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Review: 2008 Smart-for-Two

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Old 02-19-08, 08:05 PM
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mmarshall
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Default Review: 2008 Smart-for-Two

A review of the 2008 Smart-for-Two Passion Coupe


http://www.smartusa.com/smart-fortwo-passion.aspx












In a Nutshell: The Bubble Car returns.....only this time with modern safety improvements.




I did not get any direct requests for a Smart-for-Two review, though a couple of CL members liked the fact that I had it on my review list, and wanted to see it after I got all of the regular review requests done. I also wanted to see and test this unique car for my own curiosity (as I plan to do with the upcoming Chinese-designed and built Chery cars when they finally get here). I had wanted to see the Smart at the D.C. Auto Show in January, but its
marketers decided not to bring it to that show, even though it officially went on sale in this area right around the time the show ended (Jan. 27). Don't ask me to try and figure out auto marketers....if I live to be 100 years old, I will NEVER figure out their stupidity sometimes. They can make a chimpanzee look (and even sound) smart. My brother has two parakeets that probably have more intelligence than some of the people in automotive PR.

OK.....enough of that. Let's get to the car and what brings it to the U.S. The Smart-for-Two (production having been stopped on the Smart-for-Four) is imported into the U.S. by the Penske Automotive group, though the Smart Division itself is considered a Mercedes subsidiary. Those of you who follow auto racing know, of course, that Roger Penske is one of the greatest racing drivers and team owners of all time, with many Formula One victories. The
exact relationship between the Penske-Smart-Mercedes groups is unclear, with some Mercedes dealerships getting Smart franchises and others not. The Smart shop I visited today (I was fortunate to have one a few miles away, there are presently only some 70 in the U.S.) was not actually in the Mercedes building but a smaller, separate facility right next to it, with its own showroom and facilities. But this could work out to be a potential negative.......the car could be pulled back out of the American market as fast as it came in, like Malcolm Bricklin's Yugo was some years ago, leaving some owners
high and dry for parts and service.

However, right now, with the high price of gas (crude oil exceeded $100 a barrel today), there is a lot of interest in this car....never mind the fact that, at least according to the according to the literature, premium gas is required. So, some of the car's high gas mileage, of course, is eaten up in more expensive fuel. Nevertheless, demand is currently outrunning supply (I wonder how many people know about the fuel requirement when they order the car?), especially with the limited number that will be imported (they told me today how many cars are coming in the first year, but I forgot what it was). Currently, in the D.C area, there is a 16-month wait for delivered new cars. None are being sold off the lot...you put down an refundable amount (this dealership was only asking $100), pick out the model, color, and options you want, put your name on a waiting list, and wait for it to come over on the boat. Heck, in 16 months, the car will already be over a year old, brand-new, and will have depreciated before you even take delivery. At the risk of sounding crude and vulgar, IMO, screw that.

Three different versions of the Smart-for-two are offered in the American market: a base "Pure" coupe, an uplevel "Passion" coupe (the car I drove), and a Passion Cabriolet (convertible), which is more of a pop-top than a real top-down convertible....much of the frame sticks up behind the seats. All share a rear-mounted, rear-drive 1.0L in-line three-cylinder and a five-speed computer-operated, automanual transmission. My rather poor experience with this transmission (and that of others who have reviewed the car) suggest it would be better off with either a straight manual transmission, a conventional automatic, or a CVT, but, for now, we are stuck with this one....more on that below.

But, all in all, this was a very interesting little (and I MEAN little) car. And is it fit for American roads and American driving conditions? Read on.








Model Reviewed: 2008 Smart-for-Two Passion Coupe



Base Price: $13,590


Major Options:


Comfort Package $850

Smart Sound System $$350

Anti-Theft Alarm $160

Clock/Tachometer $120

Fog Lamps $110

Silver Metallic Paint $225

Trident Silver Metallic Trim $175


Destination/Freight $645



List Price as Reviewed: $16,225




Exterior Color: Silver Metallic/Tridion Silver Metallic trim

Interior: Black Leather



Drivetrain:

Rear-engine, RWD, 1.0L, in-line 3 cylinder, 70 HP @ 5800 RPM, Torque 68 Ft-lbs @ 4500 RPM,
5-speed automated manual transmission.







