GM hybrid sales off to a slow start in 2008
04-15-08, 06:34 PM
#16
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The 6.0 L Hybrid has less horsepower than the regular 6.0 L in the XL price about $9000 more lets see gas at $3.50 (for an argument) is about 2570 gallons now you get 8 mpg city 3 mpg highway better makes no sense. So what is the benefit. Source of my info http://www.gmc.com/yukon/index.jsp Maybe I should start comparing equipment/options etc. 
04-15-08, 06:39 PM
#17
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New 4.9L SIDI V-8 and two-mode hybrid system
For the first time, GM’s rear-wheel-drive two-mode hybrid transmission is paired with a smaller-displacement version of the small-block engine. The new V-8 4.9L E85-capable engine powers the Denali XT with an estimated 326 horsepower (243 kW). It uses direct-injection technology to produce the power of a larger engine, but consumes less fuel and produces lower emissions.
Also, the functionality of GM’s Active Fuel Management system has been expanded through the use of hybrid technologies, enhancing the cylinder-deactivating feature to further improve fuel efficiency.
The Denali XT’s two-mode hybrid system is partnered with the 4.9L engine and uses an electrically variable transmission to enhance fuel efficiency in city and highway driving. In city driving, all-electric propulsion is used at low speeds; on the highway, fixed-gear operation enables efficient performance even when towing a trailer.
The specific characteristics of the Denali XT allowed the synergistic evolution of GM’s small-block V-8 and two-mode hybrid beyond the recently introduced in GM two-mode hybrid products, such as the GMC Yukon Hybrid and Sierra Hybrid. During this optimization process, additional powertrain technologies have been integrated, including Active Thermal Management, which transfers thermal energy from one driveline component to another to improve efficiency; and a high-efficiency axle configuration, which fundamentally reduces the losses normally associated with conventional axle configurations.
The integration of the advanced internal combustion engine technologies and two-mode hybrid system on the Denali XT reinforces GMC’s Professional Grade position as a brand that continues to exceed customer expectations.
For the first time, GM’s rear-wheel-drive two-mode hybrid transmission is paired with a smaller-displacement version of the small-block engine. The new V-8 4.9L E85-capable engine powers the Denali XT with an estimated 326 horsepower (243 kW). It uses direct-injection technology to produce the power of a larger engine, but consumes less fuel and produces lower emissions.
Also, the functionality of GM’s Active Fuel Management system has been expanded through the use of hybrid technologies, enhancing the cylinder-deactivating feature to further improve fuel efficiency.
The Denali XT’s two-mode hybrid system is partnered with the 4.9L engine and uses an electrically variable transmission to enhance fuel efficiency in city and highway driving. In city driving, all-electric propulsion is used at low speeds; on the highway, fixed-gear operation enables efficient performance even when towing a trailer.
The specific characteristics of the Denali XT allowed the synergistic evolution of GM’s small-block V-8 and two-mode hybrid beyond the recently introduced in GM two-mode hybrid products, such as the GMC Yukon Hybrid and Sierra Hybrid. During this optimization process, additional powertrain technologies have been integrated, including Active Thermal Management, which transfers thermal energy from one driveline component to another to improve efficiency; and a high-efficiency axle configuration, which fundamentally reduces the losses normally associated with conventional axle configurations.
The integration of the advanced internal combustion engine technologies and two-mode hybrid system on the Denali XT reinforces GMC’s Professional Grade position as a brand that continues to exceed customer expectations.
CHICAGO – GMC unveiled the Denali XT concept at the 2008 Chicago Auto Show. It offers a 50-percent increase in combined fuel economy over comparable small pickup trucks when running on gasoline, and it incorporates a new, muscular form in a performance-styled, hybrid sport-utility truck (SUT).
The Denali XT has a unibody architecture and rear-wheel drive, enabling its distinctive design and efficient performance. It builds on the equity of the Denali line and its reputation for advanced engineering and refinement, including the first combination of GM’s two-mode hybrid system with an E85 ethanol-capable engine. Denali XT’s new, more efficient 4.9L version of GM’s small-block V-8 features fuel-saving technologies such as direct-injection technology and Active Fuel Management.
The Denali XT has a unibody architecture and rear-wheel drive, enabling its distinctive design and efficient performance. It builds on the equity of the Denali line and its reputation for advanced engineering and refinement, including the first combination of GM’s two-mode hybrid system with an E85 ethanol-capable engine. Denali XT’s new, more efficient 4.9L version of GM’s small-block V-8 features fuel-saving technologies such as direct-injection technology and Active Fuel Management.
50% improvement over small trucks. A 2WD 4 speed auto Canyon will give you 17 mpg city so a 50% improvement would be 24ish mpg. Not too shabby considering the power output.
Last edited by SLegacy99; 04-15-08 at 06:44 PM.
04-15-08, 07:02 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
GM just doesn't have the rep as a green company, whether or not that rep is deserved... so I think this green advertising is just going to take time to build momentum, and is also doing them more good than just straight up sales numbers can really reflect. It's an image thing that will rub off on the sale of their other vehicles.
