C&D: Nissan GT-R Test - 11.5@124
03-23-08, 03:30 PM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Where have you been for the last 20 years? The Skyline is well-known and regarded as a very uninvolving drive, especially amongst the Japanese enthusiast scene. Even Tsuchiya at one point or another has alluded to the fact that the Skyline pretty much drives itself.
Granted, many automotive brands are moving towards this; Porsche obviously, Mitsubishi with their Evo (not to the extent of Porsche though), and even Ferrari (although less so than the others certainly). But the GT-R has always been a different level of technological interference and therefore a different level of uninvolving.
The GT-R numbers are impressive and they've achieved technological wizardry at a relatively low price. But numbers like 3.3s, 0.99g, 11.5@124, and even 7:38 are important only to the infamous crowd pervading message boards: internet specification drivers.
Granted, many automotive brands are moving towards this; Porsche obviously, Mitsubishi with their Evo (not to the extent of Porsche though), and even Ferrari (although less so than the others certainly). But the GT-R has always been a different level of technological interference and therefore a different level of uninvolving.
The GT-R numbers are impressive and they've achieved technological wizardry at a relatively low price. But numbers like 3.3s, 0.99g, 11.5@124, and even 7:38 are important only to the infamous crowd pervading message boards: internet specification drivers.
03-23-08, 03:52 PM
#18
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I don't find the term "uninvolving" very often at all in reference to the Skylines of the past or certainly not this latest GT-R. The C&D article surely doesn't suggest "uninvolving" (not a real word, I don't think) when it says, "It's still big, heavy, complex and expensive, but it's a holy spitfire at the drag strip and a joy to drive in every which way that a big, heavy, and complex car has no right to be unless it's way more expensive than the GT-R's advertised base price of $70,475". or "...when it comes time to reel in the fat derriére from the inevitable, entertaining, easily controlled powers slide."
Or this from CAR, "And my word, it’s been worth the six-year wait. This is one of the finest, most engaging and desirable cars we have driven in ages, a car with a seemingly endless range of ground-covering abilities that elevates it way beyond the common Nissan badge. It’s automotive heaven…"
Obviously the term "univolving" doesn't apply here.
It's hard, no, impossible to debate the GT-R vs. the LF-A simply because of the fact that the GT-R is here and the LF-A isn't. The Nissan is a proven machine with real data to go by and the Lexus isn't. Until the LF-A is let loose we may as well keep the comparisons on hold.
But given Lexus' ability to cram in all kinds of of driver-assist technology I think it's a sure thing that the LF-A will have it's own fair share of drive-by-wire characteristics.
Or this from CAR, "And my word, it’s been worth the six-year wait. This is one of the finest, most engaging and desirable cars we have driven in ages, a car with a seemingly endless range of ground-covering abilities that elevates it way beyond the common Nissan badge. It’s automotive heaven…"
Obviously the term "univolving" doesn't apply here.
It's hard, no, impossible to debate the GT-R vs. the LF-A simply because of the fact that the GT-R is here and the LF-A isn't. The Nissan is a proven machine with real data to go by and the Lexus isn't. Until the LF-A is let loose we may as well keep the comparisons on hold.
But given Lexus' ability to cram in all kinds of of driver-assist technology I think it's a sure thing that the LF-A will have it's own fair share of drive-by-wire characteristics.
Last edited by speedflex; 03-23-08 at 03:58 PM.
03-23-08, 04:26 PM
#19
Lexus Champion
Ahh... but you are all forgetting one thing... its a Nissan.
Took it for a test drive yesterday and I can see rattles developing in the first half year. The interior just looks cheap and feels cheap. But I suppose bang for your buck, pretty good, but these days I want more than that.
Took it for a test drive yesterday and I can see rattles developing in the first half year. The interior just looks cheap and feels cheap. But I suppose bang for your buck, pretty good, but these days I want more than that.
03-23-08, 04:34 PM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Right, obviously it doesn't, just because you say so based on a single C/D review.