PLUSSES:



Go-Kart manuverability.

Easy to park anywhere.

Plastic body panels easy to change and are ding/dent/corrosion resistant.

Extremely high gas mileage for a non-hybrid.

Well-engineered roll cage.

Tank-solid doors and door handles.

Tank-solid, easy-to-use seat adjuster hardware.

Tank-solid-feeling transmission shifter and paddles.

Attractive, well-done steering wheel.

Excellent headroom and legroom for two people.

Nice exterior paint colors.

Relatively nice paint job.

Simple, no-nonsense controls.

Quick steering response.

Standard Vehicle Stability system (and it is needed).

10-MPH increments makes speedometer easier to read than 20-MPH.

Relatively nice stereo for a car this class.

Heated Leather seats part of Comfort Package.

Relatively useful rear cargo area for a car this size.

Many dealer accessories available.








MINUSES:



Weak engine.

Premium gas required.

No front cargo space like with most rear-engine cars.

Current 16-month waiting list for delivery.

Awkward brake pedal.

Lunge-O-Matic transmission.

Questionable speedometer accuracy.

Gets blown around in crosswinds.

Extra-cost metallic paint and body-cage trim.

Relatively weak air conditioning.

Awkward lower-dash knee-level protrusion.

Non-adjustable steering column.

Narrow, extremely tall center of gravity means care in driving.

No spare tire.

3-position interior air ducting instead of 5.

Flimsy side mirrors.

Park-bench-flat bucket seats.

Unconventional ignition switch.

Weak 2/24 bumper-to-bumper warranty....anyting more costs extra.

Relatively high engine and road noise.

Limited dealer network.

Unclear future in the U.S.






EXTERIOR:

This is truly a unique car by modern standards, and we have seen nothing like it in the American market for many years. The first impression of it, as you walk up to it, is the extremely small outside dimensions. This car is some two feet SHORTER than even a standard Mini Cooper, which itself is one of the smallest of American-market subcompacts. In many ways, with its micro-mini size and bulbous styling, it reminds me of the BMW Isetta and
Messerschmitt KR200 Bubble-Cars of the 1950's.....essentially motorcycle-based cars designed to sip fuel in a postwar Germany without gasoline and oil. (No offense to the Smart, but I always bust out laughing when I see the Isetta and KR200....those two cars are just hilarious). Even today, after seeing them for some 50 years, the Isetta and KR200 make me chuckle.

But, back to the Smart. Though its styling is unique, there are some traces and similarities to the larger Mercedes A-Class, another entry-level model (The A-class is strictly European, and Mercedes has not yet decided whether the A-Class will come to the U.S. or not). The Smart is not necessarily a rolling coffin like the minicars of the 50s and 60s....it benefits from the noted Mercedes technology in safety and crash-worthiness, arguably, along with Volvo, the auto industry's best.

The Smart also borrows from a Saturn idea of the 1990's.....plastic body panels clipped to a rigid frame underneath, although in Saturn's case, they used a welded space-frame while Mercedes uses a unibody "Tridion" safety cell. The Smart, unlike Saturn, also uses plastic on the roof of the base model.....my tested Passion model had the glass panoramic roof, but it does not slide open like a regular sunroof/moonroof (one reason for the great headroom, but
more on that later). The Tridion frame is painted either black or (for $175), Tridion (what else?) Silver Metallic. The exposed parts of the painted frame show through around the edges of the plastic body panels hung on it, and it has a two-tone vertical trim effect. My test car also had the extra-cost ($225) Silver Metallic paint, which was done pretty well for a car of this class. All of the metallic colors, in the German-designed car tradition, cost extra....a silly and unneeded marketing ploy that the German auto industry simply refuses to give up. And, speaking of the paint colors, there is a nice relief from the usual Murphy's Funeral Home shades, with a nice Electric Blue Metallic, Bright Red, and Bright yellow. I like to see paint jobs like this.....I get tired of the usual silver (even though my test car was silver), white, black, beige, gray, burgundy, dark blue, etc...

