whoster

I picked up a GS4 (98) for $10,900.

bought new tires, did a DIY starter change (only $269 for a Toyota factory refurb starter)

and some elbow grease in cleaning the car.. it's good as new, with 106K miles on the ODO when i bought it. This was around September of 07.

UDel

Since you get alot of snow/ice I would not want to get into buying a rwd daily driver especially one that gets pretty bad gas mileage and may cost you more then want to own but if you really want one then that is your choice. Changing winter/summer tires every year can be a big pain.

The transmission issue with the pre 04 TL was not as bad as you may read around on the internet, we have a 99TL and 03CL(same trans and engine as the TL) and have never had any issues and the TL has 100K miles. I know alot of people with pre 04 TLs and have not heard of any of them with any tranny problems. The 99 TL had the 4 speed auto and did not have the transmission issues like the 2000 and up 5speed models but it still got the tranny extended warranty and were also inspected and a special kit added to aid in lubrication. The pre 04 TLs have a warranty extension to 100K miles so that is something to consider, if it does not go out by 100K miles and was inpected and the lubrication tube added then it is most likely not defective and won't give you any trouble. Most of the CLs and TLs that I read that were having tranny problems were type S models that were driven pretty hard, many were modified for performance and some of the mulitple tranny posts seemed a little unbelievable. I would not rule out 99-03 TL or CL just because that some had tranny issues, just have a Acura tech look over it for any signs of problems and that the inspection was done, if it has over 30K miles and there is no evidence of any problems then it is most likely not defective, our TL and CL are not exactly babied and have not had any kind problems and have strong transmissions. It is not like the majority just fail or else you would be hearing alot more about it they are excellent cars and have been much more trouble free then my Lexus GS430.

You may want to check out the pre 05 RLs for a nice 4 door luxury sedan, they can be had at good prices and are in many ways nicer then TLs, they are just not as sporty or as quick, but they have bigger engines with more torque, are slightly larger, have nicer interiors with real wood and everything comes standard, they are also fwd and get decent gas mileage so that is something else to consider living in wintery climate. They are extremely well built and dead reliable.

You may want to check out some older Infiniti models like the I35 which were fwd v6 with nicer interiors and can be had cheap.

All cars have potential serious expensive issues even Lexus vehicles, the older LS and especially the older GS have plenty of them like low/rough idle, door lock actuator failures, premature lower ball joint failures, starter failure, moisture in headlights, etc. These are no extended warranties for these issues/defects either and some issues can be dangerous and costs alot of money to repair like the lower ball joint issue with GS300/400. Make sure you research the potential problems and look out for them in your purchase, just because it is a Lexus does not mean it will be trouble free.

Good luck with your car shopping and don't rush and buy something you might regret or might not be happy with as something will eventually turn up.

LexFather

McKrevice , avoid a used 99-04 TL/CL like the plauge...
fwiw Udel, if he thinks the ES is ghey, he probably thinks Acura as a whole is the same.

McKrevice

iTrader: (1)

I don't like the looks of the ES. My friend has one and it is smooth, just would rather have any other Lexus than that one.

I test drove a 1998 Toyota Avalon today. Desert Sand (sucks) with 33,000 original miles that some old lady owned. XLS, every option. The dealership wants 10k for it. Too bad it's not black/silver or I might have bought it. Other than that, it was a damn nice car.

Ah well, back to the drawing board looking for a Lexota.

UDel

You should probrably reread his post because if you do you will see where he clearly says he wanted a newer TL but could not afford one or thought they were too much, he said he liked the older TLs too but was worried about transmission issues. Why would you think just because he thinks a ES is ghey that he would think all Acuras are gay? Acura does not build any cars like a ES. Acuras vehicles are very different from a Lexus ES. The TL may just share a similiar drivetrain layout (fwd v6)but that is where it pretty much ends. ES is a soft riding entry level luxury car and not the least bit sporty or involving/fun to drive. The TL is a sports luxury sedan that is rarely compared with an ES. The TL is usaully compared with a 3 series, G35, IS350, CTS and can be had with a 6 speed manual plus a high performance type S version. Last year there was a track race where it was confirmed a TL type S beat both the IS350 and G35 sedan several times even though they were rwd with more hp and in a straight line outaccelerate the TL, a ES would never come close to beating those higher spec cars like a TL did.

