New Edmunds Study: Declining Consumer Interest in V8s
02-14-08, 07:40 AM
#1
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
New Edmunds Study: Declining Consumer Interest in V8s
New Edmunds Study: Declining Consumer Interest in V8s
Date posted: 02-13-2008
SANTA MONICA, California — In what may be a telling sign of the times, more vehicle shoppers — perhaps concerned with the high cost of gasoline and/or increasingly interested in environmental issues — appear to be just saying no to that most American of engines, the V8.
Installation rates for V8s — the favored power plant for the horsepower wars that have dominated the U.S. market for more than a decade — are dropping. And data from a new Edmunds.com study extrapolating the purchase intentions of consumers actively shopping for a new vehicle show those potential customers are markedly less interested in V8 power.
Overall shopper demand for V8s has dropped from 19 percent two years ago to just 15 percent today.
And the public's taste for eight cylinders in SUVs has dropped even more markedly: from 24 percent in January, 2006 to 18 percent at the end of 2007. Meanwhile, demand for V8 power in large cars also slid from 36 percent to 29 percent in the same time frame — and the same numbers apply for two-seaters.
Even Chrysler's dominating Hemi V8 is not immune: The average installation rate for all models that offer the Hemi — there are about a dozen — dropped to 38 percent at the end of 2007; in the Hemi's heyday, installation rates for almost all models easily exceeded 40 percent. And at one point, more than 60 percent of Charger buyers, for instance, opted for the Hemi.
One market segment in which V8 consideration is holding strong: full-size pickups. Demand has increased from 55 percent at the beginning of 2006 to a current 59 percent. Edmunds data wonks say this could be because the number of "casual" pickup customers is dropping, leaving a larger ratio of pickup buyers who use their trucks for genuine work duty.
The case against V8s is building from many angles: General Motors recently made headlines when it shelved a mature development program for a next-generation premium V8. California persists in its legal wrangling to define a de facto fuel-economy standard by strictly regulating carbon dioxide emissions, which are linked to global warming; in that environment, V8s will be a big liability. But perhaps most directly for consumers, fuel prices just keep rising.
What this means to you: "That thing got a Hemi?" just doesn't have the playfully insolent ring it once enjoyed — and the ring V8s make for automakers' cash registers is sure to be a casualty, too. — Bill Visnic, Senior Editor, AutoObserver.com
Date posted: 02-13-2008
SANTA MONICA, California — In what may be a telling sign of the times, more vehicle shoppers — perhaps concerned with the high cost of gasoline and/or increasingly interested in environmental issues — appear to be just saying no to that most American of engines, the V8.
Installation rates for V8s — the favored power plant for the horsepower wars that have dominated the U.S. market for more than a decade — are dropping. And data from a new Edmunds.com study extrapolating the purchase intentions of consumers actively shopping for a new vehicle show those potential customers are markedly less interested in V8 power.
Overall shopper demand for V8s has dropped from 19 percent two years ago to just 15 percent today.
And the public's taste for eight cylinders in SUVs has dropped even more markedly: from 24 percent in January, 2006 to 18 percent at the end of 2007. Meanwhile, demand for V8 power in large cars also slid from 36 percent to 29 percent in the same time frame — and the same numbers apply for two-seaters.
Even Chrysler's dominating Hemi V8 is not immune: The average installation rate for all models that offer the Hemi — there are about a dozen — dropped to 38 percent at the end of 2007; in the Hemi's heyday, installation rates for almost all models easily exceeded 40 percent. And at one point, more than 60 percent of Charger buyers, for instance, opted for the Hemi.
One market segment in which V8 consideration is holding strong: full-size pickups. Demand has increased from 55 percent at the beginning of 2006 to a current 59 percent. Edmunds data wonks say this could be because the number of "casual" pickup customers is dropping, leaving a larger ratio of pickup buyers who use their trucks for genuine work duty.
The case against V8s is building from many angles: General Motors recently made headlines when it shelved a mature development program for a next-generation premium V8. California persists in its legal wrangling to define a de facto fuel-economy standard by strictly regulating carbon dioxide emissions, which are linked to global warming; in that environment, V8s will be a big liability. But perhaps most directly for consumers, fuel prices just keep rising.
What this means to you: "That thing got a Hemi?" just doesn't have the playfully insolent ring it once enjoyed — and the ring V8s make for automakers' cash registers is sure to be a casualty, too. — Bill Visnic, Senior Editor, AutoObserver.com
02-14-08, 07:48 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
V-8 or die.......
I just hope it pushes car makers to make advancements with their V-8s. Or stop making cars so heavy. Its not just the engine.
The HP war is just silly sometimes. The 282hp 540 did 0-60 in mid 5s. Then it got 325hp, now what 360hp. Then it will get 400hp with turbos.
THe GS went from 300 to 342, new 8 speed, new engine, the car weighs 300 more lbs, so there is no fuel savings.
The E went from 272 to 300 to now 382.
Do they realize these engines make more power than the old AMG/M cars of not too long ago?
There is no denying, looking at this article, fuel prices have slapped V-8s in the face.
The GS 450h and BMW tt I-6 do make a tougher argument for V-8s.
I just hope it pushes car makers to make advancements with their V-8s. Or stop making cars so heavy. Its not just the engine.
The HP war is just silly sometimes. The 282hp 540 did 0-60 in mid 5s. Then it got 325hp, now what 360hp. Then it will get 400hp with turbos.
THe GS went from 300 to 342, new 8 speed, new engine, the car weighs 300 more lbs, so there is no fuel savings.
The E went from 272 to 300 to now 382.
Do they realize these engines make more power than the old AMG/M cars of not too long ago?
