INHOCJP

Agree 100%.

As long as Hyundai (or any other manufacturer for that matter) produces quality cars at competitve prices, I highly doubt consumers will be turned off by a company's management practices.

RON430

I don't think most buyers will know, or care.

TRDFantasy

It's really tough to say whether Hyundai's management practices will stop people from buying their products. In a direct sense it will not stop them. But indirectly, Hyundai's management practices are causing some problems which could affect a person's decision to buy a Hyundai such as poor dealer service and higher prices that Korean management is pushing.

Again it's tough to say exactly if sales are being affected by Hyundai's management practices, but what we do know is that Hyundai sales are down significantly so far YTD in the US. This point keeps being brought up, yet it's interesting how nobody has an explanation as to why this is happening.

If Hyundai's management style really is successful and effective, then why are sales down in the US? Why have US sales been stagnant for the past 2 years now? Specifically, why are Hyundai's retail sales in the US struggling?

Exactly. Finally someone gets the point of the article and the whole point of this topic.

This has nothing to do with US management practices vs. management practices of other countries and cultures. This is specifically about Hyundai's management culture and the problems it's causing now, as well as the potential for big problems in the future.

With the top management ignoring US management, they in many ways are oblivious to market changes and oblivious to the problems that the brand has in the US.

It might have worked for a while, but it's certainly causing problems right now, as this article points out.

LexBob2

"Again it's tough to say exactly if sales are being affected by Hyundai's management practices, but what we do know is that Hyundai sales are down significantly so far YTD in the US. This point keeps being brought up, yet it's interesting how nobody has an explanation as to why this is happening"

Personally, I like Hyundai's current offerings. They're good looking, great warranties and a lot of features for the money - Although their prices across the board are creeping up, and not quite the value they used to be.

It does surprise me though, that none of their models sell all that well vs. the direct competition (Sonata/Accord/Camry, Tucson/RAV4/CRV, Azera/Avalon/ Lucerne etc.). You'd think they'd do better, all of them have been on the market long enough.

On the other hand, Hyundai seems to be staying the course and bringing out new vehicles. Seems like they're in it for the long haul. Time will tell I guess.

TRDFantasy

I also like most of Hyundai's products (contary to assumptions some people here are making about me). I like Hyundai's products primarily because of the VALUE they offer.

Problem is, I don't like what Hyundai is doing with raising prices. Hyundai's newest vehicles, the Veracruz is an example, and if the pricing for the Genesis is accurate (from the other thread) then it will be another example. The price of the Veracruz puts it in direct competition with major and established competition in the segment.

I liked that Hyundai was offering great value with great products for thousands less than any competition. Now Hyundai is raising their prices making them closer on par to the competition.

The only reason I like Hyundai is because of the value offered. If Hyundai prices go up to be the same as the competition, then Hyundai's products no longer seem that appealing. IMHO apart from value Hyundai offers nothing else over the competition.

I don't know whether or not this explains Hyundai's struggling sales in the US right now, but it's certainly possible. With sales down and the use of heavy incentives going up, something is definitely going on with Hyundai in the US.

Hyundai had a product blitz in the past 2 years here in the US. Most of their lineup is either new or redesigned right now. This makes their struggling sales and increased incentives even more perplexing. Their vehicles are competitive with the competition, yet sales are struggling. Nobody seems to have a complete explanation or answer why this is happening. Based on this, I have a bad feeling that Hyundai will struggle even more since their product blitz has slowed down and most of their lineup will not be changed or redesigned for a few years.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I personally couldn't care less about Hyundai's or anyone elses management policies, as long as they are lawful and socially acceptable. However, it is well known that Korea, China, as well as many other countries;

1) Are often guilty of using child labor.
2) Mistreat their workers.
3) Have little respect for human rights.
4) Have little respect for patents and copyrights.

I don't have any proof that Hyundai is guilty of any of those practices, but then how do you explain the pricetag on the Genesis? Comparable to LS460 for half the price? How could they do it? Whos to say they didn't design it (or rather ripped off other peoples design) using pirated copy of Photoshop and whatnot, and whos to say many of its parts arent being manufacturer in sweatshops with unhuman conditions. I strongly believe so, and have zero respect for Hyundai.

jwong77

Basically what I learned from this article is not to work for Huyndai. Actually kind of turns me off from working with any Korean based business. I'm not much for the being treated like I can be let go at any second.