Maybe it is better he does not want a used ES or thinks they are ghey because older ES had major engine sludge problems/issues that were worse then the TL tranny problems and the new ES350s have been having tons of issues including engine/transmition issues as well as complaints of poor quality/cheaper materials. If anything I would think if he thought a ES was ghey he would think Avalons are ghey because they are much more similiar to each other then a TL would be.

LexFather

I cannot take your posts serious if you think Acuras aren't Hondas version of ESs, some are worse
CSX-Civic
TSX-Euro Accord
TL-Accord platform
RL-Accord platform
MDX-Odyessy platform
RDX-I don't know

While Lexus has cars that share with Toyota, they have cars that don't. Acuras are all gussied up Accords pretty much. Like the ES is a gussied up Camry.

TL and ES sell in similar amounts, are similar in size and while the TL is sportier, its not a G35 or IS.

Thanks for bringing out one track race with a professional driver. Everywhere else, in every other single review, the TL finished behind both.

LexFather

Avalon is a good buy. Avalons are based on Camrys, stretched for more room. The 1998 model was only 50 lbs heavier but had much more room! Great used buy. 33k miles, owned by an old lady is a gem. I bought my first GS 400 with 12k miles also owned by an old lady who basically drove to church and back (car in great condition, price was like new lol)

UDel

I can't take your posts seriously if you think Acuras are just Hondas version of ES's which makes no sense or all Acuras are just gussied up Accords which is completely wrong, I know from all your posts you immensly dislike Acura for some reason and have to go out of your way to critisize Acura and its cars every chance you get. Have you ever owned an Acura and had such a horrible experience owning one or did someone in an Acura steal a girl from you or tried to ruin your life. I just don't understand your disdain for Acura or its cars, it is not like they are crappy way overpriced cars that breakdown all the time or are horribly enginered. Generally if someone likes and appreciates Lexus they normally would like Acura and Infiniti too as they are similiar brands-upmarket Japanese luxury/performance brands that are generally known for reliability, high quality, and not being way overpriced or poorly built like many of its European competition. Each shares things with their larger less expensive brands and that is a very good thing and is a plus in my book especially considering the good track record Toyota and Hondas have had.

Just because a car shares a basic platform does not mean it is just the same as every car based on that platform. A 350Z is nothing like a M45 or FX45 even though they may share a basic platform. A Acura RL/TL is not just a gussied up Accord, they are totally different cars inside and out, their is a big difference between the two if you drive and own them even though they may share some things and that is why Accords are never compared with TLs and RLs. A Acura MDX is not just a gussied up Pilot or Accord like you say but a totally different vehicle that may share the same basic platform. I can't believe think just because a car shares a basic platform that it is pretty much the same or just gussied and can't be different. So an Audi A6 is just a gussied up Volkswagen Passat? If Acuras were just gussied up Accords then nobody would spend the extra money on them just like nobody would spend the extra money on a Lexus ES or RX if they were just gussied up Camry's. Not all luxury buyers want rwd nor do they want v8s but do want higher hp, nicer interiors, nicer looks, etc so there is a market for fwd v6 luxury cars which is why they sell so well.

Okay the TL and ES sell in similiar numbers, so what, so do many other cars which are nothing alike. Sure the TL is not an IS or G35 but then a IS is not a G35 either, all are totally different cars. IS is small, IS250 is way underpowered, puny rear seat, not that sporty or fun/rewarding to drive even though it happens to be rwd and much more luxury then sport, nice dash layout. G35 is a sport sedan first and foremost and not much of a luxury car, cheap interior, is roomy and more the size of a 5 series. TL is a sports sedan as well as a decent luxury car and has much more room then an IS with decent rear leg room, nice dashlayout,not quite as rewarding to drive as a G35, sizewise near a 5 series. All have v6 but have different layouts. To even get the IS to compare power wise to a base TL/G35 you have to get an expensive optional engine which is not that popular and you cannot get a manual with the more powerful engine.