An even nicer feature of the way this car is constructed and painted is the way that a complete exterior color change can be done at low cost by simply disconnecting a few clips and wires and then clipping on all-new panels of a different color. The dealership simply orders a new complete set of body panels......doors, front panel there is no hood), roof (if applicable), and tailgate cover in any of the factory original colors, unclips all the old
panels, clips on the new ones of a different color, and Presto, you've got a almost complete color change for less money than a decent repaint job in a body shop (the Smart dealership I was at says they do the complete job for $1100). The Tridion frame, of course, remains the original color....you're pretty much stuck with that. So, if one of you guys decides that Marshall doesn't know what he's talking about, buys a Smart in a dull, funeral-home shade (yes, there are a couple of them too), and THEN decides that Marshall DOES know what he's talking about and want to convert it to bright blue, yellow, or red, no problem.....it can be done easily, cheaply, and without a mess.

So, aside from that, how is the exterior done? Well, by today's standards, the wheels and tires looked almost like donuts...I had to stoop down and look at the tire casting to verify that they were actually 15-inch wheels, with 155/60-series tires in front and 175/55 in the rear (the rears are wider, of course, because the drivetrain is in the rear). Those are considered small wheels ands tires now, but it makes me remember the cars I grew
with in the 60s...big luxury cars got 15-inch wheels, and compacts got 13's. Cars the Smart's size, back then, got 10-inch wheels. My Passion coupe had nice alloys....the base "Pure" model gets steel wheels and plastic covers. The exterior hardware was generally solid and well-done, except for the flimsy side mirrors and antenna that felt like they were about to fall off when you swiveled them. The doors, despite the plastic panels, feel solid, and the exterior door latches and handles (perhaps because of the car's noted safety enginering) feel so solid and durable that a tank couldn't pull them off....they seem to be the same ones Mercedes uses on the G-Wagon (Gelandewagon), an extremely heavy-duty, military-derived vehicle. The high (5 ft) roofline, of course, allows upright seating and great headroom (more on that below), but also makes for a high center of gravity and potentially tipsy handling (also more on that below). The wheelbase is incredibly short (less than 74 inches), but, of course, that makes for kiddie-car manuverability (yes, more on that below, too).




UNDERHOOD:

There is no front "hood" or cargo space at all.....see CARGO AREA/TRUNK.



INTERIOR:

Given the car's ultra-small exterior dimensions, even with the high roof, you wonder how any adults or cargo can fit inside at all. Well, when you step inside, you find that two adults DO fit....and fit well. The aforementioned high roofline (and, in my car, the glass roof panel) make for planty of headroom, even with my baseball cap. Road and Track magazine, in their Smart review, had no problems with their tallest staffer, who is 6' 4". Legroom, likewise, is fine for all but (maybe) the very tallest NBA guys. The basic interior is not plush by any means, although my car had leather seats, baseball-style leather-stiched shift ****, and leather-wrapped steering wheel. The wheel was quite nicely done in look and feel, despite silver-painted plastic spokes......I liked the simple design and lack of buttons cluttering it up. The seats themself were park-bench flat and unsupportive, and the leather had the same flat, grainy look and feel I've criticized in some BMWs (but, hey, what do you expect for $16,000....you're not going to get Jaguar-or Lexus quality leather. In a way, though, I can understand why maybe Mercedes put in seats like this. This car is simply not capable of sports-car handling (in fact, it would be dangerous...more on that below).....so why put in sports-car-supportive seats? That would only encourage driving and cornering beyond the car's capabilities. The seat hardware is not only simple and easy to use, with BIG pull-rings and levers for fore-aft and rake adjustment, but, like the exteror door handles, extremely solid and durable...again, it feels like a tank couldn't pull them off, a characteristic also shared by the durable but slick-operating transmission shifter.

