What has happened to Honda?
04-16-08, 05:24 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I actually grew to like the current RL, but they've beaten it with the ugly stick for the refresh.
Everyone has the same opinion...Acura kicked some *** back in the day with the NSX, Legend, etc. Now they've become more mainstream, to the point of having nothing remarkable to offer.
At least the redesigned TSX has Ford Focus looks to go along with its gutless motor and outrageous sticker price...
Everyone has the same opinion...Acura kicked some *** back in the day with the NSX, Legend, etc. Now they've become more mainstream, to the point of having nothing remarkable to offer.
At least the redesigned TSX has Ford Focus looks to go along with its gutless motor and outrageous sticker price...
04-16-08, 05:25 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
04-16-08, 05:26 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
04-16-08, 05:30 PM
#49
I agree with some of your points. I'm disappointed with where Honda/Acura is taking there cars. I've owned a Honda for almost 10 years before I bought my 2IS and loved the cars they produced. One of the most reliable, reasonably priced and fun cars to own.
But lately, their design has turned me off... The Accord, Civic, Ridgeline and Passport....
I think lately, I'm most disappointed about is this clusterfck of a console....
But lately, their design has turned me off... The Accord, Civic, Ridgeline and Passport....
I think lately, I'm most disappointed about is this clusterfck of a console....
04-16-08, 11:17 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
I think Honda is turning into a horrible juxtaposition of GM and BMW with a Japanese operating philosophy. I've was never a fan of Hondas in general even though I do think the older Accords, the first-gen Pilot and Odyssey are very good cars, but they're undergoing an identity crisis.
04-17-08, 12:05 AM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
HoMoCo. 
Let me sum it up for everyone. Honda still makes great cars that are reliable and well-built. Honda cars do everything that most people need them to do. However, Honda no longer makes cars for driving enthusiasts (save for the sole surviving S2K). And they're ugly. End of story.
Let me sum it up for everyone. Honda still makes great cars that are reliable and well-built. Honda cars do everything that most people need them to do. However, Honda no longer makes cars for driving enthusiasts (save for the sole surviving S2K). And they're ugly. End of story.
04-17-08, 12:34 AM
#52
I agree with pvmike1 100% as well. The only 2 Honda cars of modern day time (I never got to experience the Honda S Roadsters back in the day) that I would consider a drivers car are the NSX and S2000. And I would consider them to be among the best drivers cars period. There have been some sporty driving cars like the Prelude, and Integra/RSX, but only in the Type-R form would I consider them a drivers car.
04-17-08, 01:45 AM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
I remember seeing my first Honda in Australia (the 5th Gen Accord) and seriously wondered why my dad had picked up the equivalent gen Camry instead.
I was then soon exposed to the 4th gen accord, and thought it just might be the best looking sedan ever.
Though the likes of the Civic and Integra never really excited me, I was a huge fan of the Legend, and then soon after--the rising TL name.
Nowadays however, it almost feels as if Honda has "peaked" and doesn't know what to do with itself.
I was then soon exposed to the 4th gen accord, and thought it just might be the best looking sedan ever.
Though the likes of the Civic and Integra never really excited me, I was a huge fan of the Legend, and then soon after--the rising TL name.
Nowadays however, it almost feels as if Honda has "peaked" and doesn't know what to do with itself.
04-17-08, 11:01 AM
#54
Lexus Champion
The Civic Si is a fun little car to drive, just like the Scion tC and Mazda 3. But much like CK6Speed, I wouldn't consider these cars to be real sports cars, save for the hardcore R versions of these cars (like the ITR). In my mind, a FWD car must really be something special to be considered a driver's car.
04-17-08, 05:39 PM
#57
Lexus Champion
Honda's SOHC design is genious! Why do you need twin cams? The J still has 24 valves. it's still an OHC design. Think about it, if you can cram all 24 lobes onto just two cams instead of 4, what's the difference? There is no performance gain from twin cams Vs. single cams when we're talking OHC, multi-valve engines. Honda saved weight and created a smaller engine package and it works great.
As far as HP goes, how is Honda lacking? The RL is 290 HP and it's not even direct injected! And it only has a SOHC!! The new accord is 268HP which is exactly what Toyota's NON direct injected engine is. Guess what? It's a SOHC engine also.
I do agree with you 100% about cramming too much Hp into a FWD chassis and as these HP wars continue, Honda will have to move to a RWD/AWD layout if they ever hope to compete. But Honda are masters at the whole FWD thing so who knows what they'll come with in the future.
As far as HP goes, how is Honda lacking? The RL is 290 HP and it's not even direct injected! And it only has a SOHC!! The new accord is 268HP which is exactly what Toyota's NON direct injected engine is. Guess what? It's a SOHC engine also.