The TL does not finish behind the IS and GS in every review and most of those reviewers don't take the cars on a track which is where a true test of a sports sedan would be done. When the IS is optioned with the 3.5 liter the IS350 has put up some impressive acceleration numbers in magazines but nobody is gushing over it being some great sports sedan and unseating the 3 series in fun to drive/handling/sports sedan category and it is not head and tails better then a TL type S. Just because it or any car is rwd does not automatically mean it is a great sports sedan and something that will always be better then a highly tuned engineered fwd or awd sports sedan.

The Legend was always on its own US Acura platform not shared with any Honda platfroms and the first RL had its own platform and they had their own 6 cylinders too. The current 05+ RL is the only RL that shares an Accord platform but the RL has its own awd drivetrain and shares little with the accord aside from the platform. The NSX had its own mid engine platform, engine, and did not share anything with US Hondas. The next NSX will be on its own platform and have its own engine and transmission not shared with any US Hondas. Acuras are not just gussied up accords that share everything, they are different. You can only kind of say that about the Euro Accord and TSX but then again Toyota did the same thing with the Altezza and Lexus IS.

mmarshall

Since you already have a Mustang as a sporting car to have fun with (and I agree that is a great blue paint job) , go with the LS400....a great car to simply RELAX in and enjoy the ride. If you want a Lexus product that will do well on slick roads and can't swing the price of a newer IS250 AWD or GS300 AWD, check out an RX.

LexFather

No one has to criticize Acura. Hyundai doesn't even have to. Your defense of the brand knows no bounds as you refuse to admit any short comings, and they have TONS of them. Guess what, LExus has short-comings. I am not BLIND to Lexus. The ES/RX are not fun to drive. I wouldn't recommend 2007 ESs either. The IS has a very cramped rear seat. The GS 460 is missing 80hp. etc etc etc


You have no idea that the IS 200 debuted in Europe the same time as the Toyota Altezza. The IS 200 never had a weak 4 cylinder, never was one offered. So the IS still had the luxury car basic, RWD and 6 cylinders.

Why? B/C Lexus officials researched showed I-4 and luxury car= hahahahha.

Now you bring up the NSX? Surely one of the best cars ever built. You bring up a discontinued car to defend your point? The NSX is superb, no doubt. It also lost reportedly 800 million dollars. No one buys expensive Hondas or Acuras.

I know Acuras are good cars. You ONLY RESPOND to the posts of mine you disagree with. I'm the same guy that started a huge thread saying the 04+ TL is a superb car still. If you LOOK in the TL vs IS vs G35 thread where the TL won, I DEFENDED the TL.

Bottom line, I would NEVER EVER recommned the 99-04 TL/CL to anyone. The risk of a tranny failure is much to great.

Hell ask Rominl and the other members here who experienced it first hand.

mmarshall

Consumer Reports, indeed, has verified a high trouble rate for TL automatic transmissions from 99-03......starting 04, they were reliable again.

Perfection

Kinda off topic... but most of us voted for 1SICKLEX as president in 2012.

UDel

If I don't like a car or brand I will be critical of it whether it is an Acura, Lexus, BMW, Ferrari, etc. I have pointed out Acura shortcomings before as well as Lexus shortcomings. I am pretty rough on Acura especially some of their current decisions and designs on Acura websites but usaully end up defending them more on ClubLexus. I know Acura has shortcomings but I still think they build great cars and are worthy of their competition and worthy of a luxury nameplate, they don't just build gussied up Accords, if they did I would not have much interest in them at all.

