BMW is the only car dealership I have been to that breeds excitement across the model lineup. They are sporty, indulgent, well equipped rides. They also make owners feel young at heart. I think this is why they will continue to do well. No other car looks like them or drives like them.

I think they have their own niche. They are not for everybody, but they never wanted to be. People who go into the showroom are not thinking about JD Powers, reliability, or Lexota comparisions. They know what they want, and where to get it.

 

Well that is your opinion. The fact is they have the lowest age of luxury car buyers, I understand your first paragraph.

I disagree with your 2nd one. BMWs now ARE for everybody as they have chased sales and expanded their lineup everywhere. Read any EVO or CAR or talk to any old BMW head, they brand has changed. THis is a company planning to sell 100,000 M3s this go round. They have added mass and SMG (fancy automatic) to get more sales, where in the PAST if you could not drive a manual, BMW was NOT for you. We both know BMW is at a point in their life where they can make cars look controversial inside and out and people will continue to buy them.

Don't forget, BMW has the best lease rates and highest incentives of any luxury brand. So you can get a GREAT DEAL on a BMW.

 

The 335i, IMO, is so good that, at 40-50K vs. 70-80K + for an M3, the new M will have its work cut out for it convincing buyers that it is a better deal than the 335, especially with the traditional dealer markups. In addition, the 335 is more civilized as a daily driver. For 45K or so, It's hard to imagine a better all-around, driver-centered sports sedan.

 

lack of low-RPM torque in the IS350?

have you stomped on the gas 0-60 mpg in the IS350???? that's its bread and butter.....0-60 in 4.9 secs in a much much more reliable package than the beamer.


nice review by the way!!

 

The BMW situation is similar to Harley-Davidson motorcycles; much of their market is for those that don't really know that much about cars/bikes, but they know that BMW/H-D represent the best, whether they actually do or not is immaterial. There are still many enthusiasts for both brands, but also many customers who have 'dumbed down' some of the true enthusiast feel and pride of ownership. Unfortunately that is how many businesses have to run these days to continue churning out better and better product at reasonable cost. It is a double edged sword.

 

Thanks.

Stomped on the gas? Yes and no. Both the IS350 and the 335i I reviewed were new cars without enough miles on them for a max-RPM acceleration test....you don't want to go over 4000-4500 RPM for the first 1000 miles. But, under the similiar conditions I gave them, the IS350 felt a little more torque-shy at lower RPMs.....the BMW's twin turbos, with the inherent turbo lag, were set up so well that they overlapped each other to almost eliminate what turbo lag there was. And if you look at the published torque figure from the manufacturer, the BMW does in fact have more torque.

So, in a nutshell, in normal driving, the BMW FELT faster even if, under straight-max conditions, the Lexus actually is faster.

You are correct that the BMW will probably be less reliable than the Lexus, espcially in electronics...and fortunately BMW keeps the I-Drive out of the non-NAV 3-series models.

 

Excellent Review mmarshall the 335i has become my favorite car in it's class.

 

Thanks.

When you see what a new M3 will cost, the 335i will probably be even more your favorite.

 

I must say the M3 is A LOT more than a $13K ///M badge.

there is the M-diff (LSD) which is up to 100% locking differential if you wanted a LSD on your 335i would cost you a good bit.

M3 has different wheels, tire, brakes, suspension, has availible active dampers, has active HIDs, has different interior trim as well as much different exterior and in the coupe has a carbon fibre roof.

Not to mention has a high-reving 414hp engine (which is 114hp more than the 335i).

I mean for many it's not important but if you want a higher performance 3-series you can mod a 335i and try to get to the level of a M3 but it will never be a M3 meaning the looks as well as the resale.

I am not trying to say one way or other but consider to go from the base Porsche 911 325hp to the 911S 355hp costs $10K (that's 20hp difference with different equipment as well) the price difference of the 335i to the M3 (IMO) makes the M3 well worth it.

A comp equiped M3 sedan (to the one you tested) would be about $60K your tested car was $47K which is a $13K difference. I know some people have spent more than $50K for a $335i so money is getting close to a $60K M3.

You saw my post where a nicely equiped M3 sedan with nav and premium stereo (as well as other options) was just a hair over $60K. To some that's money well spent.

Just for the engine some would pay a good deal extra but the M package is a lot more than just the engine.

I do realize many people don't care or care little about the performance aspect. I see you have driven a new Corvette well the M3 coupe has been tested in R&T magazine and has just about the same acceleration as the new Corvette even tho it weighs ~400 lbs more.

I will say money matters the 335i wins but if performance matters than the M3 is the clear winner and to some people will be considering a M3 as an alternative to a 911 ($73K+ and up all day long) so I realize it's semantics what you want to compare a car to.

When do you draw the line where a 335i is worth $6500K more than a 328i but why can't a M3 be worth $14K more when it's got 40% more power, V8 plus features you can't buy on a 335i for any price (M-diff, CF roof etc.)

