Stormwind

They've been running this ad all week long on all channels, have Toyota quailty really degraded this much?

mmarshall

Ford, overall, actually does a pretty fair job of building reliable vehicles these days...especially with the Fusion/Milan/MKZ triplets. The biggest remaining problem at Ford seems to be the poor fit/finish and the rather cheap trim and hardware they use. Poor fit/finish/hardware is also a problem at Dodge/Chrysler, and formerly was at GM, but a number of GM vehicles have seen notable improvement lately.

Has Toyota's quality actually fallen? Yes and no...it depends on the individual vehicle and in what area you are talking about. From what I've seen lately, Toyota quality today varies from superb to downright lousy.

mikez

You know what manufacturer's quality suck? Dodge.

Even till now I still refuse to believe it, maybe its a new feature with cars? You tell me.

I have seen 2 Dodge within a week (dont know the name, but its one of the new models that looks kind of like a hatch/wagon), both of them relatively new judging from their paints... and both of them, when they turn on the turn signal, the headlight on the side of the blinking signal shuts off, and when the turn signal turns off, the headlight comes back on. And I actually had one made a right turn after me after I drove past, and then making a left turn off the road, so I saw both of his headlight does it.

Is that safety feature? Or bad wiring? lol

sleeper408

iTrader: (6)

All the Dodges interior look the same.

<VENOM>

What about the thousands or millions of people that Ford has crapped on, let alone GM and Chrysler my old man would only drive a Ford if it was given to him and they can't afford to give cars to the old timers to say sorry we built such garbage but now since we lost over half the market, and the foreign cars really are competition to take serious where trying to change our ways before we end up in the history books

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

In reality Ford has bigger worries from Hyundai and the coming Chinese brands, but their campaign is a good way to remind them that their quality has improved DRAMATICALLY in the past 10 years, and yes, Toyota has slipped a bit, not necessarily significantly in 'defect's but in material quality.

mmarshall

I talked with a Chrysler/Dodge Product development Engineer about this at the D.C Auto Show in January. The company is well aware of their quality and fit/finish shortcomings...especially in the Caliber/Compass/Nitro/Liberty platform. His excuse (and it sounded credible) was the restrictions and policies that parent owner Mercedes-Benz put on the company for years. He said that now that the company is free from M-B ownership, they will be better able to address those quality issues. A major reworking of the vehicles on that platform....with better fit/finish, better materials, and better quality is in the works as we speak.

Several Dodge models meet that description.....Caliber, Nitro, Magnum, and some versions of the Avenger.


Sounds more like a relay problem to me, though any one of several things could cause it, especally if this particular Dodge model has German-designed electronics in it. German-designed auto electronics are notoriously unreliable.


Anyhow, back to Ford/Toyota..............the thread topic.

mmarshall

Basically I agree, but Ford, in all honesty, has to do some more work on their fit/finish, especially on the lower-priced models. Their vehicles don't break down that much any more, but, if you look at the interiors and hardware of the Focus, Escape, Mariner, Fusion, etc....there is, IMO, too much cheapness and dull, thin plastic in them.

This is especially noticeable on the second-generation Escape/Mariner, compared to their first-generation predecessors. However, otherwise, I personally like the Escape/Mariner, even with its interior cheapness. It is currently on the list of the Top Ten vehicles, and Top Five American-brand vehicles, I would buy as my personal daily driver (especially for bad weather), though, of course, Subaru wrote the book on inexpensive AWD.

spwolf

this is based on initial quality - perception of quality survey by some company... I am sure it was posted here before... as much as I remember, compared to year before, Toyota improved more than Ford :-)

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

Fords advertising: Toyota this, Toyota that, we do this, we can do that, yada yada yada Nice that Ford acknowledges that it is always trailing Toyota.

GM advertising: Your not American if you do not buy our truck.

Toyota advertising: Never makes a comparison and yet keeps up selling. It's good to be the king! And look out for Hyundai, hot on the trails of everyone.

Don't get me started on Ford quality, there are already plenty of websites that address that topic in depth and I would much rather having long term reliability vs short term.

herbvdh

If that is the case why does my friends Fix Or Repair Daily require major repair every two weeks till he dumped it. If this is Quality forget it i!!! this is blatant false advertising.

ArmyofOne

Then why is my dads F150 given him over 160,000 trouble free miles?

My Brother's 1996 Ford Ranger has 200,000 and he replaced the o2 sensor and clutch at 190K...other than that...gas and oil.

Why did my ZX-2 give me no trouble except for the trouble i gave it?

Why did i have a 1995 Ford Contour (the most notoriously unreliable car that ford has ever made) in my family for 384,992 miles and never have a single problem other than maintenance?...(clutch at 170K, brakes etc...)i never even had to change the muffler on that car

Why do i have 2 friends with tauruses (1992 and 2001) with 300K and 190K miles respectively?


Your theory doesnt hold up, for every ford owner that has had problems with their car, i could show you 2 that have had nothing but good things to say...

HOWEVER...those that have good things to say have never owned a toyota/lexus or a honda or nissan...LOL

My Civic, as mmarshal has said, seems to be built like a swiss watch. and i wouldnt trade it for any american made car...having said that, i know someone with a Dodge Nitro (2007) that has been in the shop 56 times for 56 different problems. I also know a Dodge Nitro owner who has had 0 problems. So, once again, your theory holds no water.

kingofire

Well they may have reached Toyota quality but they are far away from reaching Honda quality.

BCP43002

I think they have reached the reliability of the 1980's Toyotas in the JD Powers ratings.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

heh. My colleague had a rental Ford Edge while his 2002 Accord was in the body shop (fender bender). The car had less than 5k miles on it and left him stranded on the side of the highway. He never had a problem with his 6 year old Accord like that. He actually liked the Edge and had been thinking about buying one to replace his Accord. Not likely anymore... he's looking at the Pilot or RDX now.