BMW 550 grows into 555I?
04-23-08, 11:29 AM
#31
Lexus Champion
This car gets better fuel economy than the one it replaces.
It also happens to make more power.
And you're complaining about what, exactly?
You got your fuel economy improvements, but you're upset about it making even more power (with a more usable torque band)?
LOL.
If the GS460 came out making 400hp/450tq with a flatter torque curve AND also saw a notable economy increase this thread would be very different... much much less pessimistic.
Bias much?
It also happens to make more power.
And you're complaining about what, exactly?
You got your fuel economy improvements, but you're upset about it making even more power (with a more usable torque band)?
LOL.
If the GS460 came out making 400hp/450tq with a flatter torque curve AND also saw a notable economy increase this thread would be very different... much much less pessimistic.
Bias much?
wow! Kudos to BMW. I currently drive an e60 545i and imo, the power in it, is MORE than enough...very fast car. I can only imagine how insane this engine will be.
04-23-08, 12:03 PM
#33
Lexus Champion
My 335i is putting out around 330hp but I'd love to have an even 400... I'd even pay a little extra for it. Only reason I won't buy the programmer for it is it's a lease and it'd void the terms of the lease.
I don't think people realize that 400hp is not THAT much, really... especially when it's kept under control by all of today's stability control nannies.
I don't think people realize that 400hp is not THAT much, really... especially when it's kept under control by all of today's stability control nannies.
04-23-08, 12:10 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
I'm willing to bet that fuel economy is less sensitive to the people interested in the 555i. I wouldn't give a rats a$$ about $4 vs. $5 fuel if I made enough to really afford a 555 at $70k. Luxury is about excess, not economy and the economics reflect that.
04-23-08, 12:12 PM
#35
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I agree Threxx. It will be an amazing engine. How do you like your 335i so far? I contemplated for awhile about buying one but I went with an e92 m3. I post at e90post, and I always wonder if I went the right way...the wait is killing me lol.
04-23-08, 12:13 PM
#36
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I'm with Sens4Miles here, when does it stop? Really, when? Why can't we have a nice 300-350hp car getting 28 mpg? The only one close is the GS 450h.
Then the cars just get heavier anyway. So the next M5 will be 4500 lbs? Is that fun?
Luxury should be about having the BEST fuel economy and the BEST power.
Lexus seems to be the only one trying to give an option and even their first generation of hybrids are a mixed bag.
I guess 300hp Altimas/Accords/Camrys/Malibus are around the corner!
Then the cars just get heavier anyway. So the next M5 will be 4500 lbs? Is that fun?
Luxury should be about having the BEST fuel economy and the BEST power.
Lexus seems to be the only one trying to give an option and even their first generation of hybrids are a mixed bag.
I guess 300hp Altimas/Accords/Camrys/Malibus are around the corner!
04-23-08, 12:22 PM
#37
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everyone pro the new engine is talking about the gas mileage increase in the engine that happens to have more power via turbos.
but the gas mileage increase is minimal at best, we're talking about 1-2 miles per gallon hwy and city. think about it if they kept the current engine, detuned it a bit, and added the turbos. what happens then? about the same horsepower as now, but with a much greater gas mileage boost.
but the gas mileage increase is minimal at best, we're talking about 1-2 miles per gallon hwy and city. think about it if they kept the current engine, detuned it a bit, and added the turbos. what happens then? about the same horsepower as now, but with a much greater gas mileage boost.
04-23-08, 12:22 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...49&postcount=2
And you were very upset when it only game out with 342hp
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=11
How strange it is that BMW coming out with a 400hp motor is deemed excessive by you now, whereas you were predicting the GS460 to have 400hp and were very upset when it only had 342.
Not EVERY engineer can get more power and make it more efficient. Those that do, probably get drowned out by marketing.
Luxury is about LEADING, so LEAD the way with power AND fuel economy.
Last edited by Threxx; 04-23-08 at 12:27 PM.
04-23-08, 12:26 PM
#39
Lexus Champion
Between an E92 M3 and a 335i I think the 335i offers 95% of the performance with significantly better every day comfort. The M3 does have the advantage of being much rarer and prettier to look at, though. Also that extra bit of performance, too.
04-23-08, 12:28 PM
#40
People who are gonna be buying BMW 555i or whatever it's gonna be called will not have gas mileage on top of their checklist if it's on their checklist at all.
everyone pro the new engine is talking about the gas mileage increase in the engine that happens to have more power via turbos.
but the gas mileage increase is minimal at best, we're talking about 1-2 miles per gallon hwy and city. think about it if they kept the current engine, detuned it a bit, and added the turbos. what happens then? about the same horsepower as now, but with a much greater gas mileage boost.
but the gas mileage increase is minimal at best, we're talking about 1-2 miles per gallon hwy and city. think about it if they kept the current engine, detuned it a bit, and added the turbos. what happens then? about the same horsepower as now, but with a much greater gas mileage boost.
04-23-08, 12:31 PM
#41
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Ahhh that's exactly my dilemma...
