decided, Nagato revealed.
#112
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
I think a smarter idea would have been to keep AWD in Subaru's lineup.
Create a car based upon the Imprezza chassis and cut two doors away.
You now have AWD choices of the Imprezza lineup in coupe form, since they haven't had a coupe since the days of the SVX and Legacy/Imprezza two doors of the early-mid 90s.
For Toyota they get a RWD coupe and maybe an even higher trim STI based coupe (this will probably compete with the STI but at least they are different styled).
This way Subaru won't be selling a RWD car in it's lineup at all and they gain a coupe. They'll still be competing for a STI/GT4 coupe but styling might help separate the two. I think it'll be a bad thing for Subaru to start selling non-AWD vehicles, it's part of their marketing in North America.
Create a car based upon the Imprezza chassis and cut two doors away.
You now have AWD choices of the Imprezza lineup in coupe form, since they haven't had a coupe since the days of the SVX and Legacy/Imprezza two doors of the early-mid 90s.
For Toyota they get a RWD coupe and maybe an even higher trim STI based coupe (this will probably compete with the STI but at least they are different styled).
This way Subaru won't be selling a RWD car in it's lineup at all and they gain a coupe. They'll still be competing for a STI/GT4 coupe but styling might help separate the two. I think it'll be a bad thing for Subaru to start selling non-AWD vehicles, it's part of their marketing in North America.
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