44MPG Standard in Cali
02-26-08, 03:36 PM
#31
44mpg is ludicrous. Why don't they suggest 100mpg, something unachievable? They should regulate the production number of SUVs and pickup trucks. They should make a law only business people could buy pickup trucks, not any family. If your household has less than two people, you MUST buy car only, not any kind of truck. If you buy a hybrid or electric vehicle, the state sales tax is eliminated. If you buy a car with engine bigger than 4.0L, you are obliged to pay a very heavy tax, like 30% of the car's msrp, and the tax increases proportional to the increase of the engine. If the engine is 7.0L or above you need to pay 60% of the car's msrp as gas tax. Car insurance rate should also be proportional to the engine size and car weight. The smaller the engine, the cheaper the insurance fee. Government should do many things to discourage consumers to buy thirsty vehicles, not just asking more and more from the automakers and their engineers until there is no way to reach what those politicians ask for. Of course, automakers could do something to change the way they sell cars, for example, not every car needs sunroof and heated seats, these things are weight which obliterate the fuel economy. And Americans should eat less to keep their own weight down so there is less burden for the vehicles.
02-26-08, 05:37 PM
#32
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2020 is in 12 years. In 1984, the most fuel-efficient car on US roads (Honda CRX HF) got 59 mpg average, under the old rating system. Let's be extremely pessimistic and say the new ratings would decrease that by 15%. So 50 mpg average.
Now, 24 years later, the most fuel-efficient car (going by the prius since the fortwo isn't officially available yet) gets 46 mpg. So in half the time the MOST efficient car has LOST 4 mpg, you (and the California goverment) expect that we'll be able to increase the AVERAGE fuel economy for ALL vehicles by 16.5mpg? Outright lunacy.
02-26-08, 05:48 PM
#33
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Of course I read it.
2020 is in 12 years. In 1984, the most fuel-efficient car on US roads (Honda CRX HF) got 59 mpg average, under the old rating system. Let's be extremely pessimistic and say the new ratings would decrease that by 15%. So 50 mpg average.
Now, 24 years later, the most fuel-efficient car (going by the prius since the fortwo isn't officially available yet) gets 46 mpg. So in half the time the MOST efficient car has LOST 4 mpg, you (and the California goverment) expect that we'll be able to increase the AVERAGE fuel economy for ALL vehicles by 16.5mpg? Outright lunacy.
2020 is in 12 years. In 1984, the most fuel-efficient car on US roads (Honda CRX HF) got 59 mpg average, under the old rating system. Let's be extremely pessimistic and say the new ratings would decrease that by 15%. So 50 mpg average.
Now, 24 years later, the most fuel-efficient car (going by the prius since the fortwo isn't officially available yet) gets 46 mpg. So in half the time the MOST efficient car has LOST 4 mpg, you (and the California goverment) expect that we'll be able to increase the AVERAGE fuel economy for ALL vehicles by 16.5mpg? Outright lunacy.
Also, outside TOyota and to a lesser extent Honda, no car maker GAVE A **** the last 30 years to do ANYTHING that could truly advance the car with MPG and emissions.
If Toyota didn't meet and try to build the Prius, well would hybrids be catching on? I doubt it. TOyota took a HUGE gamble as they saw the future and part of their culture is being responsible to the environment.
High MPG is not a horny topic, its not what gets enthusiasts talking and its not "cool" in a sense. But we need it. NOW.
Cali politicians are nuts, IMO but I can kind of see their point.
02-26-08, 07:31 PM
#34
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Everyone's bashing Cali lawmakers but read the article. 15 OTHER STATES (accounting for HALF of all vehicle sales in the US) are considering this regulation as well. So this may effect basically all vehicles available in the US and not just restrict California.
I'm all for greatly enhancing mpg's but I know that 10 years seems a bit far fetched to reach those figures. It COULD be done but would cost automakers billions in R&D. Money they don't have. Only Toyota could attempt to afford the R&D required.
I'm all for greatly enhancing mpg's but I know that 10 years seems a bit far fetched to reach those figures. It COULD be done but would cost automakers billions in R&D. Money they don't have. Only Toyota could attempt to afford the R&D required.