The dash has some of the characteristics of the Mini-Cooper, and the way the optional ($120) twin-set clock and tachometer are painted silver and stuck up on top of the middle part of the dash like Mickey-Mouse ears is reminiscent of the way the Mini does some of its gauges. Unlike the Mini, however, the speedometer in the Smart is set in front of the driver where it belongs....but the driver, of course, still has to move his eyes far right to see the center-mounted tach. There is a lot of silver-painted plastic on the dash, but it does not look or feel cheap like that in some cars. I liked the half-moon-shaped speedometer's 10-MPH increments (10, 20, 30, etc....). I find that easier to read at a glance than 20 MPH increments (20, 40, 60 etc...). In fact, I wish that were made a Federal standard for new cars, though I've had a couple of people tell me they like the 20-40-60 series. The dash vents were silver plastic but felt rock-solid, both from material quality and how they swiveled. The climate-control thermostat, instead of the usual manual blue-red **** or lever, was a cleverly integrated slide lever, marked 60-70-80 degrees, that slid up and down the right center-dash vent; the matching fan-speed lever was integrated into the center-left vent. The stereo sounded quite nice (better than in some more expensive German cars I have driven), though the stereo controls/buttons were slightly unconventional and took some getting used to. The steering column was non-adjustable but still I had no problems getting comfortable, even with the limited-adjustments of the seats.

While, of course, this was no luxury car, and, in some ways, was even stark inside ( bright red seats are available if desired), there was only one thing inside that I really disliked. That was a large, thick, protruding, unpadded ridge that sticks out from the lower-dash and was reminiscent of the one on the first-generation Cadillac CTS....and no, I didn't like that one either. It is hard, unpadded, and interferes with the knees of tall people like me. I don't know why the lower-dash was designed like this.....I have to assume that it is not a safety-related knee bar because they usually are padded.




CARGO AREA/TRUNK:

The rear cargo area, like the interior in general, is not quite as small as the Munchkin-sized outside dimensions of the car would suggest, primarily because of only two seats. The nice, high, squared-off rear roofline helps a lot. I just don't understand this obsession automakers have with rakish, slant-down rear ends in hatchbacks and wagons...if this car had a roofline like that, you, could forget carrying almost anything significant.

As it is, though, because of the shoe-box roof design, there is at least some useful cargo space in back. The cargo area itself is not very well finished, and so you won't find plush carpeting or furry headliner back there, but there are some useful features, like a cargo cover behind the seats and a compartment built into the drop-down tailgate. The upper glass can be opened independent of the tailgate.

Pull up the rear floor panel, and the 1.0L in-line three-cylinder engine and 5-speed automanual transmission lurk underneath, with NO big plastic engine cover to hamper access...the alternator, for example, is right up, high on the right, in front of you. Dipsticks and reserviors are in relatively easy reach, but you have to bend down some, of course. The entire engine/transmission assembly is mounted on a subframe that, in a rear-end crash, is designed to slide forward and down.....under the passenger compartment (wonder what happens to the fuel tank?). It is an interesting....and clever....design in safety and space efficiency. The tailgate and its latch, with heavy, solid metal under the plastic panel, feel virtually as solid as that of an average pickup truck, although, of course, they are much smaller. This, of course, is done to help rear crash-resistance.





ON THE ROAD:

Start the engine with a conventional ignition key and an unconventional, Saab-style, console-mounted ignition switch. The gruff little three-cylinder pops to life, and you know at once that you are not in a Town Car, but the idle is actually not all that rough or noisy, considering the inherent lack-of-balance, three cylinder design, relative lack of insulation, and its closeness right back under you. Foot on the brake, pop the rock-solid shift lever back into Drive, and the first thing you notice, weaving your way in and out of parked cars to get out of the dealer lot, is the incredible manuverability. The turning radius is officially listed at 28.7 feet, but it feels even tighter than that....just like a go-kart.