04-23-08, 12:32 PM
#42
in this case i have to agree with the power thing. i personally don't see a problem. the fact is we don't know (if it's coming) the gas mileage of the 555i. maybe it can get better gas mileage, who knows. if that's the case and they still get more power, kudos to bmw
my friend's 335i can eat m3 already, but he's still managing about 20mpg mix driving. that's much better gas mileage than my previous is300, gs400, and sc430, and it has more power as well.
so i think technology is still advancing the right path. kind of the same when you look at the ls460. it has 380hp (quite a bit more than the ls430), but gas mileage is better. same with the is-f with even more power to spare
the hp is there and i have accepted the fact that everyone is at it, even lexus. don't tell me they are not, coz' they explicitly said that with the is-f, when they announced it, it's more hp than any of competitors. they are sucked into it as well. however lexus might be doing it a bit differently, meaning not as much focus on hp but maybe a bit more on emission or gas mileage. bmw maybe a bit more on power over gas mileage.
but to me, the key is over previous generations, is it improving or not (in all aspect)
my friend's 335i can eat m3 already, but he's still managing about 20mpg mix driving. that's much better gas mileage than my previous is300, gs400, and sc430, and it has more power as well.
so i think technology is still advancing the right path. kind of the same when you look at the ls460. it has 380hp (quite a bit more than the ls430), but gas mileage is better. same with the is-f with even more power to spare
the hp is there and i have accepted the fact that everyone is at it, even lexus. don't tell me they are not, coz' they explicitly said that with the is-f, when they announced it, it's more hp than any of competitors. they are sucked into it as well. however lexus might be doing it a bit differently, meaning not as much focus on hp but maybe a bit more on emission or gas mileage. bmw maybe a bit more on power over gas mileage.
but to me, the key is over previous generations, is it improving or not (in all aspect)
04-23-08, 12:41 PM
#43
I see the points of Threxx and Sick/Sense4Miles.
If BMW can come out with a car that gets better gas mileage and better power, then there is nothing to criticize. If they up the competition in both of those areas, then the competition needs to up the game, not only in power but MPG as well. It can be done.
All of this considered, I don't think many of you realize just how good the 4.6L V8 is. Many of the GS and LS owners are getting almost 30MPG on the highway and roughly 25 combined. Those numbers are almost unheard of for a car with 380hp. Direct Injection and all of their other technologies have done a great job, and the next round of engines will receive Valvematic and Dual VVTL-i (or whatever it's called) which should again increase efficiency and power.
Bring on all the power that we can handle, but do so in a manner that is clean and efficient. If companies like Mercedes and Infinifi can't keep up with Lexus' efficient 3.5 and 4.6L engines, or BMWs turbo engines then that's just too bad. Owners are going to take note of EPA numbers and they'll be the ones hurting.
If BMW can come out with a car that gets better gas mileage and better power, then there is nothing to criticize. If they up the competition in both of those areas, then the competition needs to up the game, not only in power but MPG as well. It can be done.
All of this considered, I don't think many of you realize just how good the 4.6L V8 is. Many of the GS and LS owners are getting almost 30MPG on the highway and roughly 25 combined. Those numbers are almost unheard of for a car with 380hp. Direct Injection and all of their other technologies have done a great job, and the next round of engines will receive Valvematic and Dual VVTL-i (or whatever it's called) which should again increase efficiency and power.
Bring on all the power that we can handle, but do so in a manner that is clean and efficient. If companies like Mercedes and Infinifi can't keep up with Lexus' efficient 3.5 and 4.6L engines, or BMWs turbo engines then that's just too bad. Owners are going to take note of EPA numbers and they'll be the ones hurting.
04-23-08, 12:48 PM
#45
I see the points of Threxx and Sick/Sense4Miles.
If BMW can come out with a car that gets better gas mileage and better power, then there is nothing to criticize. If they up the competition in both of those areas, then the competition needs to up the game, not only in power but MPG as well. It can be done.
All of this considered, I don't think many of you realize just how good the 4.6L V8 is. Many of the GS and LS owners are getting almost 30MPG on the highway and roughly 25 combined. Those numbers are almost unheard of for a car with 380hp. Direct Injection and all of their other technologies have done a great job, and the next round of engines will receive Valvematic and Dual VVTL-i (or whatever it's called) which should again increase efficiency and power.
Bring on all the power that we can handle, but do so in a manner that is clean and efficient. If companies like Mercedes and Infinifi can't keep up with Lexus' efficient 3.5 and 4.6L engines, or BMWs turbo engines then that's just too bad. Owners are going to take note of EPA numbers and they'll be the ones hurting.
If BMW can come out with a car that gets better gas mileage and better power, then there is nothing to criticize. If they up the competition in both of those areas, then the competition needs to up the game, not only in power but MPG as well. It can be done.
All of this considered, I don't think many of you realize just how good the 4.6L V8 is. Many of the GS and LS owners are getting almost 30MPG on the highway and roughly 25 combined. Those numbers are almost unheard of for a car with 380hp. Direct Injection and all of their other technologies have done a great job, and the next round of engines will receive Valvematic and Dual VVTL-i (or whatever it's called) which should again increase efficiency and power.
Bring on all the power that we can handle, but do so in a manner that is clean and efficient. If companies like Mercedes and Infinifi can't keep up with Lexus' efficient 3.5 and 4.6L engines, or BMWs turbo engines then that's just too bad. Owners are going to take note of EPA numbers and they'll be the ones hurting.
but yes, i am definitely not discounting the 4.6 engine from lexus. please also don't forget about the 8 speed, imho that's the key to the gas mileage. 80mph at 2000 rpm, that brings you the smoothness, quietness, AND gas mileage.