02-26-08, 07:44 PM
#36
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Why should the consumer be at fault here? I mean yes it is partially the consumers fault. But what they need to focus on is obtaining more fuels, and reducing prices as shortage is a load of BS. Focus on making prices for fuel less, that should be their main goal, not how to screw people into paying more in taxes or fuel tax costs or forcing people to taking credit to buy a new car or sell their old one because they are now taxed for a poorer gas mileage. The way that sounds that if you aren't wealthy then you are more or less screwed.
02-26-08, 07:49 PM
#37
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Because cosumers in this country have too much freedom in choosing and buying and using extravagant SUVs and trucks......and I don't think this freedom should continue. I am not saying you can't buy a high performance cars or heavy SUVs, just that you need to pay more for doing so, sort of a pay back for the environment and also a discouragement for choosing such vehicles. I think everyone is responsible to save some fuel for the earth, not just the automakers or only the consumers.
Would you like to move to the U.K? Or Europe where you are raped for driving a vehicle? This country was FOUNDED on the principles of FREEDOM and CHOICE. Its not a perfect system but I wouldn't trade it for anything else, even with nutso politians, gas guzzling cars, and SUVs the size of trailer homes.
That is our right as Americans. I would LOVE for AMERICANS to make SMARTER choices as well as our companies making more efforts for better efficiency.
This is bigger than cars. Solar power, recycling, hell more efficient bulbs in your home.
I'm all for responsibility and choice but no way in hell do I want my government TELLING me what to drive.
02-26-08, 09:02 PM
#39
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The article presupposes switching to a more fuel efficient vehicle is "downgrading." And what will companies like lamborghini and ferrari do? Are they to go out of business? Or simply won't sell in these states anymore. Hard to think of a 44mpg Murcielago.
02-27-08, 12:08 AM
#40
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dont mean to change the main subject, but gas prices have reached the highest in a while.
i passed by my usual gas stations in San Fran and it was $3.89 a gallon for premium Chevron. is this world going nuts!
i passed by my usual gas stations in San Fran and it was $3.89 a gallon for premium Chevron. is this world going nuts!
02-27-08, 01:20 AM
#41
While I think 44 mpg is ludicrous as well, I do think MPG is something we need to start thinking about and while this law won't pass for sure something like it will, and something this lofty will make automakers start working full steam at getting closer to it, which is good.
02-27-08, 03:51 AM
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I think people are also forgetting that this isn't a move to put everyone in a Prius-like vehicle. This is a move to get automakers to produce technologies that will allow an SUV or pickup truck or sports car, or whatever vehicle type to achieve these new standards.
Don't think we'll be left with only 10 small models to choose from. And this will not be a "downgrade", it will be an upgrade.
Don't think we'll be left with only 10 small models to choose from. And this will not be a "downgrade", it will be an upgrade.
02-27-08, 04:53 AM
#43
In many asian countries the cars are taxed according to engine displacement. I kid you not...a BMW 728/730 is very common place. As is a Benz S280 or S320. BMW 520, 318 etc. I think you get my point. And what is rediculous....a brand new 2008 BMW 730i over there cost WAAYY more than a fully decked out BMW V12 760Li here! Strange thing though, Lexus seems to offer the same engine options there as they do everywhere else. A la IS250/350, GS350, RX350, LX570, LS460. And yes the tax is quite high lol. I guess a Lexus is a real ballers car over there 
The cars are taxed under two brackets. First when you buy it, you pay a tax on the cost of the car(usually close to 40-50%, some smaller countries such as Singapore are 100% or more). Then afterwards every year you have to pay a tax depending on the displacement of the engine. The tax increases exponentially with increase in engine size.
My parents have a 07 RX350 in Taiwan. The cost of a RX over there can buy a LX570 fully loaded here with some money left over to spare. Also, the engine is a 3.5L which is considered "high displacment" so there's quite a tax premium on that every year. They were considering a LX570 but the engine tax was staggering so they decided against that lol.