As for they're cars, I can't help but of think of the Huyndai Excel anytime someone mentions them. I know this is no longer the case with the Genesis and the Sonata, but I see so many of these cheap Kia Spectras and Huyndai's around with they're small little tires and I can't help but to think of them as the maker of the Huyndai Excel.

ES350Bob

Well, I view an executive as an employee and on the employee treatment you may be right about how Toyota treats executives but they have much room for improvement where their workers are concerned.

(((In his final month at the Toyota car plant, he had logged more than 106 hours overtime, most of it unpaid. He died from sudden heart failure at just 30 years old.

"Until now, all this unpaid work has contributed to Toyota's 2 trillion yen ($18 billion) profit. As Toyota continues to grow, I hope it will return some of it to its workers. That would make it a true global leader," she said.))

http://www.reuters.com/article/world...0071205?rpc=92

mmarshall

Remember, though, that Hyundai's low prices of the past were also combined with low quality. To a large extent, you got what you paid for. It is true that Hyundai/Kia prices have come up some in recent years, but their quality has come up a lot MORE....so you are paying a little more for a lot more quality....and warranty. Dollar for dollar, they are now some of the best values on the market.

tofu_house

iTrader: (2)

I find this a bit insulting seeing as how I am Korean.

You've obviously never visited the country.

No there is no use of child labor. In fact, child labors laws are exactly as they would be here. Most of the kids that DO WORK, work in family owned businesses (i.e., restaurants, farms, etc.). Have you never helped out your parents? I sure have.

Mistreat their workers in what way? If you have no idea, then don't state it. I find this statement absurd seeing as how you have NO EVIDENCE. Authoritarian type management is HARDLY mistreating their workers. Our culture is based off this form of leadership. We've been around for 5000 years. It's worked out so far.

Have little respect for human rights? Are you talking about South Korea or North Korea. North Korea I could understand. South. Not so much. In fact, I'd say the US has experienced and violated more human rights in the past couple hundred years than Korea has in the past 5000. We were, in fact, victims of slavery for a long time by the Japanese.

LexBob2

Here is some '07 sales info on key Hyundai models and their direct competition. Just seems strange they don't sell better when they seem to offer as much or more than the competition, plus rebates on most models:

Some sales results from '07:
145,568 Sonata
473,108 Camry
392,321 Accord

21,948 Azera
82,923 Lucerne
82,867 ES350
72,945 Avalon

41,476 Tucson
319,160 CRV
172,752 RAV4

ElitistK

iTrader: (4)

holy batman offtopic much? IBTL.

TRDFantasy is trying to say that Hyundai has too much faith in profit from mass production and mass promotion. This faith is obsolete.

And right now, no one cares about Hyundai's corporate culture because Hyundai is not integrating its customers as apart of its culture. If they do plan on position themselves in our mind, then they might be in a bit of trouble with their current situation.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Sure, everything is peachy at Hyundai.

http://www.laborrightsnow.org/southkorea.html

LRN Backs Korean Workers ILO Complaint




Labor Rights Now strongly backed a complaint to the International Labor Organization detailing worker rights violations in South Korea. The Korean government has criminalized unions by accusing irregular workers seeking labor representation of "obstruction of business." This has led to the jailing of union leaders.

The Korean Metalworkers' Federation filed the ILO complaint along with the Korean Confederation of Trade Unions and the International Metalworkers Federation (IMF). The Korean government's failure to protect and enforce worker rights is documented in the charge, including rights' violations occurring at Hyundai Motors plants in Ulsan, Asan, and Jeonju, as well as at Hynix/Magnachip, Kiryung Electronics, and KM&I.

"Korean workers years ago did battle with the military government over worker rights abuses and, sadly, subsequent governments don't seem to understand that the repression of workers and unions has no place in a democracy," said Labor Rights Now President Don Stillman.

