mmarshall

No offense to you if you own a new ES, but look at and drive an older ES330 and then see if you like the new one as much. I thought the new one was a disappointment in several ways.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Exactly, even though I never impressed by RX and ES. But the last Gen ES was the best, my boss has one right now.

ES350Bob

Well, I'll see you and raise you by 2

I owned 2 ES300. no rattles at all ever, no engine noise, no wind noise, no vibration, no slipping transmissions and so QUIET.

Missed the 330 waited till 350 and what a horrid experience those 2 ES350 were. Worst car experiences in my entire life, had all of the above and then some....

BTW...I now know when MMarshall mentions things like metal as to fit and finish in a review pay attention, he isn't kidding.

LexBob2

I'm not sure if they are un-Lexus like or not, but I'm thinking Lexus likes the two of them.

In '07 the two models accounted for 186,207 sales, which is 57% of all Lexus sales for the year. They certainly are their bread and butter models, and generate a lot of sales and profits for the brand.

VVT-i

Yeah, they are a bunch of re badge Camry called Lexus running around... Please do not bow gracefully from this thread,but keep it civilize as the higher class car owner as yourself would do....

Back on topic, I think Toyota/Lexus knows about this problem and separated Lexus from Toyota line up by introduced the Lexus brand in Japan. In the past 18 years one thing Lexus doing well is set the benchmark for another car manufacturer to follow such as customer services, car wash, waiting lounge, loaner cars, pick up and drop off, and so on ....

If you compare Lexus or another car manufacturer to the hotel chain, I think Lexus is the Four Season Hotel. Yes, the room at the Holiday Inn looks the same compare to the Four Season,but the level of customer services is incomparable. That's why Lexus sell the ton of Camry base ES and RX all day long.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

totally agree.... had so many es300/330 as loaners and they were all great. the new es350, what is that.......

UDel

The ES and RX are both Lexus highest selling and most successful models in their lineup so I would not say they are un Lexus like, they are extremely successful and account for over half of all Lexus sales, if it was not for those two models Lexus sales numbers would not be that impressive and would be below the competitions total sales. Not everybody wants rwd luxury cars with v8s and there is a bigger market for lower priced fwd v6 lux cars as you can see from the numbers sold.

Fwd v6 luxury cars/vehicles get better fuel economy, generally have more rear seat room, lighter, are much better/safer in winter/slippery conditions, and cost less to buy and own, they have their market and customers who prefer this layout. The previous ES330 had a nice high quality interior just as nice if not nicer then the GS models. The ES350, that is a different story but then again the newer GS interior quality is not as good as the previous model and drawing complaints about the drop in quality.

Maybe some are saying the new ES relatively poor quality and numerous issues and problems it has been experiencing are the reasons it is un Lexus like but just because it is a Lexus does not mean it has to be rwd with a v8, when Lexus debuted it had 2 cars-one a rwd v8 sedan and the other was the es which was fwd with a v6, that is not going to change because the ES is too successful to mess with that formula.

There is nothing wrong with the ES and RX being based on the camry platform as long as they are done right and are worth spending the extra money on and it certainly does not mean they are un Lexus like unless of course they are poorly built, have a bunch of issues and are unreliable.

LexBob2

If the ES330/300 were so much better than the 350, why is the new model selling so much better than the previous ones ever did? This is in the face of greater competition in the segment and less than glowing reports from owners.

Lexus has sold around 150,000 ES350's since the launch, with double digit increases year on year. That's a lot of consumers deciding to buy the car. What's driving these purchases?

marshmallo

The FWD Camry platform is really depressing to drive for me.

Looking at the bright side, I think Lexus cares more about the ES/RX than the
GS, which seems to almost be an afterthought to them.

RXSF

i think both the ES and RX are lexus like. the ES350 looks a lot better than the ES330, but i had to agree in interior materials.

LexFather

Some more corrections. The 1st gen IS had its own platform. The 2nd gen GS did NOT share its platform with the Crown.

I am not sure of the 3rd gen but it seems very likely. We know the IS today is based off teh GS.

Not even close.

LexFather

Having a ES had a RX, I can tell you they are Lexus BUT like all FWD platformed shared cars, and most cars under the 40k price point, they simply do not have the build and solidity of the next level up. They do REMARKABLE for the price and are perfect for most people.

It has always been an immediate difference to me as soon as I close the door and sit in the seat and drive off in a FWD ES/RX. It feels very good but when you do the same in a GS or LS or GX, you can feel the difference in build and I don't care what ANYONE says, in REGULAR DAILY driving, you can feel the difference in RWD vs FWD, it is not just about the track.

Lexus could share no parts with Toyota and people will ALWAYS KNOCK IT as being TOYOTAS. It used to bug me but now, it just shows their ignorance to the brand or ignorance for not wanting to know more about the brand.

ES350Bob

He has even Consumer Reports backing up his view.

You ask about sales volume which is unreliable as to whether or not a car is reliable unless and until it's "quality" performance is also established.

The better question seems to be how did the ES350 go from predicted tops in reliability down to real world input resulting in average in 1 year time frame even according to Consumer Reports?

And the answer is the same as what explains it's sales volume, prior models garnering good ratings and an assumption the ES350 would be the same, so it got a free pass. Thousands upon thousands of 300 and 330 owners having trumpeted the merit of the ES to their friends, family and business associates <--word of mouth advertising and resulting sales, myself included for a full decade whenever asked about Lexus, but many ended up and will continue to be shocked at the quality decline just like Consumer Reports ended up shocked at the real world offering of the ES350/Camry, other. For CR, so much so they completely changed how they report on Toyota/Lexus and announced it as the reason they will no longer offer initial model ratings based on history.

The ES350 is nothing like the ES300, cannot hold a candle to it. While it is possible there are other cars manufactured over the years that are similar in real world results and I just did not pay attention, I personally have never known of another model vehicle that has so many issues, so many different types of problems that crop up in one model.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Er, maybe I'm wrong, but do you mean motors on the front wheels to produce the effect since the underlying LS is a RWD platform to start?

I actually thought the LS had a 'real' mechanical AWD system with center diff., but haven't looked into it.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Sorry to hear about your ES experience. Do you have an ES350 now (sounds like you don't)? And if not, what do you drive now?