Once on the road, however, the rather weak, unpleant, unrefined nature of the drivetrain makes itself known. The engine has enough power for normal driving....just barely, but no more. Engine noise, while not extreme, was prominent. The computer-controlled automated manual transmission, with its automatic clutch, had awful shift charactristics in all three modes.....full automatic, manual lever, and manual shift-paddle. First, you would feel a
shudder and the engine lugging while starting up from rest, and the car would move off like a slug. Then, during the shifts, the computer would pump the engine torque up and down, and alternatively slip and grab the automatic clutch during the shift, to the point where the whole front end of the car (what little front end there was) would bob up and down noticeably and you would pitch forward and back in your seat. Repeat this every couple of seconds in dense stop-and-go-traffic, and you start to feel like you're a cowboy in the middle of a rodeo. (Road & Track magazine, BTW, noted much the same thing on the Smart they tested). You can smooth out the shifts a little, I found, by lifting your right foot a little when you feel the shift coming on....that lessens the bucking tendency.

And, of course, the ultra-short 73.5 inch wheelbase, tall structure, narrow stance, rear weight bias, high center of gravity, and the inherent instability only add to the porpoising motions during the shifts. The general ride quality, however, is not bad....in the Mercedes tradition (remember, this car is Mercedes-engineered) the suspension is soft enough to absorb bumps yet firm enough, along with the design of the power steering rack, to have good steering response. Reactions to steering input are quick, but the power stering, while not numb, lacks a BMW-type feel (base Smart models come with manual steering and no power assist, and can be expected to have slower response and better road feel). Again, though, the short wheelbase encourages some porpoising and fore-aft motions over bumps and wavy road surfaces...the rear-weight bias, with the engine and drivetrain in the back, allows the ultra-light front end to bob up, down, and sideways over bumps and irregularitues. It also allows that light front end to be blown around like a kite in crosswinds....I tested the Smart right behind a winter cold-frontal passage here in the D.C area with crosswinds of 30-35 MPH, and had noticeable front-end wander and instablity.

This is not a car for Interstate long-distance driving. The transmission gearing, even with its 5 speeds, allows the engine RPM to get up there, even during normal cruising (60 MPH in 5th gear saw around 3000 RPM), so engine noise, while not extreme, is prominent. The otherwise
moderately soft ride (for its size), as mentioned before, has occasional porposing motions. Wind noise, however, is generally a good point from the well-sealed doors and windows. The climate-control works well, except for air conditioning that seemed a little weak....though winter, of course, is not the best time of year to test A/C. And, like it or not, you're likely to get blown around....or otherwise intimidated......by big SUVs and trucks. Let's be realistic. Yes, the Smart has state-of-the-art safety gear and superb crash protection for its size (its Mercedes-design sees to that), but when a Smart and a much bigger vehicle both end up taking up the same space at the same time, the laws of mathematics and physics don't lie.....we all know who is going to come out second-best.

Get off the Interstate onto a winding, two-lane road and you'll find the car is not at home either. Though the steering response is quick, and the car's weight very low (only some 1800-1900 lbs) for agility, you will quickly notice this is no Miata. The high, narrow stance (the car is as high as it is wide), high center of gravity, and somewhat comfort-oriented suspension (despite the porposing) mean CAREFUL cornering. While body lean is not extreme (I've seen worse, particularly on the old Mitsubishi Expo wagon and Renault Le Car), this car will clearly flip over if you tempt it and thumb your nose at common sense. Smarts are hard enough to get as it is (I've already mentioned the 16-month wait here in the D.C. area), and I wasn't about to wreck one (and maybe hurt myself as well) trying to play sports-car in the corners. You simply can't do that with a shoe box. Mercedes has recognized that by making Vehicle Stability Control standard even on this entry-level car (though, of course, VSC only corrects for understeer/oversteer, not necessarily body roll). Want to turn the VSC off, like so many enthusiasts do? No dice ......there's no on-off switch. The Mercedes lawyers are not going to encourage you in any way....if you flip one of these cars, it's on you, not the factory.

