What makes the ES and RX unLexus-Like?
03-01-08, 06:40 AM
#31
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03-01-08, 06:47 AM
#32
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If the ES330/300 were so much better than the 350, why is the new model selling so much better than the previous ones ever did? This is in the face of greater competition in the segment and less than glowing reports from owners.
Lexus has sold around 150,000 ES350's since the launch, with double digit increases year on year. That's a lot of consumers deciding to buy the car. What's driving these purchases?
Lexus has sold around 150,000 ES350's since the launch, with double digit increases year on year. That's a lot of consumers deciding to buy the car. What's driving these purchases?
And I don't know how widespread the problems with ES350s are, but if they're significant, then maybe all those buyers won't be quite so loyal when they come to trade in.
About the RX - about the only thing I don't like is the silver-plastic trim around the center stack. Other than that, the RX to me is a home run.
03-01-08, 06:56 AM
#33
Lexus Champion
I have my eye on the Genesis though wish I did not as I really don't need a new car and will wait to see what MMarshall reports and believe it or not also what Lexus #1 fan 1sick says about it as his loaner review of ES was very unsick like
in that he noticed issues he would not want....combined with me testing out and comparing findings before I plunk $$$ down on a new car I really do not need.
03-01-08, 07:24 AM
#34
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Currently I am driving one of those...mediocre...braking, though completely issue free Accords
I have my eye on the Genesis though wish I did not as I really don't need a new car and will wait to see what MMarshall reports and believe it or not also what Lexus #1 fan 1sick says about it as his loaner review of ES was very unsick like in that he noticed issues he would not want....combined with me testing out and comparing findings before I plunk $$$ down on a new car I really do not need.
I have my eye on the Genesis though wish I did not as I really don't need a new car and will wait to see what MMarshall reports and believe it or not also what Lexus #1 fan 1sick says about it as his loaner review of ES was very unsick like
in that he noticed issues he would not want....combined with me testing out and comparing findings before I plunk $$$ down on a new car I really do not need.As far as the Genesis - I'd wait until at least the first year's production is done.
03-01-08, 08:03 AM
#35
Lexus Champion
lol. Is it the new style Accord you have? I know this is off topic, but you should write a review (in a new thread) of it. Especially comparing it to your ES350 (not ranting on the ES problems but just features, etc.).
As far as the Genesis - I'd wait until at least the first year's production is done.
As far as the Genesis - I'd wait until at least the first year's production is done.
As for comparo, I'll leave that sort of thing up to others, for me, I'm easy to please, quiet and dependable on top of initial appeal is all it takes. I'd come off looking like ranting because the important things to me were/are what is the difference.
03-01-08, 08:10 AM
#36
Lexus Champion
Well, I'd say the new one does look better than the frumpy ES330. What was it, 'value innovation' or something that Lexus has talked about? So I think with the ES350 people think they're getting a lot for the money (yes, for car nuts like us we can see how Lexus has cheaped out here and there) especially compared to the incredibly ugly and cheap Camry interior. I think Toyota and Lexus are succeeding in reducing their manufacturing costs, but it's certainly not in a way customers won't notice.
And I don't know how widespread the problems with ES350s are, but if they're significant, then maybe all those buyers won't be quite so loyal when they come to trade in.
About the RX - about the only thing I don't like is the silver-plastic trim around the center stack. Other than that, the RX to me is a home run.
And I don't know how widespread the problems with ES350s are, but if they're significant, then maybe all those buyers won't be quite so loyal when they come to trade in.
About the RX - about the only thing I don't like is the silver-plastic trim around the center stack. Other than that, the RX to me is a home run.
So it's not the end of the ES as we know it. Hopefully they'll correct issues as needed. I've had none in nearly two years of ownership, and hope others with issues get some satisfaction.