The IMF News, a publication of the International Metalworkers' Federation, said the compaint details how precarious workers in disguised employment relationships who try to form and join unions are subject to dismissal. Employers also use compensation suits to threaten union members into withdrawing from the union and to punish those who do not.

The pattern at Hyundai Motors Corporation is:

1. Core union activists are dismissed;
2. They seek reinstatement and often return to the factory to meet with the union;
3. The employer seeks an court injunction to keep the dismissed workers away, even when labor relations authorities have found the dismissals to be illegal;
4. The company hires security guards who physically assault dismissed workers trying to enter the factory.

"We urge the immediate release of Choi Byeong-seung, leader of the Ulsan Irregular Workers' Union," Stillman said. The Labor Rights Now president also said American workers expected the Korean government to release Kwon Sujeong, Oh Ji Hwan, and Kim Jun-Gyo—all union officials at Hyundai Motors who were jailed in July, 2006.

"American workers strongly support the KMWF, the KCTU, and the IMF on this complaint and hope that the International Labor Organization will fully investigate the violations of the rights to freedom of association and collective bargaining in the breach of ILO Conventions 87 and 98," Stillman stated.

tofu_house

iTrader: (2)

I guess it's easy to point fingers when it's not your own country.

“Wal-Mart workers have virtually no chance to organize because they’re up against unfair US labor laws and a giant company that will do just about anything to keep unions out,” said Carol Pier, senior researcher on labor rights and trade for Human Rights Watch. “That one-two punch devastates workers’ right to form and join unions.”

As the world’s largest company, Wal-Mart’s conduct is especially troubling. Wal-Mart had $351.14 billion in revenue and $11.3 billion in profits in the fiscal year ending January 2007. It is the largest private US employer, with more than 1.3 million US workers and close to 4,000 stores nationwide. None of those workers is represented by a union. Human Rights Watch found that this is no accident.

Human Rights Watch’s investigation revealed that, in most cases, Wal-Mart begins to indoctrinate workers and managers to oppose unions from the moment they are hired. Managers receive explicit instructions on keeping out unions, many of which are found in the company’s “Manager’s Toolbox,” a self-described guide to managers on “how to remain union free in the event union organizers choose your facility as their next target.”

http://workinglife.typepad.com/daily...ts_labor_.html

Or how about this?

Population: 295,000,000 / Capital: Washington / ILO Core Conventions Ratified: 105 - 182

Two more state governments removed the right of public employees to bargain collectively during the year, while a raft of decisions by the labour relations board further undermined trade union rights. At New York University teaching assistants were denied collective bargaining rights, two ballet dancers lost their jobs as a result of their union activities, and in a typical example of employer led anti-union campaigns, the management at an abrasives factory succeeded in bringing about the decertification of their workers' union.
TRADE UNION RIGHTS IN LAW
Many excluded

The National Labour Relations Act (NLRA) is the primary federal labour law in the United States, and is binding on the states. The NLRA guarantees the right of freedom of association, the right to bargain collectively, and the right to join trade unions to private sector employees. However, in addition to excluding public sector workers, the statute excludes many categories of private sector employees from its scope, including agricultural and domestic workers, supervisors, and independent contractors. In 2002, the U.S. General Accounting Office found that some 25 million private civilian workers, as well as 6.9 million federal, state and local government employees, did not have the right under any law to negotiate their wages, hours or employment terms. Since then, even more workers have been denied coverage.

http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=14886

Granted, it's a survey from 2006 but how much could change in a year?

You would think that the US could get it right.

But anyway, let's get back on topic. GO HYUNDAI.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Brian, Im not pointing fingers because its not my country, I'm pointing fingers because I believe that Hyundai is what you call "an evil corporation". As well as Wallmart, and others like them. I'm just glad that I am fortunate enough not having to work for them, and I am glad that there are unions that wont allow every corporation to become like that.

However it surprises me how many people here, in the United States, are against Unions. We had a MTA Union strike here in NYC about two years back, and I was surprised to see that the general public opposed the strike, and how many people whined that MTA workers already have decent pay and benefits compared to others in similar positions. Instead of being jealous, people should remember our country's history and organize into Unions so they can stick it to corporate bastards.