Relax, and don't be so defensive - driving experience is a matter of opinion. Don't let me stop you drooling over numbers on a piece of paper, or imagining how great a car drives based on specs you read on the internet.
Last edited by gengar; 03-23-08 at 04:38 PM.
03-23-08, 05:38 PM
#22
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Then you're not looking hard enough. Of course the exact term may not be used; you have to actually, you know, read and comprehend the reviews. Autocar, for example, describes the GT-R driving experience as "detached" compared to the Turbo. Autoweek thought the steering was too soft (although opined that this made the GT-R easier to drive). Even Automobile Magazine, which always gushes about any car, suggested that the GT-R was on the fence of having "videogame-like ease of operation" - an interesting criticism given that many Japanese enthusiasts have opined that driving past GT-R iterations was like playing Gran Turismo. Best Motoring also pointed out that during track tests the traction control interferes during cornering and generates artificial understeer, which Mizuno said was actually intentional as a safety mechanism.
Right, obviously it doesn't, just because you say so based on a single C/D review. Relax, and don't be so defensive - driving experience is a matter of opinion. Don't let me stop you drooling over numbers on a piece of paper, or imagining how great a car drives based on specs you read on the internet.
Well we know it will, since SMG is where a lot of driver-assist grumbles began. OTOH, will it approach the GT-R? I doubt it. First off, it's simply not heavy enough.
Right, obviously it doesn't, just because you say so based on a single C/D review.
Relax, and don't be so defensive - driving experience is a matter of opinion. Don't let me stop you drooling over numbers on a piece of paper, or imagining how great a car drives based on specs you read on the internet.Well we know it will, since SMG is where a lot of driver-assist grumbles began. OTOH, will it approach the GT-R? I doubt it. First off, it's simply not heavy enough.
Get over yourself. I never once got condescending with you. And I'm the one being defensive. PLEASE!
Read my post and then read yours and gauge who's being civil and who isn't.
And for the record, I quoted two quick sources C&D and CAR. I could get tons more but I doubt it would make a difference.
Oh, and tell me when you actually drove either of these cars.
Last edited by speedflex; 03-23-08 at 05:44 PM.
03-23-08, 05:56 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
As I said, driving experience is a matter of opinion. Naturally, reviewers, as drivers themselves, will differ on it as well. As we see, some gush about it being the best thing ever. Others have issues with it being "uninvolving", just as they did with Skylines past. Both are likely justified in many ways. You don't have to be as defensive as to dismiss the existence of reviews with an opposing viewpoint in order to proclaim yours as the "obvious" correct choice.
Substitute "I" in place of "you" in the above quote, and then you have an equally relevant statement. Unless, of course, you're being condescending again and suggesting that for you it does not matter.
03-23-08, 06:31 PM
#24
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I'm still suspicious of C&D... they aren't the best drivers in the world, and so it rewards techno-widget-kings to help them launch. Interesting trap speed none-the-less; but it'll need other testers to confirm or deny.
And I've heard from a few R33/4 owning friends that it is a effectively a "cold" and "safe" drive on a road course. Some people like this, others like the car to come back and bite you when you screw up; forcing a learning behaviour.
How the new Skyline fares however, I'm still awaiting to get some seat time in one on a track; and then eagerly in the new stripper version; slicks on 4K lb car is not anywhere near durable tire life.
And I've heard from a few R33/4 owning friends that it is a effectively a "cold" and "safe" drive on a road course. Some people like this, others like the car to come back and bite you when you screw up; forcing a learning behaviour.
How the new Skyline fares however, I'm still awaiting to get some seat time in one on a track; and then eagerly in the new stripper version; slicks on 4K lb car is not anywhere near durable tire life.
03-23-08, 07:54 PM
#26
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A supercar that's reliable and also luxurious is unheard of in the supercar segment.
03-23-08, 08:35 PM
#28
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I agree though!