03-01-08, 09:37 AM
#37
hmmm i do think that es and rx are lexus like, and its not because we have both of them, but mostly because they are really great cars. our 2001 es has to be the best we have dealt with. No issues so quiet, and no transmission problems like those with the es 350's and some es 330's. The rx is also a very nice car that i think it worthy of the lexus name, but needs to have a few little tweaks to improve it, and to the fwd thing, believe me, even though driving a rwd car in the snow isn't impossible, fwd is a lot easier. and honestly, a very little of the people who buy lexus can tell rwd from fwd so i can't really see why it would effect why it would be lexus like or not, remeber, it is mostly the elderly who buy these two cars, from what i have seen
03-01-08, 11:54 AM
#38
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Well, I'd say the new one does look better than the frumpy ES330. What was it, 'value innovation' or something that Lexus has talked about? So I think with the ES350 people think they're getting a lot for the money (yes, for car nuts like us we can see how Lexus has cheaped out here and there) especially compared to the incredibly ugly and cheap Camry interior. I think Toyota and Lexus are succeeding in reducing their manufacturing costs, but it's certainly not in a way customers won't notice.
Value Innovation is not about cutting costs in terms of quality and interiors; it's about cutting costs on factory-level, manufacturing scale. It's about using all-new, state-of-the-art manufacturing and production equipment and technology to reduce costs AND improve quality at the same time. For example, most Toyota engines today are produced using new manufacturing equipment that has dramatically reduced the cost of making engines *and* has reduced engine defects at the same time.
ALL future vehicles from Toyota will be part of the VI program. One real example of VI right now is with the new Corolla; it's the first Toyota to be produced using a laser-guided alignment system for exterior and interior panels. That is a big reason why the panel gaps are extremely tight on the new Corolla. This new laser system should be used on all future Toyota models. This system is part of the VI program. I also have heard that the next-gen RX will be assembled using this laser-guided system.
03-01-08, 05:38 PM
#39
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I think both RX and ES pretty much represent what Lexus is all about: Quietness and smothness. I have been in my friends' parents' RX's several times, the immidiate impression I had was that the car was extremely smooth and quiet. Compare that to Jeep Liberty. You will have the feeling you are riding in a cart when you are in a Liberty. And I have ES350, and I chose that car for a reason. I also testdrove 3-series, A4, CTS and IS, and ES was the most comfortable car of them all. It's seriously better than my dad's S550.
03-01-08, 07:27 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
As far as the VI program goes, the new Highlander does seem to be a notch above some other new Toyotas in overall build quality. In fact, IMO, it outdoes the new Sequoia (see my reviews of both), which actually follows it. I was very unimpressed with the new Sequoia.
03-02-08, 09:35 AM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I see a lot of discussion about the ES350 but very little, if any at all, about the RX350. How does the RX350 get the un-Lexus-like status from many owners and enthusiasts? Or is it the exact same deal as with the ES350?
03-02-08, 09:52 AM
#43
Lexus Champion
You might want to also ask that question on the RX forum and get input from SUV/crossover owners. Not sure if I agree with or understand the "un-Lexus like" thing.
03-02-08, 10:14 AM
#45
Well, this is the way I see it when it come to the ES. Lets say if you are chosing from the Lexus cars line-up, so there are you LS, GS, IS and ES. Lets say the money is not an issue to you at all. Well, you could chose LS if you like ultra luxury, you can chose the GS if you like a little sport and willing to trade some luxury, and of course you can get the IS if you want as much sport as possible while still having some luxury. Heck, if I was in such situation, I'd get all three. But then you have the ES, and the only good reason to get one is if you can't afford the LS. Jeremy Crarkson would probably say - "Nothing says a man has failed in life quite like the ES badge on the back of his Lexus".
As far as the RX, I simply fail to see the purpose of it, or any other "cute ute". It does not offer anything that a sedan doesn't offer, besides maybe the higher point of view, but it compromises on so many other things that I just don't understand why people even buy it.
As far as the RX, I simply fail to see the purpose of it, or any other "cute ute". It does not offer anything that a sedan doesn't offer, besides maybe the higher point of view, but it compromises on so many other things that I just don't understand why people even buy it.
Last edited by Och; 03-02-08 at 08:03 PM.