flipspeed

if lexus put that camry hybrid powertrain in the ES and called it the ES 250h would you buy it? it would get 30+ mpg but it would only have 187 hp. it could be tweaked to make 200hp and make an even 30mpg to be more marketable.

Sens4Miles

Absolutely, in a heartbeat.

STIG

BMW makes something great and Lexus forum goes Banana.


Love it!

I think BMW should take a chill pill for a while and give sometime for others to catch up. It's killing everyone in the field and it's not that exciting anymore.

SLegacy99

Direct inject it and I'd be happy. I think it would sell great.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

That is exactly why you have multiple options. Well, maybe Lexus doesn't have as many options, but in the case of the BMW we are speaking of you can elect NOT to buy the 555i and perhaps buy the I6 528i version. Or, you can buy a 3 series. Or in the case of Mercedes, you don't have to buy the E550, but you can buy the E350, or go with the C class. So as we can see, most of the manufacturers are providing cars that have multiple engine options so if you don't want the 400-500 HP V8, get the V6 or I6 or even 4 cylinder equipped trim. That is the whole point of a luxury brand. To give everyone a lot of options and pick and choose what they want. It wouldn't be right for them to cater only to those people that want the best fuel economy and satisfied with the a certain HP range. What about the rest of the people that don't mind giving up a little MPG for that extra HP just because they want it? Should those people now be cut off?

Lexus may be hearing the call to these new segment of people like you who do want the max fuel economy and limited HP in the type of cars Lexus makes. Still though, there is a reason why a lot of us Lexus owners included have 2nd or 3rd cars from the other manufacturer. It is because they have what Lexus doesn't produce.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

It does meet that standard, but why is more hp too 'obsessive'? The goal is to be quicker and faster. Over the years, the car's weight has grown due to safety equipment and larger chassis. Stuff the same engine as the predecessor's into the new car and you're most likely going to be slower with a reduction in fuel economy. I bet you people back in the 1920s looked at 50hp the same way you're looking at 400hp. Soon enough, 400hp will be the norm, just like how it's not uncommon to have 300hp engines running around.

RON430

Man, it is hard to believe this thread is still going and drawing the comments it is. In case no one can keep two thoughts in their mind at the same time, BMW will most definitely not make the 555 the only 5 series available. There will be at least one and probably two sixes including that superb twin turbo one. And for all the pious souls who view BMW as the devil incarnate for inefficiency, you should spend some time in Europe. BMW diesels are extemely impressive. And where the GS450 may be in the mid 20s, the 530d with a twin turbo diesel was well into the 30s for the one I drove and never ran out of steam in the mountains.

Personally, I doubt that I am a buyer for the 555 but they developed the thing, might as well put it out there. But my next big car will almost certainly be either an Audi or BMW diesel if they get the doggoned things here in something other than the 3 or A4. Now, having said that, if I were to fault BMW and MB on spending too much time on hp it would be the lard factor. OK, so offer the big hp to the guys who not only want to pay the gas guzzler tax but feed it $5 gallon gas but the driving dynamics are getting away from everyone as they pork these things up. Spend some of that engineering time shedding a few pounds and you'll find better driving dynamics and fuel efficiency along the way.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Make it at least 200 HP or maybe a little more and I myself would buy it. Provided it cost less than a fully loaded ES350 since we are giving up nearly 100 HP compared to the ES350. My old 94 E300 had about 180 or so HP and I personally couldn't get up to speed fast enough for my taste merging into the higher speed freeway traffic. The 94 Accord and 95 Camry I have as well are much worse obviously. All my cars that had at least 200 HP I didn't have that much of an issue with it. 200HP seem to be a good everyday drivable HP number at least for my taste.

RON430

Put me down for one too. And I mean right now, today. With apologies to all you boyracer ES owners, I wouldn't buy an ES for any "performance" notions and to mention it in the same breath with the 555 is just laughable. But as for fuel efficiency, I am not impressed with the GS450, about the only thing that impresses me about the LS600 over the LS460 is the price. I tried the Prius and the Camry hybrid at our last auto shows and for me, a big guy with a bad back, neither was a viable alternative. But the ES is most definitely an option but, and don't tell anyone here, but while I can pretty much afford whatever I decide to buy, I prefer to buy something going forward that gets good mileage. I know it is hard to believe that anyone with enough bucks to drive whatever they want cares about fuel mileage, but there it is. I attribute Lexus not doing an ES hybrid to them having their collective head so far up their collective butt that their ears are stuck on their hemorrhoids. I am also very interested in the upcoming Lexus version that is rumored for the next gen Prius so they will have their own high mileage hybrid but with Lexus touches, by that I hope I mean comfort and Lexus service is an addiction.

Not sure what this has to do with the 555 but it seems to me that Lexus has at least three real customers from those who posted here that would be buyers for an ES hybrid. But, once again, while I may or may not be a customer for the 555, but I came really close to a new 535, BMW certainly can offer it. If it doesn't sell, they will not be the stupidest car company on the planet, they will just be caught up in skyrocketing oil prices and economic malaise. It will most certainly be able to rapidly show its taillights to any stock GS if such things are important to you. But BMW need to be very careful going forward, my prediction, which is based on nothing other than my own opinion, is that there will be less and less people who are going to de-emphasize fuel economy for hp bragging rights when they buy a vehicle. As for BMW putting their cars on a diet, the same applies, maybe even more so, to Lexus IMO. It is time to start backing off on the atomic powered iPod receptacles and ball bearing rear seats and offering cars that are not going to be featured on a version of "Biggest Loser" on Top Gear.

SLegacy99

I'd also take an ES400h. RXh powertrain, I gotta believe that would be good for 29/27ish. Perhaps better.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

The current ES is in that ballpark, so I would hope an ES 400h would be better. To be honest, I'm not sure as to why Lexus has not done this sooner?

Sens4Miles

But what if I don't want a 3 series or a 6 cylinder 5 series? Look, I just don't want to see the benefits of technology suffer across the board because the other brands are going to have to pump up their HP to 400 because all of a sudden that's "the new standard". Infiniti's upcoming 390HP 5.0 apparently won't be good enough anymore, because BMW just raised the bar again. Maybe Nissan should now increase the displacement to 6.0 to keep up

Sens4Miles

Well, if they worked on reducing the weight of their vehicles by investing in some advanced lightweight materials, that wouldn't be an issue. But instead they keep getting bigger and bigger and heavier and heavier.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Easier said than done. If it was that easy, everyone would have been doing this, even Kia. The problem with this is COST. Name a material that's stronger, lighter, and cheaper than aluminum. If there is one that's readily available, dont you think manufacturers would be using it by now? Sure make the vehicle out of titanium, carbon fiber, etc, but guess who's going to pay for the extra cost? The consumers. It's just not feasible right now.

doug_999

Wow, I don't think you have been watching BMW much. Like I said, search on Efficient Dynamics and you will see amazing things that BMW is doing. Many of them are only in Europe right now (for various reasons), but they are a company that is committed to making cars much more fuel efficient (just like Toyota is).

Here is one
http://www.technoride.com/2008/03/bm...us_in_econ.php
(please, I'm not trying to flame the Prius, I think it is a great car and it beat the prius in this test because of its bigger gas tank).

Many of the new Efficient Dynamics campaign are already on BMW cars here in the US (I have to assume that some of them were responsible for cars like the 550 not going down in EPA mpg estimates for 2008).