 

You raise some valid points about the M3, but make sure you compare apples and oranges. I think your prices are for last-gen models. New M3's,when they get to the U.S. will start at an absurd 69-70K and run 82K for Cabriolets. I admit I have not reviewed the new M3 yet, but the 335i is so good a sports sedan, at 40-50K, that it is hard to imagine the new M3 being a better buy for almost 30K more.
And you can bet the rent money the M3 will be much rougher on everyday bumpy roads.....it really is more a car for the track than a civilized daily driver. That's where the 335i shines.....its chassis/suspension, particularly with the Sport Package, is a superb combination of ride/handling. The M3, granted, is all-out handling.....but IMO is useful only on a track or glass-smooth roads.

If you still feel that the price of a NEW M3, or its suitablity as a daily driver, justifies its purchase over a new 335, then, fine....I'll respect your view. That's what CAR CHAT is for.....to discuss these things.

 

the prices for the new current gen M3 is already out they start at $53,800 no lie. In fact I think they directly priced it near or same as the ISF. Maybe a bit more depending on what you need.

But in fact it's physically impossible to price a M3 over $70K with every option. (at least that's till the vert comes out be we are not talking about the 3-series vert as the 335i vert costs $50K to start the M3 vert probably will be over $60K to start.)


The 08 M3s do not start at $69K or $70K they start at $53,800 for the sedan.

And you can get Electronic Damping Control so you're ride is not as bad as if you had one setting for every occasion.

With Electronic Damping Control(EDC), you can set damper settings to one of three levels - Comfort, Normal or Sport.

I will say, nothing against the 335i but as good/great as it is it's no M3 and people are spending $60K+ for a ISF the M3 is clearly in the same ballpark.

 

OK.....you might be one step ahead of me on M3 prices. The figures I saw were 69-82K.....but that was not official. If it's 58K to start...that's a little better, though of course still not cheap.

Even with money issues aside, I'm still not sure the M3 is a better daily driver than the 335. I guess that is a matter of individual opinion and taste.

 

a 335i with leather and sports suspension costs (no other options cost $42,825)

a M3 with same leather (no other options) cost $54,750

the M3 configurator does not list a delivery charge for the M cars (this is probably an error) nor does it list the GG tax which is supposed to be $1300 but add in the GG tax and the delivery charge and the M3 is just $14K more than the 335i

I realize 'just $14K' is still a good deal of money but for the extra power as well as more content (IMO) if you can afford it is probably well worth it.

Just wanted to point out the difference is $14K not $30K. I did add sports suspension to the 335i price but it's still not the same level of sports suspension nor brakes wheels or tires of the level of the M3.

My M3 Sedan
4.0-liter, V-8 engine

Base MSRP $53,800
Silverstone Metallic $475
Black Novillo Leather $950
Titanium Shadow Trim $0
Technology Package $3,250
Enhanced Premium Sound $1,900
Destination & Handling: $0
Total MSRP as Built $60,375

 

To add, the IS's backseat does not fold down if it matters and the trunk is smaller. The Navigation/playlists for audio cannot be changed while driving in the IS. If you want a manual, it is not available in the IS350 as well, only hte IS250.

 

Nice review mmarshall.

I haven't been around this forum very actively recently but this thread caught my eye when I was browsing through this evening.

I agree with the majority of your review based on my impressions of my 335i that I've had for the last 4 months or so (20 months left on the lease).

A few things that come to mind, commenting on your comments:
-Did you play with sport mode and the paddle shifters (assuming it had them)? The transmission on the 335i is neat as the torque converter stays fully locked up almost the entire time, and it rev matches on down shifts... closest feel to a manual transmission short of the Audi DSG system, IMO.
-The keyless ignition thing is a $500 option on all 3-series cars and even the 5-series though I think for some magical reason it's $1000 instead on the 5!
-I was really expecting you to be harsher on the ride quality of the 335i w/ sport package (mine is equipped extremely close to your tester, including sport/prem without nav). I find it to be borderline too stiff for my tastes on rough roads. Pot holes will really get your attention in this car.. almost feels like something might have been damaged in some cases. But I guess that may be the price paid for the insane handling and chassis dynamics. I have done some flat out incredible things with this car on winding back roads.
-The stereo is actually very good in terms of imaging and acoustics when tuned properly using the EQ. I was unimpressed with it as well when I first heard it, but after tuning it sounded far better - aside from weaker (but cleaner) bass, it is superior to the Nakamichi system I had in my 99 GS400, IMO.
-If I owned this car I'd see if I could get rid of the run flats. Too stiff of a ride and too expensive to be replacing every 20k miles. But the lease terms require that I replace runflats with runflats...
-Did you notice the dynamic lights? Those are nicer than I thought they'd be on dark winding roads at higher speeds.
-Did you notice the 'rest' button? Push it when parked and the car brings in heat from the engine to keep the cabin fully warmed up for up to 45 minutes or so of being parked in the winter.
-Yes this car takes longer than any car I've ever owned for the temp needle to even begin to budge. I'll be 8 miles down the road from my house before the needle is even close to where it tends to stabilize.
-A couple other complaints I have are the strange to reach window switches (too far forward and sloped down, ergonomically awkward), and the fact that the car doesn't beep when locked, and only flashes the lights the first time you lock it, so OCD people like me can't receive any form of confirmation that the car is locked without unlocking and locking again...

Anyhow... thanks again for the review.