Brakes, unfortunately, were another annoying feature. The power front disc/rear drum combination themselves performed well and had no problems (there is very little weight to stop here, despite the small rotors and drums), but the pedal, hinged at the floor rather than from above like most modern cars, had an awkward, unusual feel to it. And the modulation and sponginess were terrible....you had to press the brake pedal about a third of the way down to get it to start to react, and then anothe half-inch or so for noticeable response. A check of the master cylinder brake fluid level was OK....apparantly it is something inherent in the pedal design. On the plus side, the pedal is fine for larger feet....I don't have any hang-up problems with my big shoes on either the brake or gas pedals (and I remember how awful the pedals were on the Lotus Elise, a mini-sports car).

And, last, on the road, the speedometer seemed to be reading high. It read 40-50 when the car seemed, to me, like it was only doing about 35-40.






THE VERDICT?

Obviously, this is not a car for everyone. It is not a long-distance car for the Interstates. Nor it it a car for the twisties....care must be taken in its handling. Nor is it a truck or minivan designed to haul things. Nor is it a good car for strong winds. Nor, in spite of the good-for-its-size safety features and solid roll-cage construction for crash integrity, would I want to mix it up on a regular basis with big trucks and full-size SUVs. A 70 HP, normally-aspirated, three-cylinder engine should not require premium gas...the whole idea of this vehicle is low operating costs. And the 2-year warranty, IMO, only adds insult to injury.

But, for inner-city use and ease of parking, it is delightful. It will turn around on a dime, and you can literally park it anywhere. It will fit SIDEWAYS into some spaces that some vehicles can't even get into lengthwise. You might even be able to cram it into some motorcycle spaces. Just be careful not to run those small (by today's standards) 15-inch wheels and tires into big-city potholes (they are especially bad in Washington, D.C. and New York City). Much of the interior hardware is rock-solid, and space efficiency is excellent.

But, even so, there are other small, entry-level cars out there that offer as good or better value. The Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit offer top-notch build quality, room for four (or 2+2), and much smoother, more refined drivetrains at $14-15,000 or so...and the Fit has plenty of space inside for carrying things. The Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio, at $12,000-15,000, also (now) have excellent build quality and 10/100 and 5/60 warrranties to the Smart's 2/24. The Smart, yes, has excellent gas mileage (EPA figures are 33 city/40 highway, and these reflect the newer, more realistic mileage tests), but on expensive premium gas, and a number of other small cars, even non-hybrids, can come close to this figure...on cheaper fuel. None, though, can match the Smart's turning circle......low-speed manuverability is truly superb.


So, in a nutshell, I see little reason to actually buy a Smart unless one wants the utmost in tight-space manuverability, easy body-panel replacement, and more weather/crash protection than a motorcycle would offer.

Last edited by mmarshall; 07-10-09 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 02-19-08, 08:19 PM
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16K and 16 month of waiting, with 70HP??? It looks good and cute, but
I would pay no more than 11K for one just for going to work.


Thank you, again!!!
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Old 02-19-08, 08:23 PM
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mmarshall
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Originally Posted by blacksc400
16K and 16 month of waiting, with 70HP??? It looks good and cute, but
I would pay no more than 11K for one just for going to work.


Thank you, again!!!
Sure...anytime.

