GS69

1st Drive: 2009 Acura TL

By Arthur St. Antoine

Give Acura credit: The automaker isn't doing the milquetoast design thing any more. The face of the redesigned, fourth-generation 2009 Acura TL four-door, sporting an inverted wedge of chrome in its mouth that stands out like a silver front tooth, won't slip down boulevards unseen. Nor will motorists driving behind miss the wide "V" of chrome where trunklid meets bodywork. You'll notice this new "emotion advanced" TL, all right.

Whether you cheer or spew raspberries, though, may well determine the fate of this hugely important Acura (in 2005, the well-received third-gen TL became America's best-selling luxury sedan and helped push the company's annual sales over the 200,000 mark for the first time). Thus far, the opinions around the MT water cooler have been...it would be charitable to call them "mixed."

Acura has done much tinkering under the skin, too. TL buyers, a loyal lot, expressed two primary wants for the new model: more rear-seat room and more performance. Though those objectives are seemingly at odds, Acura has delivered on both fronts-and more.

Wheelbase is up 1.4 inches, width grows nearly two inches, and overall length climbs by a whopping six inches. Yet overall weight, thanks to liberal use of high-strength steel plus aluminum for the hood and some suspension bits, climbs only modestly. Total cabin volume expands by more than a cubic foot; as intended, the new TL provides noticeably more rear-seat legroom than the outgoing car (Acura also claims the TL is the only car in its class that can fit a full-size family picnic cooler in the trunk). The structure proved its stuff in NHTSA and Insurance Institute for Highway Safety tests, too, earning five stars or top "good" ratings in all crash tests.

For now, the TL Type-S model disappears-but hold your groans. Acura has hardly turned down the wick. Fortified with a high-compression (yes, premium fuel), 3.5-liter VTEC V-6, the base, front-drive 2009 TL now delivers 280 horsepower at 6200 rpm-just six horses shy of the outgoing Type-S. And newly available is the most powerful Acura engine ever: a 3.7-liter V-6, based on the unit in the RL, with VTEC variable timing on the intake and exhaust valves (a first for a SOHC engine) that kicks out 305 horsepower at 6300 rpm and 275 pound-feet of torque at 5000. Torque steer, the TL knows not thy name: The 3.7-liter mill feeds a new SH-AWD model, with a variant of the torque-vectoring, yaw-controlling Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system previously seen in the likes of the RDX and RL.

Both engines mate to a five-speed automatic transmission with Sequential SportShift; paddle shifters lie at the ready just behind the steering wheel. No manual is available at launch, but Acura says the TL will offer one for 2010. Fuel economy estimates, especially in view of the power increases, look respectable: 18/26 city/highway mpg for the base car, 17/24 for the TL SH-AWD.

Inside the sculptural, "dual-cockpit" cabin awaits a feast of advanced technology, enough to make the commander of a Los Angeles-class submarine jealous. Among the goodies are an excellent eight-speaker audio system with six-disc changer and XM capability, Bluetooth phone connectivity, and-hoo-yah!-full iPod integration, including a conventional AUX jack plus a USB port that allows complete control (and charging) of your iPod through the audio system.

Add the optional Tech package (available on both models; Acura expects 75 of TL buyers to check "yes" on the order box) and you'll upgrade the audio to an awesome, 10-speaker, 440-watt Panasonic surround-sound system, designed with input from Grammy Award-winning producer Elliot Scheiner, that includes DVD-Audio and XM Satellite Radio and, when you insert a CD, automatically rips the tracks to an on-board 13-gig hard drive for future playback. Also included with the Tech option is one of the world's most advanced navigation systems. Acura has upgraded the eight-inch display to full VGA high-resolution. It's a thing of beauty; using the USB port, you can even upload your favorite pictures to display as onscreen wallpaper. Enhancing the standard navigation info, which now boots quickly off the on-board hard drive and even includes preloaded scenic drives, the system also features available XM-fed real-time traffic info, traffic rerouting (if the road ahead clogs, the nav will lead you to a clearer path), and a plethora of real-time weather information including forecasts and scrollable Doppler radar maps just like those you see on the evening news. If a thunderstorm or ice looms ahead, the TL will do its best to guide you around it. There's also a rearview camera in case you simply decide to flee in reverse.