There is no denying, looking at this article, fuel prices have slapped V-8s in the face.
The GS 450h and BMW tt I-6 do make a tougher argument for V-8s.
02-14-08, 08:12 AM
#3
Also, I think there is an increasing disinterest towards trucks and SUVs, which typically require V8 for towing capacity (and the power to lug a 6000 lb behemoth).
Now that V6 crossovers are addressing the issue of more interior room and cargo capacity without the need for towing (most SUVs on the road hardly tow anything ever), the V8 (powered SUVs) will inevitably further decline as predicted.
But the V8 will live on for sporty sedans and coupes, which will always have a cult following of driving enthusiasts; as well as necessary work horses that will ultimately need a V8 to get the job done.
Now that V6 crossovers are addressing the issue of more interior room and cargo capacity without the need for towing (most SUVs on the road hardly tow anything ever), the V8 (powered SUVs) will inevitably further decline as predicted.
But the V8 will live on for sporty sedans and coupes, which will always have a cult following of driving enthusiasts; as well as necessary work horses that will ultimately need a V8 to get the job done.
02-14-08, 10:56 AM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And the hits just keep on coming. If you were around to see the death of the muscle cars, it wasn't just one factor. While there were a lot of people whose voices were still changing saying they would pay whatever it took to drive a muscle car, the factories just quit making them. We had a big gasoline price spike ( you might think gas going from .40/gallon to 1.20/gallon is laughable in todays prices but it was a three times increase in a very short period of time - haven't seen that since) and insurance premiums just went sky high vs hp. You had new federal regulations regarding emissions and safety and the whole industry just transitioned. You can almost see the same environment going on today. Now you have everybody from Edmunds saying interest in V8's is waning to the IIHS saying that hp is unsafe and cars with higher hp are in more accidents. Of course it is knee jerk over reaction but it will certainly affect what types of vehicles the car makers decide to introduce. Most troubling is that while the price of oil and gasoline has sort of moved off the front page, except for these moronic predictions of a 30% drop in gas price, oil has not gotten much cheaper than $90/bbl and is back around $95/bbl. And that is at a time of the year when it should be about at its low. This summer isn't going to be fun at the gas pump.
02-14-08, 11:00 AM
#5
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No reasons for V8s anymore with DI technology and add dual valve timing on top of that. I see companies like Lexus and MB moving to smaller V8s in the future (say 4.0Ls) for prestige purposes. Too bad BMW is putting so much stock in their turbo 4.4L motors, though I think they will be somewhat popular anyway.
02-14-08, 11:03 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No reasons for V8s anymore with DI technology and add dual valve timing on top of that. I see companies like Lexus and MB moving to smaller V8s in the future (say 4.0Ls) for prestige purposes. Too bad BMW is putting so much stock in their turbo 4.4L motors, though I think they will be somewhat popular anyway.
02-14-08, 11:11 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
No reasons for V8s anymore with DI technology and add dual valve timing on top of that. I see companies like Lexus and MB moving to smaller V8s in the future (say 4.0Ls) for prestige purposes. Too bad BMW is putting so much stock in their turbo 4.4L motors, though I think they will be somewhat popular anyway.
We are in a gray area here, as basic Camry/Altima etc V-6s make more power than V-8s of 15 years ago....
V-8s today embarrasses exotics of the 80s...
Trending Topics
02-14-08, 11:48 AM
#9
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And then there is turbo technology. The turbo Subaru Legacy of today is much faster than the turboed Legacy of the early 90s.
02-14-08, 12:10 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-14-08, 12:11 PM
#12
The number of cylinders is not the primary function of smoothness. I'm sure the IS350's engine is smoother than a 1966 Shelby Cobra's V8. 
Harmonic balancing is key to any engine's smoothness. The angle between cylinder the cylinder banks, the length of the stroke, etc all contributes to resonance.
Harmonic balancing is key to any engine's smoothness. The angle between cylinder the cylinder banks, the length of the stroke, etc all contributes to resonance.
02-14-08, 12:48 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: California
Posts: 6,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The number of cylinders is not the primary function of smoothness. I'm sure the IS350's engine is smoother than a 1966 Shelby Cobra's V8. Harmonic balancing is key to any engine's smoothness. The angle between cylinder the cylinder banks, the length of the stroke, etc all contributes to resonance.
Harmonic balancing is key to any engine's smoothness. The angle between cylinder the cylinder banks, the length of the stroke, etc all contributes to resonance.
As for the Shelby Cobra or any prehistoric V8 from that era, I assume you are talking about at idle. Nothing wrong with that as most engines get much smoother off idle as you get shorter timing for individual energy pulses, unless they have some problem. But the tradeoffs we had to make in the 60s for performance at a given rev band were most noticeable at idle. The ability to change timing and mixture back then was as far from the IS350 as an Osborne is to a Mac Air. When the first gas crunch hit and people downsized motors and found out how rough the 4s and 6s could be you had the introduction of the balance shafts which bugger up a lot of harmonic balancing theory at that time. Who knows, in the future they might put active dampers in the car to remove that last bit of NVH from the engine. ANR headsets aren't that far away from being able to do it. If anyone is interested in paying for it that is.
02-14-08, 01:57 PM
#15
When you have V6s making V8 power, it's kinda hard to justify the V8.
Remember the Mazda Millenia? "V8 power with V6 economy" from it's Miller Cycle 2.3 litre engine.
Now you have 4 cylinder engines making that kind of power.
Remember the Mazda Millenia? "V8 power with V6 economy" from it's Miller Cycle 2.3 litre engine.
Now you have 4 cylinder engines making that kind of power.