This is why all the Japanese companies produced so many tiny 4 and 6 cylinder engines. They pack a ton of technology(turbocharging, vtec, high revving, high compression) into a small engine compared to American engines of equal displacement.
And don't forget we have the cheapest gasoline in the world, well not counting the OPEC countries lol. Check out the petrol prices in Europe and Asia and gas prices in Cali will be a joke.
So you see...we have it really good here in the USA!
The cars are taxed under two brackets. First when you buy it, you pay a tax on the cost of the car(usually close to 40-50%, some smaller countries such as Singapore are 100% or more). Then afterwards every year you have to pay a tax depending on the displacement of the engine. The tax increases exponentially with increase in engine size.
My parents have a 07 RX350 in Taiwan. The cost of a RX over there can buy a LX570 fully loaded here with some money left over to spare. Also, the engine is a 3.5L which is considered "high displacment" so there's quite a tax premium on that every year. They were considering a LX570 but the engine tax was staggering so they decided against that lol.
This is why all the Japanese companies produced so many tiny 4 and 6 cylinder engines. They pack a ton of technology(turbocharging, vtec, high revving, high compression) into a small engine compared to American engines of equal displacement.
And don't forget we have the cheapest gasoline in the world, well not counting the OPEC countries lol. Check out the petrol prices in Europe and Asia and gas prices in Cali will be a joke.
So you see...we have it really good here in the USA!
02-27-08, 06:41 AM
#44
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02-27-08, 08:06 AM
#45
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In many asian countries the cars are taxed according to engine displacement. I kid you not...a BMW 728/730 is very common place. As is a Benz S280 or S320. BMW 520, 318 etc. I think you get my point. And what is rediculous....a brand new 2008 BMW 730i over there cost WAAYY more than a fully decked out BMW V12 760Li here! Strange thing though, Lexus seems to offer the same engine options there as they do everywhere else. A la IS250/350, GS350, RX350, LX570, LS460. And yes the tax is quite high lol. I guess a Lexus is a real ballers car over there
The cars are taxed under two brackets. First when you buy it, you pay a tax on the cost of the car(usually close to 40-50%, some smaller countries such as Singapore are 100% or more). Then afterwards every year you have to pay a tax depending on the displacement of the engine. The tax increases exponentially with increase in engine size.
My parents have a 07 RX350 in Taiwan. The cost of a RX over there can buy a LX570 fully loaded here with some money left over to spare. Also, the engine is a 3.5L which is considered "high displacment" so there's quite a tax premium on that every year. They were considering a LX570 but the engine tax was staggering so they decided against that lol.
This is why all the Japanese companies produced so many tiny 4 and 6 cylinder engines. They pack a ton of technology(turbocharging, vtec, high revving, high compression) into a small engine compared to American engines of equal displacement.
And don't forget we have the cheapest gasoline in the world, well not counting the OPEC countries lol. Check out the petrol prices in Europe and Asia and gas prices in Cali will be a joke.
So you see...we have it really good here in the USA!
The cars are taxed under two brackets. First when you buy it, you pay a tax on the cost of the car(usually close to 40-50%, some smaller countries such as Singapore are 100% or more). Then afterwards every year you have to pay a tax depending on the displacement of the engine. The tax increases exponentially with increase in engine size.
My parents have a 07 RX350 in Taiwan. The cost of a RX over there can buy a LX570 fully loaded here with some money left over to spare. Also, the engine is a 3.5L which is considered "high displacment" so there's quite a tax premium on that every year. They were considering a LX570 but the engine tax was staggering so they decided against that lol.
This is why all the Japanese companies produced so many tiny 4 and 6 cylinder engines. They pack a ton of technology(turbocharging, vtec, high revving, high compression) into a small engine compared to American engines of equal displacement.
And don't forget we have the cheapest gasoline in the world, well not counting the OPEC countries lol. Check out the petrol prices in Europe and Asia and gas prices in Cali will be a joke.
So you see...we have it really good here in the USA!
I came from Asia, and I am pretty surprised to see people here are complaining about 3000$ gas guzzler tax on V10 M5. You get raped for that kind of large displacement engine over there.
we have it really really really good here in the good ole' USA.