I do agree with you 100% about cramming too much Hp into a FWD chassis and as these HP wars continue, Honda will have to move to a RWD/AWD layout if they ever hope to compete. But Honda are masters at the whole FWD thing so who knows what they'll come with in the future.
But the J-series V6s are very good motors, the only weak spot is the tranny it's bolted to. My neighbor used to have a 2nd gen Odyssey, and that thing can MOVE for being a van - our Sienna is smoother. They have a Pilot now and even that moves around effortlessly.
04-17-08, 06:33 PM
#58
I have often wondered this as well... especially with Acura.
I think the last "really good" Civic was the 1992-95 generation, despite the 96-current generations being "safer" cars. I think the last "really good" Accord was the 1990-93 generation. Quality seemed to start declining after these gens.
Acura was the start of the Japanese luxury make in 1985 (despite the Toyota Cressida being nearly as luxurious as the Legend of that year.
What really confuses me now about Acura is why do they not make a large luxury car. The latest generation RL looks small to me and not competitive with the Lexus LS or Mercedes S-Class. The 96-04 Acura RL was a fairly large car, but still lacked a V8 and RWD. It puzzles me why they have never attempted to make a large, V8, RWD sedan. I personally think that the current RL should have a Honda badge on it and sold as the large Honda to compete with the Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima and a ALL NEW RL be made- larger in size with a V8! It sure took them a long time to make a truck, but now that they have, its still not like a real truck.
Oh that new 09' Pilot.... YUCK! I have have not complained about Honda styling since the 1984-87 Civic hatchback.
I think the last "really good" Civic was the 1992-95 generation, despite the 96-current generations being "safer" cars. I think the last "really good" Accord was the 1990-93 generation. Quality seemed to start declining after these gens.
Acura was the start of the Japanese luxury make in 1985 (despite the Toyota Cressida being nearly as luxurious as the Legend of that year.
What really confuses me now about Acura is why do they not make a large luxury car. The latest generation RL looks small to me and not competitive with the Lexus LS or Mercedes S-Class. The 96-04 Acura RL was a fairly large car, but still lacked a V8 and RWD. It puzzles me why they have never attempted to make a large, V8, RWD sedan. I personally think that the current RL should have a Honda badge on it and sold as the large Honda to compete with the Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima and a ALL NEW RL be made- larger in size with a V8! It sure took them a long time to make a truck, but now that they have, its still not like a real truck.
Oh that new 09' Pilot.... YUCK! I have have not complained about Honda styling since the 1984-87 Civic hatchback.
04-17-08, 06:43 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
The only real problems with the 90-93, compared to today, were the overboosted power steering and the bumpy automatic transmission shifts. Both, fortunately, are long gone.
04-17-08, 06:46 PM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have often wondered this as well... especially with Acura.
I think the last "really good" Civic was the 1992-95 generation, despite the 96-current generations being "safer" cars. I think the last "really good" Accord was the 1990-93 generation. Quality seemed to start declining after these gens.
Acura was the start of the Japanese luxury make in 1985 (despite the Toyota Cressida being nearly as luxurious as the Legend of that year.
What really confuses me now about Acura is why do they not make a large luxury car. The latest generation RL looks small to me and not competitive with the Lexus LS or Mercedes S-Class. The 96-04 Acura RL was a fairly large car, but still lacked a V8 and RWD. It puzzles me why they have never attempted to make a large, V8, RWD sedan. I personally think that the current RL should have a Honda badge on it and sold as the large Honda to compete with the Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima and a ALL NEW RL be made- larger in size with a V8! It sure took them a long time to make a truck, but now that they have, its still not like a real truck.
Oh that new 09' Pilot.... YUCK! I have have not complained about Honda styling since the 1984-87 Civic hatchback.
I think the last "really good" Civic was the 1992-95 generation, despite the 96-current generations being "safer" cars. I think the last "really good" Accord was the 1990-93 generation. Quality seemed to start declining after these gens.
Acura was the start of the Japanese luxury make in 1985 (despite the Toyota Cressida being nearly as luxurious as the Legend of that year.
What really confuses me now about Acura is why do they not make a large luxury car. The latest generation RL looks small to me and not competitive with the Lexus LS or Mercedes S-Class. The 96-04 Acura RL was a fairly large car, but still lacked a V8 and RWD. It puzzles me why they have never attempted to make a large, V8, RWD sedan. I personally think that the current RL should have a Honda badge on it and sold as the large Honda to compete with the Toyota Avalon and Nissan Maxima and a ALL NEW RL be made- larger in size with a V8! It sure took them a long time to make a truck, but now that they have, its still not like a real truck.
Oh that new 09' Pilot.... YUCK! I have have not complained about Honda styling since the 1984-87 Civic hatchback.
