ArmyofOne

IMHO, relaibility wise, honda and toyota are on the same level...however, customer service wise, toyota still has a LONG way to go to catch up to honda.


now having said that, when i did have problems with my fords, the dealers were always very nice and cooperative.

Fords, like all brands, depend entirely on how their owners maintain them. most carsm regardless of brand, will last years and years providing they are taken care of correctly from the get go.

mmarshall

This brings up an interesting point....and something that I have posted on before. Many car owners simply don't KNOW when they have problems. They assume that if the engine starts when you turn the key and if you get to your destination without the car stalling or catching fire, it's just fine......so they tell J.D. Power and other survey companies that nothing's wrong, when in reality it may have problems that are unaware of or just not attentive enough to see.


Case in point....I get occasional requests from friends and others to go check out a certain used car they may want to buy. They'll say "Marshall, I test-drove it and I couldn't find anything wrong with it" So, I go find the car, drive it myself.......and find warped brake rotors, body/paint problems, broken trim pieces, pulling/drifting from bad alignment, steering wheel shimmy, etc.... all kinds of things. Even new cars occasionally have problems......most common are steering/brake shimmies and body/trim scratches.

I found the Dodge Nitro, even as a brand-new car, to be a borderline piece of junk....along with the Jeep Compass, clearly one of the most disapponting modern vehicles I have reviewed. While it IS possible that the second Nitro owner you mentioned (the one with 0 problems) is correct, more likely it is a situation where he or she has a problem they simply don't recognize. I'd bet on the latter.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Very true and reminds me of my recent ride in a buddies Fusion. Mine was absolutely horrid as most here know, and he thought his was a gem. His A/C compressor makes a racket, his rear bumper is very loose and a clunk comes from the front end. All items that I experienced in mine except I chalked them up as problems while he thinks nothing of it and figures it is just part of the car ownership experience.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

A neighbor has a Dodge Neon (I'd guess it's about 7 or 8 years old). Has 170,000 miles on it.

He NEVER changes the oil unless he has to take it in for something else and they talk him into it (read, still almost never ). Recently he had some problem and took it in and they talked him into changing the oil and he told me they said it took them a while to clean the DIRT out of the engine!

Despite this horrible abuse, the car starts and runs perfectly as far as I can tell.

So not all Dodges are bad, LOL

mmarshall

What probably happened was that the seals and gaskets in the engine deteriorated long ago to almost nothing, engine tolerances were vastly increased from wear, and that the accumulated dirt and sludge in the engine is plugging up the areas where the seal and gasket material formerly were, preventing the oil from leaking out like a sieve, especially under pressure. The dirt/sludge, in other words, forms artificial gaskets and seals. Clean out the engine without replacing those seals, gaskets, and a possible ring/valve job, and the new oil will leak out faster than you can pour it in.

That sometimes happens with automatic transmissions, too, if they go years without fluid changes or flushes. The dirt in the transmission forms artificial seals that last until you DO clean the transmission and change the fluid. That's why if some transmissions are over a certain age/mileage with the original fluid, it's best to just let them be until they crap out...changing the fluid will only then make things worse.

MD350

I have recently rented a 2007 Taurus X Eddie Bauer and a 2007 Ford Fusion. I was impressed.

I also know that Toyota and Lexus have had recent problems. So, I think this is a mix between an increase in quality in Fords and a decrease in quality in Toyota/Lexus. They met somewhere in the middle and Ford is having a "field day" with this advertising campaign.

Yeah, Ford has improved. But, they also caught Toyota/Lexus on a stumble. Once Toyota/Lexus fixes their quality issues, Ford will be left in the dust.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Agree with all that.

Haha, don't agree that this is guaranteed.

I believe Toyota/Lexus' problem goes deeper than recent glitches. I was never much of a fan of Toyotas (too bland in most cases or just not that interesting to me) but when Lexus was launched I was blown away. Of course the LS was great, but even the first ES300 (ES250 was a joke) was simply unbelievable compared to any competition in terms of refinement, interior materials and quality fit and finish.