Out on the road, the TL immediately impresses with its quiet; almost no wind noise intrudes. Steering feel is much improved, thanks to a new variable-assist electric power steering (EPS) system as seen on the NSX. The TL SH-AWD edition feels more responsive still, thanks to tighter EPS tuning, firmer springs and shocks, larger wheels and tires (standard 18s versus 17s on the base car), and the added kick of the unique all-wheel-drive system, which can actively speed up the outside rear wheel to help point the car into turns. For maximum grip, the TL SH-AWD offers optional 19-inch wheels with summer performance tires.

Larger brake rotors all around, plus two-piston calipers up front, put a stout squeeze on forward motion (the TL SH-AWD gets functional brake ducts in the front fascia). That motion is deceptive, too: While the TL SH-AWD doesn't feel exceptionally quick, perhaps due to the cabin's quiet and the engine's refinement, Acura says it simply runs away from the outgoing Type-S in racetrack lapping. You'll know precisely how quick the new car is as soon as we have a chance to strap on our digital test gear.

While exact pricing hasn't yet been announced, Acura expects the base TL to start at roughly $34,000 and a fully loaded TL SH-AWD to check out for about $42K. Acura hopes to sell 70,000 TLs (about 75 percent base cars) in the first year, starting now (the SH-AWD arrives in November). Yet with natural competitors like the Mercedes C-Class, Audi A4, Lexus IS, and Infiniti G35, the TL enters a battle in full pitch. The new car looks equipped to fare well, but we'll only know for sure once the TL faces its rivals in a comparison test. And shows its new face to the public's fickle eye for style.

2009 Acura TL
Base Price $34,000-$39,000 (est)
Vehicle layout Front-engine, FWD/AWD 5-pass, 4-door sedan
Engine 3.5L/280-hp/254 lb-ft SOHC 24-valve V-6; 3.7L/305-hp/275 lb-ft SOHC 24-valve V-6
Transmission 5-speed automatic
Curb weight (dist f/r) 3700-3900 lb (mfr)
Wheelbase 109.3 in
Length x width x height 195.3 x 74.0 x 57.2 in
0-60 mph 5.4-5.8 sec (MT est)
EPA city/hwy fuel econ 17-18/24-26 mpg (est)
CO2 emissions 0.93-0.99 lb/mile (est)
On sale in U.S. Currently

GS69

2009 Acura TL 1st Drive
As always, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. And so does ugly.

BY MICHAEL AUSTIN
October 2008

Let’s just get this out of the way. Yes, the beaky nose on the new Acura TL looks odd. Maybe it’s just the shock of a new look; maybe it really is weird-looking. We’ll need more time to gaze critically upon it before we decide. We can, however, testify that it looks better in the flesh than in photographs and that the rest of the TL’s angular, modern shape is assuredly handsome, especially in the pointed shape of the trunk. And while it might look odd, the car’s grille carries a familial resemblance to the rest of the Acura lineup. Puns aside, the TL stands out as the face of the brand. It spearheaded Acura’s sales resurgence in the late ’90s and remains Acura’s bestselling car.

The success of previous TLs centered on two aspects: a powerful V-6 engine and lots of standard equipment. The new TL predictably sticks to that playbook but adds another page with the addition of optional all-wheel drive. The standard TL’s V-6 gets a displacement enhancement from 3.2 liters to 3.5; power is up 22 horsepower to 280, and torque grows by 21 pound-feet to 254. Both numbers are, however, slightly lower than the output of the 3.5-liter in the old TL Type-S. The all-wheel-drive TL, dubbed SH-AWD and equipped with the same rear-wheel torque-splitting system found in the RDX and MDX, comes with a 3.7-liter engine rated at 305 horsepower and 275 pound-feet of torque. It’s basically the same powertrain as in the updated RL [C/D, September 2008], with variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing and lift all on a single cam. Both TL engines are mated to a five-speed automatic, which seems outdated in a segment where six and seven speeds are common. Visually, the SH-AWD model is differentiated by the functional front brake ducts next to the fog lamps, four exhaust tips at the rear, and 18- or 19-inch wheels and tires.

As before, the TL is based on the Accord, although this one doesn’t share any major dimensions with the Honda. Exterior dimensions are all bigger than the outgoing model’s, with length growing a full six inches, to 195.3. The bigger size doesn’t translate directly to the interior, though. The front seat is slightly smaller, while the rear seat is a little bigger (legroom is up 1.3 inches). Trunk space is bigger by just less than one cubic foot.