People just seem to assume that all Toyota vehicles get better mileage than their competition from GM, and while that is true in some cases, it's not at all always the case.
Additionally, I do kind of wonder how many people out there are going to buy a gas guzzling SUV and then turn around and buy a hybrid version to save on gas. It's almost like buying a bag of fat free potato chips... the people who are really serious about health for the most part probably won't be buying chips in the first place unless they really really want to or 'have' to (like people that are eco-conscious but just have so many kids they HAVE to have an SUV.
Most SUV buyers these days seem to have 2-3 kids tops and have no actual need for a Tahoe, but buy one anyway. Those people aren't the kind to pay extra for a hybrid.
People just seem to assume that all Toyota vehicles get better mileage than their competition from GM, and while that is true in some cases, it's not at all always the case.
Additionally, I do kind of wonder how many people out there are going to buy a gas guzzling SUV and then turn around and buy a hybrid version to save on gas. It's almost like buying a bag of fat free potato chips... the people who are really serious about health for the most part probably won't be buying chips in the first place unless they really really want to or 'have' to (like people that are eco-conscious but just have so many kids they HAVE to have an SUV.
Most SUV buyers these days seem to have 2-3 kids tops and have no actual need for a Tahoe, but buy one anyway. Those people aren't the kind to pay extra for a hybrid.
04-16-08, 12:57 AM
#19
It just funny that GM is the loudest about their hybrids, and yet they sell less than 300 units per month.
Thats pathetic.
04-16-08, 08:25 AM
#20
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I agree. Perhaps they would have been more successful if they had done an Outlook/Traverse hybrid first. Something more affordable. However, Toyota had already done the CUV so I see why they would try a large SUV. However, it seems to me that if you can afford a $50k hybrid Tahoe, you might be just as inclined to spend that money on an Escalade.
04-16-08, 08:28 AM
#21
Lexus Champion
I agree. Perhaps they would have been more successful if they had done an Outlook/Traverse hybrid first. Something more affordable. However, Toyota had already done the CUV so I see why they would try a large SUV. However, it seems to me that if you can afford a $50k hybrid Tahoe, you might be just as inclined to spend that money on an Escalade.
04-16-08, 09:05 AM
#23
Pole Position
It's great that GM is serious with hybrid tech and in few years they will be at the top together with Toyota while others will trail these two quite a bit.
Toyota has the most advanced hybrid system on the market today so its not a surprise that people choose them over GM and that is what I think has scared off other manufacturers from seriously getting into hybrids. They just cant compete or think they cant at the moment.
GM is also clever by using their hybrid tech in big SUVs something Toyota currently doesnt offer so they are getting their share and while its true that's not the place where big sales volumes are right now its a right place to be for evolution of their technology. Once their systems become more sophisticated and can compete with Toyota they will apply it to other more mainstream products.
What I really cant predict is what other manufacturers are going to do. Either they will have to lend tech from either Toyota or GM or they will have to engage into some huge joint effort to come up with something to be competitive.
Toyota has the most advanced hybrid system on the market today so its not a surprise that people choose them over GM and that is what I think has scared off other manufacturers from seriously getting into hybrids. They just cant compete or think they cant at the moment.
GM is also clever by using their hybrid tech in big SUVs something Toyota currently doesnt offer so they are getting their share and while its true that's not the place where big sales volumes are right now its a right place to be for evolution of their technology. Once their systems become more sophisticated and can compete with Toyota they will apply it to other more mainstream products.
What I really cant predict is what other manufacturers are going to do. Either they will have to lend tech from either Toyota or GM or they will have to engage into some huge joint effort to come up with something to be competitive.
04-16-08, 09:09 AM
#24
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GM just doesn't have the rep as a green company, whether or not that rep is deserved... so I think this green advertising is just going to take time to build momentum, and is also doing them more good than just straight up sales numbers can really reflect. It's an image thing that will rub off on the sale of their other vehicles.
People just seem to assume that all Toyota vehicles get better mileage than their competition from GM, and while that is true in some cases, it's not at all always the case.
Additionally, I do kind of wonder how many people out there are going to buy a gas guzzling SUV and then turn around and buy a hybrid version to save on gas. It's almost like buying a bag of fat free potato chips... the people who are really serious about health for the most part probably won't be buying chips in the first place unless they really really want to or 'have' to (like people that are eco-conscious but just have so many kids they HAVE to have an SUV.
Most SUV buyers these days seem to have 2-3 kids tops and have no actual need for a Tahoe, but buy one anyway. Those people aren't the kind to pay extra for a hybrid.
People just seem to assume that all Toyota vehicles get better mileage than their competition from GM, and while that is true in some cases, it's not at all always the case.
Additionally, I do kind of wonder how many people out there are going to buy a gas guzzling SUV and then turn around and buy a hybrid version to save on gas. It's almost like buying a bag of fat free potato chips... the people who are really serious about health for the most part probably won't be buying chips in the first place unless they really really want to or 'have' to (like people that are eco-conscious but just have so many kids they HAVE to have an SUV.