Fast forward to today and most Toyota and Lexus models impress me even less today with further cheapening of the interiors, more and more plastic and less and less wood, chrome or even textures, AND the competition has improved by leaps and bounds, in both quality (less defects) and the richness/sophistication of interiors and exteriors - probably because Toyota/Lexus scared the crap out of them years ago!

Since most new car brands are pretty darned reliable at this point, it comes down to 'perceived' quality, such as interior design/richness. Interiors matter a LOT to me, and I believe...

Cadillac CTS blows away a Lexus ES350
Chevy Malibu or Honda Accord blow away a Toyota Camry
Chevy Silverado blows away a Toyota Tundra

These are just a few examples.

Astoundingly, BMW has gotten away with CRAP interiors but that's because a lot of buyers appreciate their sport/handling capabilities, something Lexus has cared little about.

Anyway, Toyota is a formidable competitor and will hopefully rise to new challenges but there's no sign of it yet.

CdeFabio

As far as longevity goes Ford is way behind in my opinion. Between my wife and I we have had 3 Fords in the past ranging from 1988 though 1998 and all 3 started to fall apart with major issues at 60,000 miles. They ranged from Mustang GT, Probe GT and Explorer. The Probe even was mostly Mazda underneath and it still had major issues. Never again will we own a Ford.

MD350

Being an owner of an 07 ES350 that has had numerous issues, I do agree with you.

mmarshall

Agree totally. And the later ES330, for the money, was one of the best Lexus models ever done, though, of course, not equal to the LS. I sometimes wish I had bought one before they went out out of producton. The IS300 (which I DID own) and the LS models have been the most reliable.



Yes and no. Some manufacturers, like GM, ARE doing better, but others, like Subaru (and I'm sorry to say this as a Subaru fan ) are out-doing Toyota in the cheapening of their new models. Even Acura, long known for Swiss-Watch quality, has taken a lot of the richness out of their interiors for the metallic, plastic, high-tech look. The new TSX is the latest example.....as were the latest MDX and RDX.



Aside from the rather dull-looking and dull-feeling Dakota Leather packages in some BMW models, a couple of flimsy steering-column stalks, and the notorious I-Drive (which, fortunately, you can avoid in some non-NAV models), their interiors aren't really that bad. I've seen lots worse.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

Ford especially their Lincoln luxury brand is getting better for sure. The MKX sprot-ute is very nice

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I can understand how your experience has soured you forever with Ford. But your most recent experience was with a now 10 year old design so things can and have changed.

The newest Explorer (which I own) is IMO definitely a step up from what it replaced, thanks largely to improvements in the F-150 that filtered across. If it had been available, I probably would have gotten the Edge which is really nice and selling very well.

The Fusion and new Taurus make cars like the old Tempo and older Taurus laughable (in a sad way ).

Anyway, can understand why you feel how you do! Ford and GM certainly 'earned' their terrible reputations through decades of mismanagement and arrogance.

19psi

something i always like to point out to people when i find myself in this or similar discussions, is that one needs to look at a 10 year old car to really compare.
compare a 98 camry that's had basic maintenance and a 98 taurus with the same basic maintenance. which one would still feel like a good, well running, smooth car? in my experience as a mechanic, the camry is always much nicer after 10 years than the taurus.

take it even further. look at a 90 LS that's been maintained well compared to a 90 town car. drive them and see which one feels like something you'd like to have.

CdeFabio

I also have heard that the quality has gotten a lot better. Glad to hear you are having good luck with your new Explorer. I have talked to many people that have had no problems at all with their Explorer, some with well over 100,000 miles on them. My wife's company uses F150's on their mine property so they take some very heavy abuse and they seem to work fine. We must have had some bad ones - I know I was very glad to have the extended warranty on the Probe GT - that payed for itself many times over! With todays market it seems quality is a must, people expect it. Auto makers are now more focused on it than ever before.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

To me that only matters if you're interested in buying 10+ yr old cars. Brands do get better, and worse.