I'm not impressed with its value much either, especially compared to entry-level Korean cars, but it does have some interesting features.
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Old 02-19-08, 08:24 PM
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i want one.
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Old 02-19-08, 08:37 PM
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mmarshall
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Originally Posted by iKenn
i want one.
Better have some paitience.
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Old 02-19-08, 10:01 PM
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wait wait its rwd?
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Old 02-19-08, 10:26 PM
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the only reason i would want one is so that i could park perpendicularly on the street haha
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Old 02-19-08, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
But, even so, there are other small, entry-level cars out there that offer as good or better value...

None, though, can match the Smart's turning circle......low-speed manuverability is truly superb.
Great review Mike!

Value is the first thing that I have always considered when I heard SMART was coming to the U.S.

Sure, the SMART-for-two has the maneuverability and space efficiency, but I don't think it justifies the price with the cons you stated above (such as the insulting warranty [especially for an MB-based product], the gas mileage for something with only 70hp, etc).

--

I short, do you think it will survive, or is it a fad that will die on American soil? Will Americans embrace SMART, or will the novelty wear off?

Considering American tastes in driving, does the SMART "fit" our culture?
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Old 02-19-08, 10:39 PM
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I'd only pay 5K MAX for that much car.
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Old 02-19-08, 11:16 PM
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Diablo Smart anyone?
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Old 02-19-08, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by balutsc300
wait wait its rwd?
Yeah, it's an RR like a 911 lol. Rear engined, rear wheel drive with a staggered wheel setup.

Originally Posted by mmarshall
Sure...anytime.

I'm not impressed with its value much either, especially compared to entry-level Korean cars, but it does have some interesting features.
great review! Thanks!

One point, the panoramic roof is polycarbonate, not glass. The old smart (the one sold in Canada) had a glass roof and does not bode well for centre of gravity lol. The polycarbonate one should help. The roof is also not interchangeable on the Pure. It's black no matter what. The Pulse model in Europe gets wider wheels - 175 front, 195 rear.



Well it does have all the safety features as standard equipment for one. Dual front airbags, side head/torso airbags, ABS w/EBD, ASC, ESP, CBC and Brake Assist which the Koreans don't (except the airbags bit). Don't know how the smart compares in the US (I know the pricing since it's all over the news but don't know how the prices are for the other subcompacts). In Canada, it's pretty competitive to the Yaris/Fit/Aveo etc.
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Old 02-20-08, 01:02 AM
  #12  
Big Andy
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We've had smarts over here for quite few years but to be honest I've never fancied one. The engine and gearbox has always been a weak point and I'm surprised they didn't do something about it for the second generation model. The ride is alsoa problem due to its short wheelbase - you get a curious "noddy dog" sensation as you go along. The only advantage to me is the extremely short length which makes finding a parking space easier, relatively useful for parking in sidestreets in the UK and Europe - probably less so in the US.

On the plus side I've never heard of one rolling over, so while they may feel a bit unstable and you have the odd "brown trousers" moment if you corner at speed, the reality is that you are safer than you think.
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Old 02-20-08, 04:45 AM
  #13  
mmarshall
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Originally Posted by IS350owner
I'd only pay 5K MAX for that much car.

Some entry level cars from China are (supposedly) on the way that won't cost much more than that..they are rumored to start around 7K or so. We'll see.....I'll believe it when I see it.
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Old 02-20-08, 04:49 AM
  #14  
mmarshall
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Originally Posted by Big Andy
On the plus side I've never heard of one rolling over, so while they may feel a bit unstable and you have the odd "brown trousers" moment if you corner at speed, the reality is that you are safer than you think.
This car, by its very design and center of gravity, scares you a little and makes you think twice while you are driving, so I suspect that the lack of rollovers in actual service may just be people taking my advice and driving this car sensibly.....shall we say, "Smartly"?
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Old 02-20-08, 04:50 AM
  #15  
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I didn't mind driving these in Tokyo but cannot imagine anywhere else that might be a good place for it besides NYC and the inner cities of Europe.

We have a dealership here too...dunno why. I'd MUCH rather have a used honda fit anywhere in the States.
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