As for the rest of the Acura playbook, the TL still boasts an impressive amount of equipment. The Technology package, an option box that 70 percent of TL buyers are expected to tick, adds to a long list of standards: keyless entry and ignition, a 10-speaker ELS surround stereo with 12.7-gigabyte hard drive, and a navigation system. That nav boasts real-time traffic information, specific lane routing for multilane highways, and an industry-first Doppler radar weather-map feature.

The insides share a familiar look with other Acuras, but the multifunction controller **** and the bevy of buttons that surround it seem less confusing and cluttered than in the RDX. Material qualities are first-rate, and this car feels far more upscale than the previous one did.

Driving the TL back-to-back with its predecessor makes it clear that major improvements have been made, with one exception. Body motions are better controlled, road and wind noise have been all but eliminated, the brakes feel solid, and the TL corners with a more level attitude than its compliant ride would suggest. Torque steer, long a TL drawback, is far better managed. On the other hand, steering feel has lost the plot. The new TL uses electronic power assist, as opposed to the old hydraulic unit. It’s more precise on-center, but the old car’s steering was better weighted and offered much more feel.

Despite about 250 pounds of added weight, 32-percent-stiffer springs, and increased damping force, the SH-AWD rides better than the standard TL. The engine note is slightly throatier, and the handling is more responsive, too, thanks in part to optional 19-inch tires shod with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires.

Saleswise, this is Acura’s most important car, and even with prices holding steady (starting at about $35,000 and moving up to $42,000 for a loaded SH-AWD), it’s possible that potential buyers could be turned off by its funny face. Which is a shame, because everywhere else (except for the steering), the TL is the most focused and best executed car in Acura’s lineup.

LexFather

Acura continues to give their vehicles old or odd powertrains and engines, then stuff it with outsourced gear from Best Buy, wrapped in packages looking like C3P0 crap.

I am not impressed with an I-pod plug and super-Nav. Impress me with some new engines and trannies, you know the actual car.

You see the model tested and the Acura leg humpers are liking is the model that will be the least amount of sales, the SH-AWD loaded model. MOst will be base FWD TLs, where the package is less compelling.

The ES/IS interior are not sensational but aruguably best in class (let it be known the ES interior leaves me cold, I much prefer the last model). The Tl interior looks like an Accord interior on steroids.

The GS didn't sell well though, even though it was SUPERB. The L and LS model was the bulk of Legend sales. The GS hit 44k by the time it was replaced by the RL, which is a failure for 13 years now.

People are going to CRINGE when they see this car at dealerships along with a higher MSRP. I've said it all along, while WE might want RWD and AWD, the MARKET was fine with FWD and the previous TL, which sold 70k units plus its best years

Smooches
Acura
"Advance Ugly"

P.S- tell your buds that still talk about me on their cute forum I said hello....amazing they still talk about me

Maybe b/c I was RIGHT. lol

GS69

LeftLaneNews

Take the successful 2008 Acura TL, make all the performance upgrades that a tuner could desire, add a techno-geek’s dream package of technology and substitute an edgy grille to make sure everyone will recognize this car on the road and you’ve got the 2009 TL. Then increase the engine power and add all-wheel drive to create the SH-AWD (SH for “super handling”) that eclipses the Type S and you’ve got the second car in Acura’s new TL line-up. Leftlane’s drive on California’s coastal backroads north of San Francisco showed that the new TL is going to make a lot of previous TL owners very happy while allowing Acura to entice some performance sedan enthusiasts away from BMW.

Acura product planners said that extensive study of the “entry-luxury” market segment, coupled with focus group research with current TL owners, determined that the buyer targeted for the TL balances rational judgement with emotional reaction when evaluating an automobile – a logical but not particularly surprising deduction. In their effort to keep the TL as the “class-defining performance luxury sedan,” this owner definition meant simply that Acura had to improve every single attribute on the new model. From the numbers and a quick 150 miles in the new cars, we’d say they’ve succeeded.

What is it?
For the mainstream owner looking for a comfortable car with some luxury touches and an affordable price tag, Acura equips the new TL with a 3.5 liter front-wheel-drive VTEC engine producing 280 horsepower and 254 pound-feet of torque, an increase of over nine percent from the previous TL, linked to a paddle-controlled five-speed automatic transmission. Mileage is a reasonable 18 mpg city and 26 mpg highway.

