bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I'm sure you're right, but overall, which interior would you say is better, a Malibu or a Camry?

mmarshall

Comare it to the latest-generation Camry, and I'd say Malibu, hands-down. The Malibu's transmission shifter is also as slick as an Obama campaign speech.

To really appreciate the Camry's interior-quality decline, the easiest way to gauge it is to drop by a Toyota shop, find a used 1992-1996 model in nice shape (I thought the 92-96 model was the best Camry ever built), and then compare it to today's model.

I8ABMR

It sounds like alot of people think toyota has slipped bec of just 2 bad cars and the americans have taken over the realm of quality bec of only 2 good cars. Its going to take alot more for the two sides to switch. American cars still suck

tex2670

Well--everyone is willing to give kudos to Chevy and Caddy for building the Malibu and CTS which, from what I have read, now "competes" with the best cars out there. This equals success for American car makers? Produce a car that is competitive? How about producing a car that's best in class? Sure, it's a good sign, but let's not go crazy here. If BMW, Lexus, Audi, MB, etc. built a car that was merely competitive with others in the class, there would hardly be any praise.

This is only the first step. There needs to be much more of a showing.

ES350Bob

It is beyond thinking Toyota/Lexus has slipped to knowing they have slipped in quality ratings and on more than 2 models and over several years worth of models.

The whole industry could use a quality reality check.

mmarshall

You're living in the past. Toyota/Lexus has slipped in interior and sheet metal quality on a number of vehicles, not just two, and American-designed cars, while still trailing Asian-designed ones in some areas (primarily paint quality and interior hardware) have shown notable improvent in several areas. Yes, as you note, the CTS and Malibu, to date, are probably the best examples, but there are others as well. Unfortunately, Chrysler-designed products are still lagging, but even they will shortly start to show some improvement as well...now that they are free of the yoke of M-B ownership, they are free to make the improvements for their vehicles that they see fit. For example, the next-generation Dodge Caliber and Jeep Compass...two classic pieces of crap in fit/finish, will get all-new, far better interiors. I talked to a Chrysler design engineer about this at the January DC Auto Show, and he verified it....and filled me in on some of the details.

Milla...

Hmm The Honda Mini van is no where on the list.

tex2670

But doesn't it offend you that they need a 2nd generation of a car just to get quality and fit/finish to an acceptable level? Don't you think that part of the reason the Malibu is getting such good reviews is that Chevy learned from the mistatkes that Saturn and Pontiac made? The Ford Five Hundred had to have the Taurus name resurrected to help it. And the CTS needed a 2nd generation to produce a car with good quality materials. This all does a huge amount of damage to a make and a model.

For example, many people get stuck in their head that, say, that Dodge Caliber they rented from Avis was such a piece of garbage that they'll never even consider it no matter how much it is improved.

Love or hate the design of the Accord or Camry, or whehter or not they are drivers' cars, Honda and Toyota rarely make such blunders that American car companies are given mulligans on; and if they do, they are crucified.

Threxx

This thread is titled pretty poorly considering that it's based on info from a couple ago - and even a couple years back it wasn't worth while information on new models, only guess work based on previous history.

Thus the info that this thread is based on has absolutely no relevance to any "change" that may or may not have occurred in recent years.

Get back to me in about 2 more years with consumer reports and JD Power findings.

mmarshall

Actually, it's the third-generation model. I don't think it's a question from "learning" from mistakes....GM, for the most part, has been doing second-rate cars literally for decades. The difference is that the company realizes that customers simply will not tolerate that kind of second-class design any more. The old, World-War II, anti Germany/anti-Japan generation that swore by American-designed cars at any price and would buy anything GM put in showrooms is rapidly fading from the scene.....replaced by people like us here on CAR CHAT that are far more car-saavy and knowledgeable. The new generation of GM customers demands better...and will not buy if they don't get it.

The renamning of the Five Hundered/Taurus, IMO, was complete nonsense....there was NOTHING wrong with the Five Hundred name, nor the car. It was a good car under the old name, and an equally good car under the new name.

Cars DO improve, sometimes, without the public giving them the credit they deserve. Hyundai and Kia proved that......in spades. The negative image that some uninformed people still have about these two brands lags FAR behind the reality. The problem is that too many people are living in the past without bothering to go LOOK at new cars...or read reviews. I myself was slow to believe the change at Hyundai/Kia.....until I went to see for myself.

drink300

The new rankings mean nothing to someone like me who has already become a lifetime convert to foreign cars. The embarassment and safety risk Ford put me and my family through with their poorly built late 80s and early 90s autos sealed the deal. I will never buy an American-made car as long as I live.

IMO, they had the knowledge and technology to compete with the Japanese back then and they simply chose not to because they were making a killing in their service departments. Shame on you Ford!