MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I should have been clearer about the GS. I think/hope that the 4GS will have a 380 or 400HP version of the 4.6L and I would expect similar efficiency from that as well. Lexus has been keen on gas mileage all along, so hopefully it remains as part of their focus. At my dealership, we have one LS 460L owner averaging 29MPG!

kt22cliff

Now of course it would be great if 555i could put down 600hp while getting 40 miles per gallon. But BMW is a car company and BMW's first and probably only objective is to make cars they can sell more to people who buy BMW's and people who buy these type of cars don't really care about gas mileage therefore BMW doesn't really care about gas mileage.

EZZ

Then you have to apply the same criteria to ALL of the manufacturers. Lexus shouldn't have brought out the IS-F and Porsche should just go out of business.

My point is that BMW is listening to what THEIR consumers want and saying that fuel economy isn't it...its power that sells cars in that segment. If the consumers wants economy, they'd have bought a Lexus hybrid. Let the market place decide whats best for them. I bet the 555 outsells all its competition.

Threxx

Emissions are an absolute non-issue these days.

Fuel economy is becoming more of an issue, but as stated, it's still not that big of a deal to people buying this class of vehicle.. especially when we're talking a difference of 5-10% at best.

And then there's also the fact that this new motor from BMW most likely will have better mileage.

So again, it's really a non issue and I'm really ashamed that some of 'you people' act like this toward BMW when if Lexus had done the same thing this thread would be filled with 1/10th the pessimism and 10x the cheers.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Actually I think it is up to the consumers to do the right thing if you will. In our free market system (Unless you want to change the way our market system in the USA and around the world works) the business job is to put out a product at the lowest manufacturing cost and sell it at the maximum amount that customers are willing to pay for. Our job as a consumer is to buy the best product that we like at the lowest cost. If both business and consumer do their job, a equilibrium will be met. Therefore, if the consumers stop wanting and buying high HP expensive luxury cars, than the manufacturers will stop building them. If the consumers demand more fuel efficient cars and stop buying any car that has less then 30 MPG city, manufacturers will stop making those cars and introduce more fuel efficient cars.

Bottom line for me is the business and manufacturers duty is to make products that their customers want. One day in the future there will be a shift in balance and the majority of consumers will demand more fuel efficient cars. That may be swinging that way as we speak. When that day comes, we will all know it because nobody will be buying these types of cars and the manufacturers will stop making them. The fact is most of the people in the world and US are not at that point yet, thus everyone keeps buying high HP and lower fuel efficient cars.

RXSF

well if its up to consumers, then we're all screwed.

the thing is, its about being responsible, and the car maker should address some of the growing problems facing the earth. anything between 300 and 400 horsepower should satify the needs of most people

Sens4Miles

But when are you actually going to be able to use all of that power? We have speed limits. Granted, it's nice to have good passing power and good acceleration, but the power generated by today's standards in this class are more than sufficient and are already excessive. Why continue to add more excess and make these engines bigger and even more powerful when 99% of these buyers will probably never ever use the majority of it?


Well, it's one of the biggest, based upon their public perception as making high end sporty vehicles that generate a ton of power. They, like Infiniti keep raising the bar for the competition and it's almost forcing the others, namely Lexus, MB, & Audi, to increase their engine size, power, and displacement to "keep up" or else seem inferior. MB is just as guilty of doing this as well, but at least they have a ton of different fuel efficient vehicles coming out soon (40MPG S-Class for example) to at least offer that option to their customers.

There just has to be a limit to all of this. I'm not saying BMW and the others shouldn't offer high HP vehicles to the enthusiasts who want them. But this is a standard model V8 5 series we're talking about here. It's not an M.

doug_999

A surprising number of BMW owners take their cars to the track. Even those who don't (Doug raises hand) certainly do love the power even if I only get to really use it on an on-ramp. (edit: My 0-30 bursts going home are surprisingly very fun as well - I just love torque....)


I believe you have BMW and MB mixed up......It is MB with the AMG cars that put out the crazy hp, it is MB with the 5.5L engine in their SUVs, S-Class, and E-Class....

Sens4Miles

No, I don't have them mixed up. I realize MB plays the excessive displacement/power game as well, but overall MB has the most diverse lineup of any of them and seem (at least from my perspective) to be making a serious attempt these days at offering fuel efficient alternatives. The 5.5L engine is overkill and unnecessary, I agree, but when it was developed and brought to market, gas was cheaper and there wasn't as much an emphasis on fuel efficiency standards as there is today. BMW should not be playing the same game from 5 years ago. Things have changed and seem to be changing more so every single week. We'll see what this new 4.4Liter has to offer in terms of fuel efficiency. If it's significantly better than what the current model is getting, then great. But really, 400hp for the V8 model is more than enough. I know they want to "win" the HP wars, but eventually, the war must come to an end, no?

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

When do you actually use all 272hp in an ES350, or 380hp in the LS460? The original ES300 was able to get around with less than 200hp. As long as fuel economy is improved over its predecessor(s), I see no problem with power increase. We can't expect BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc to deliver 35mpg. If you wanted that, then you would buy a civic or a corolla..

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

The same could be said for Toyota's 5.7L V8. It's grown 1.0L over the old model with about 100hp more. We the 5.7L v8 because fuel economy is approximately the same as the older counterpart. Now what if this was the same case with BMW's 4.4L V8TT? Would you be okay with that?

Sens4Miles

Why would I buy a Civic or a Corolla when neither of them provide the quality, the refinement, and luxury ride that I'm used to? I think for these brands to automatically assume that all luxury car buyers want as much power as possible from their engines is a major oversight. I know Lexus doesn't look at it this way, which is why they're bringing out the hybrid next year. Just because I may have the money to go fill up my tank every other day does not mean that I necessarily want to. I'm not a street racer and I certainly wouldn't want to abuse my car and push it to its limits (granted, I realize that there are those who would).

I'm a perfect example of someone who wants sufficient power from their luxury sedan, but yet does not need or require it to go 0-60 in 5 seconds and only get 20mpg. The fact that I'm considering selling my GS for a Camry Hybrid in a few months should be proof that there is a serious demand out there right now for luxury car owners who want a nice looking fuel efficient sedan loaded with options that they are used to.

Lexus seems to be hearing the call, but are the others?

kt22cliff

Whether it's ok by Sens4Miles or GSteg or me or anyone else doesn't really matter. What matters is whether it's ok with people who are gonna buy these type of cars and until there are no more people buying these cars BMW MB or any car company would be stupid not to offer high HP cars.

I would say hypothetically if BMW offered 555i with engine option of new TT or older generation V8, the newer TT option will FAR outnumber among people who order the car to their spec not to mention all the stealor ordered ones will be in newer engine.

RX_330

No love for diesels?

kt22cliff

There are not enough people like you in the market places, certainly in USA despite crude at $120 and 93 octane gas hitting $4