For enthusiasts shopping for a performance sedan, Acura offers the SH-AWD, with a 3.7-liter V6 engine with variable valve timing (VTEC) producing a class-leading 305 horsepower and 273 pound-feet of torque. Incidentally, that’s the most powerful engine Acura has ever built.

Power gets to the wheels through a paddle-controlled five-speed automatic transmission and an electronically controlled all-wheel-drive system that can vary torque not only front-to-back but side to side to provide optimum power to each wheel in any type of driving maneuver.

What’s it up against?
Acura set the bar high by seeking to hold on to their existing near-luxury customers while going after the luxury sport sedan customer, compelling the designers and engineers to benchmark the new TL against not only the BMW 3-Series, Mercedes C-Class, Audi A4, Lexus IS/ES, and Infiniti G35, but also the larger 5-Series, E-Class, A6, GS, and M35. That’s a tough crowd to match when you want to stay near the $35,000 average TL purchase price of the previous model.

Nevertheless, the product planners believe they’ve achieved their goal. The qualitative evaluation scales of luxury and performance/emotional appeal that Acura presented show the new TL positioned beyond everything in the performance/luxury sedan category except the Audi A8 and BMW 7-Series.

Any breakthroughs?
When you set out to improve your previous offering and beat all your competitors on every luxury and performance attribute, you’d better come up with some major breakthroughs, and there is enough to talk about in the new SH-AWD, and even in the mainline TL that we’ll have to devote another article to the technology in these new cars.
Briefly, the next big things in both models can be found in the engine room, in the suspension, in the crash zones and in the center console.

Both engines benefit from advanced valve timing technology, which varies not only the intake timing, but also the exhaust timing, to balance acceleration and top speed capability with fuel economy.

To maintain handling confidence without sacrificing ride comfort, the TLs now incorporate a sophisticated multi-valve system in the shock absorbers that provides taut, level handling on tight corners with a softer valving to absorb bumps on straight sections, and improves the speed with which the shocks can respond to changing conditions.

Underneath the skin, Acura has improved the skeleton of the chassis to increase torsional rigidity while increasing crash zone responsiveness, which is earning them vaunted five-star ratings in front, side, and rear collision testing.

On the interior, the console has been redesigned to improve what Acura calls “intuitive technology” while incorporating a variety of standard and optional audio, communication, and navigation capabilities that compares favorably with any other car on the road today.

How does it look?
Acura says it was their intention to design the car to get attention, and they definitely succeeded, since the first views of the new car we showed you inspired heated discussion. This is clearly not the bland previous-generation Japanese styling that tried to appeal to everyone without offending anyone. Acura says their intention is to make sure that, with all the product advances they’re so proud of, the new TL will stand out on the road. To that end, it certainly does.

Their design goals, they say, were to create an impression of linear fluidity by designing smooth lines that flow without interruption from front to rear, and strong presence by using a high, well-defined shoulder line. But the most controversial aspects of the design are the hard, origami-like folded edges along the feature lines, which emanate from the flat, v-shaped surfaces of the signature Acura grille and culminate in a similar v-shaped form at the center rear of the car.

We’d only note that the folded-edge style is not new, having been introduced several years ago by Cadillac, so it isn’t likely to create any serious issues for Acura, except perhaps for some previous TL owners who might resist the idea of change.

With only a few subtle differences, both the base TL and the SH-AWD share the same lines. The only way to tell that the car in your rearview mirror or in front of you is the high-performance version is by the small brake ducts in the front fascia that replace the base car’s narrow driving lights, the dual tips in each of the two tail pipe outlets on the rear, and the tiny set of chrome initials on the trunk lid.

And inside?
On the inside, except for the slightly fatter steering wheel and stitched leather shift **** on the SH-AWD, the trim is identical between the two models. With high-quality materials of soft-touch vinyl and leather trim, accented with an attractive, pleasant-feeling metal composite material, the TL feels upscale and modern. We liked the choice of materials and the workmanship and definitely felt that the composite metal trim was superior to both the brushed aluminum and retro polished wood that are the typical cliches of most luxury car lines.

The front cabin has been sculpted to create two visually separate passenger spaces, divided by an imposing center console.

That console includes both a huge iDrive-style center **** and a huge array of separate buttons, apparently for every single controllable function in the car. About the only thing not on the console was a tape cassette slot, which Acura was still building into its 2008 models.