Most SUV buyers these days seem to have 2-3 kids tops and have no actual need for a Tahoe, but buy one anyway. Those people aren't the kind to pay extra for a hybrid.
so why not this? I think it has more to do with your statement that people just "think" green=TOyota and there is no awareness that GM is offering these products.I applaud GM for having them and I do wish they do well.
04-16-08, 09:39 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
Well.. for one, their non-hybrid versions aren't nearly as inefficient as something like a full sized V8 BOF SUV. So I wouldn't really consider lux car buyers as by default 'potato chip buyers' since they're not almost by default care-free about the economy of their vehicles, or at least not as care free.
Also I think that... back on that image thing we're talking about... most GS450h, LS600h, and RX400h buyers are buying those cars for the image... not for the power or economy gains... and Lexus is a car often times bought first and foremost for image... Chevy... not so much.
04-17-08, 08:01 AM
#26
Lexus Champion
I think people will start paying attention to GM hybrids when they offer the Volt. The large SUV's are money makers for GM, but people are buying less and less of them now with high gas prices. I highly doubt people even care that its a hybrid. Some probably just notice the size and price and thats enough to convince them to look elsewhere. They should have put that two mode in the lighter vehicles first.
And the mild hybrids just arent worth it IMO.
And the mild hybrids just arent worth it IMO.
04-17-08, 08:59 AM
#27
Lexus Champion
Highlander Hybrid sees a 59% gain in city mileage, 8% gain in highway mileage, and no gain in power.
I fail to see how the gains the Tahoe hybrid sees are pathetic relative to any other hybrid SUV on the market.
04-17-08, 09:14 AM
#28
Lexus Champion
50% increase in city mileage, 10% increase in highway milage, 5% increase in power.
Highlander Hybrid sees a 59% gain in city mileage, 8% gain in highway mileage, and no gain in power.
I fail to see how the gains the Tahoe hybrid sees are pathetic relative to any other hybrid SUV on the market.
Highlander Hybrid sees a 59% gain in city mileage, 8% gain in highway mileage, and no gain in power.
I fail to see how the gains the Tahoe hybrid sees are pathetic relative to any other hybrid SUV on the market.
city mpg is only going from 14 ----> 21
hwy mpg from 20 to a whopping 22.
sorry the numbers ARE pathetic with or without Hybrid technology THAT'S WHY THE SALES NUMBERS ARE CRAP.
Do the numbers on the Ford Escape Hybrid vs the V6
...
04-17-08, 09:32 AM
#29
Lexus Champion
Let's put it this way. If you were going to spend $3000 in city driving gas in your Tahoe... you'll now only spend $2000. That's pretty significant.
Do the numbers on the Ford Escape Hybrid vs the V6
It does see a pretty impressive gain of 70% city mileage vs the 4-cyl as well as a moderate bump in power... but it also uses a different motor design vs the traditional 4-cyl... Atkinson cycle, plus a CVT transmission, which by itself would likely boost the mileage of even a non-hybrid Escape by a fairly significant margin.
Not saying the Escape Hybrid isn't impressive... it definitely is. I'm just saying you're comparing a Tahoe which still uses a 6.0L V8 with 4-speed auto and 2-mode hybrid system to a 5.3L non hybrid Tahoe 4-speed auto. The only real difference there is the hybrid system.
The Escape actually uses a more efficient base 4-cyl motor, plus CVT, in addition to its hybrid system.
04-20-08, 08:50 PM
#30
Chevy Aveo 24/34 combined: 27
Toyota Yaris :29/36 combined:32
Chevy Cobalt 24/33 combined:27
Toyota Corolla 28/37 comined 31
*Chevy "Classic" 21/31 combined 25
Toyota Camry 21/31 combined 25
Chevy Malibu 22/30
Camry Hybrid 33/34 combined 34
Malibu Hybrid 24/32 combined 27
Chevy Uplander 16/23 combined 19
Toyota Sienna 17/23 combined 19
2wd Chevy Colorado 18/24 combined 20
2wd Toyota Tacoma 20/25 combined 22
4wd Chevy Colorado 16/22 combined 18
4wd Toyota Tacoma 17/22 combined 19
4wd Chevy Silverado with 6.0 13/17 combined 14
4wd Toyota Tundra with 5.7 13/17 combined 14
4wd Chevy Equinox V6 17/24 combined 19
4wd Toyota RAV4 V6 19/26 combined 21
4wd Chevy Tahoe V8 11/14 combined 12
4wd Toyota 4Runner V8 14/17 combined 15
4wd Chevy T-blazer 14/20 combined 16
4wd Toyota Highlander 17/23 combined 19
4wd Chevy Suburban 12/17 combined 14
4wd Toyota Sequoia 13/18 combined 15
So which vehicle in Chevy's lineup gets better mileage overall than their toyota counterpart?
*chevy doesn't really pit the "classic" against the camry, that's left to the Malibu.