Acura was extremely stupid in not updating the NSX after 1997 and essentially allowing the competition to surpass it and for people to lose interest. It should have had a v8, turbo v6, or v10 option by now. Another bonehead move from Acura was switching the NSX replacement to a front engine design instead of mid, it completely killed the heritage of the car and destroyed its uniqueness and what made it legendary. I am sure the only reason they did that was to have a front engine rwd platform that could be shared with models below it but Honda has enough money to have a midengine platform for the NSX and a front engined rwd platform for other cars. I heavily critisized that ASC NSX replacement concept and that hideous goofy looking sedan concept they came out with a few years ago. The first RL was a big dissapointment and downturn from the stellar Acura Legend and they were stupid to change the name as the Legend had alot of respect and admiration. They went the wrong direction with the original RL but did heavily improve it with the current RL.

I never thought Acura needed a v8 in the past because their v6s were excellent and not far behind the v8 competition and even surpased some. The competitions v8 were really not pushing the hp envelope so v8 and rwd were not that important at the time. The 230hp v6 fwd Legend compared pretty well to the 250hp Lexus LS, BMW 5/7 series, and first gen 220hp GS300 which did not have a 8 cylinder option. These days I will admit Acura needs something more then a highly tuned NA v6 as there is a hp race going on with 350+ hp v8s and 400+hp v10/v12 and I hope Acura is stepping it up for the next RL to offer more engine options. They do have a v10 coming in the new NSX which will adress the power issues, hopefully they share it with other models. I was not happy with the new RL refresh and expressed it on a few sites, but I need to see it in person and hear how it drives and drive it myself for final judgement. I think they should have just spent the money on the RL replacement instead on a end of cycle facelift with a goofy grille that does not improve anything aside from the interior upgrades and bump in hp. If the new TSX only has a 201 hp 4 cylinder and no options later for a turbo powerplant or SHAWD then you will hear me complaining alot about that. Acura should have a larger v8 rwd car then the RL to compete with the LS, S class, 7 series, and a v8 rwd coupe and I would be disspointed if they are not working on one but right now they still have very good cars that compete well. The RL should get a rwd platform to shut critics up about sharing with the Accord. If the new TL turns out to be a dissapointment you will hear it first from me critisizing it.

If someone at Acura asked me today what Acura should have to improve the brand right now, the first thing out of my mouth would be optional v8s/v10s, rwd platform, more exotic luxury options like exotic woods, etc, large luxury sedan,rwd sports cars, real mid engine NSX replacement much like what you say but I still want them to do what they are doing now and offer the the accord based MDX, TL, TSX they have now because they are great cars and don't need to completely change and are offered at good prices. I don't just discount Acura or Acura cars as a luxury brand and maker of luxury car just because they don't have v8s/v10 and rwd sedans right now, that is why I defend them many times. It would be nice to have some more expensive options and they should have them soon.

From reading your posts we both generally like 99% of the same cars and share the same views and interests on brands and cars. It is just Acura and to a lesser extent Infiniti that we usaully disagree on things.

McKrevice

iTrader: (1)

haha, I forgot I had an account here. I am picking up a GS400 tomorrow....and have been trolling the 2nd gen GS forum looking at various threads for the past few months deciding on whether I should or should not buy a GS400....but I like this one. So I'll probably be posting here more now.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Congratulations. I think you made a good choice. I had a 99 LS400 that I thought was a great car. Loved everything about it except the typical light Lexus steering feel and feedback and the lack of trunk space due to the gas tank. I now have a used 03 GS430 and am much happier with the car. The steering is still nowhere near like my previous BMWs, but it has a slightly better feel too me than my LS did. Interior space is a wash as both are roomy enough for me. Trunk space is much larger in the GS as there is no gas tank taking up half the trunk. Over all the car fits me much better. There are a few things I miss about my 99 LS, like the auto dimming tilt side mirrors, and the motorized headrests. Other than that though, I like everything else about the GS.