The center-stack design is perhaps the one feature in the car where Acura gets barely a passing grade in a class where Audi is the curve-breaker, Mercedes gets high marks for trim quality, BMW compromises between high style and convenience, and even Volvo comes through with elegant understatement. We’d like to say that the Acura design was superior to at least one of these competitors, but unfortunately, the best we can say is that the car has more electronic features than the competitors. To their credit, we were able to find many of the features without cracking the owners’ manual in our short few hours in the car.

Acura has excelled in the category of number, size, and placement of stowage spaces, a small, but nevertheless important detail to us, which becomes more significant on the longer journeys for which this car is suited. Neat little iPod and cell phone compartments are situated in the console near the plug-ins, and in the sides of the foot wells, and cup or bottle holders are placed not only in the center console – where they’re usually in the way – but in the door panels as well.

Acura excelled in interior space and comfort with the previous TL, and they’ve raised the bar by adding another inch to rear leg room and a fraction of an inch to rear shoulder room.
Given the comfort and space of the rear seat, we were amazed to find that the trunk is huge as well. We’re perfectly willing to believe that there would be no problem in fitting the four suitcases, or the four golf bags, or the full-sized cooler that the Acura’s press literature promises.

But does it go?
We love any excuse to get out on the two-lane coastal roads north of San Francisco when we’re in any car that promises good handling, so we were pleased to learn that our route would take us from Sausalito along Route 1 to Bodega Bay, where the intricacies of the curves are exceeded only by the breath-taking coastal scenery. After lunch at the north end of the route, we returned to home base through the redwood groves and cattle country just inland of the coastal hills.

For the morning drive, we drew one of the SH-AWD models, which was perfect for the tight curves and unexpected camber changes, and on the return run in the afternoon we settled back and enjoyed the standard TL’s comfort over the often rough, but straighter route. Over the 150 mile drive, we were able to experience the handling and performance features of both versions of the TL.

In the morning, whenever we got some space in traffic, we could enjoy the sensation of taking curves at invigorating speeds. The noteworthy feature of the SH-AWD was how competent it was when responding to an unexpected change in camber or curve radius. With most high-performance cars, even the new M3, when things change unexpectedly, you’ve got to be prepared to drive the car; though they are capable of handling issues that might arise, they don’t actually help the driver. In contrast, the modulated torque to each wheel in the SH-AWD actually pitches in to help you handle anything you encounter.

The other advantage of the SH-AWD is under the hood. Route 1 is notorious for slow sight-seeing traffic and sparse passing zones, so when opportunities did present themselves to make a pass, it was a simple matter to flick the paddle to downshift the car and then go from 40 to passing speed in a very short distance. At that point, the improved brakes were more than capable of slowing the car down to the typical 30-40 mph needed to take the next curve.

Both models share the same five-speed transmission, which sounds as if it wouldn’t match the smoothness of competitors’ six-speed auto boxes, but wider, and more balanced gear ratios probably explain why we found the transmission to be so smooth we could only tell it had shifted by watching the tach.

For those who wonder why Acura isn’t doing a TL Type S in the new line-up, the answer is that the SH-AWD already exceeds the S-Type’s performance in every dimension. (We’re pleased to say that those silly red circles on the dials and fake alloy pedals of the Type S are nowhere to be seen on the new high-performance TL.)

In the afternoon, we pretended we were out just to enjoy the scenery ourselves, and must say that the standard TL was well-suited to that task. Power and handling was more than adequate to handle highway merges as well as grades and descents through the hills.

What was really gratifying was the smoothness of the ride, which we had also noticed in the morning, since the two cars share the same suspension geometry and components. Current TL owners will be more than pleased when they trade in the old TL on this car, and if they comparison shop, they’ll be even happier.

Why you would buy it:
What’s not to like? With a price that’s promised to be between $35,000 and $42,000 (the TL is manufactured in Marysville, Ohio, which Acura doesn’t suffer from the exchange rate fluctuations that are hitting their European competitors hard), delivering a car that outstrips comparably priced cars hands-down in performance, handling, space, and comfort.

Why you wouldn’t:
No one is going to confuse the luxury touches in the cabin with the elegance offered by some competitors, and that excessively busy center stack with its plethora of push buttons just doesn’t say upscale like the rest of the interior does. And some near-luxury buyers have no desire to drive a car that has “look at me” written all over it, no matter how bold a presence it creates.

The TL will be on sale in September, and the SH-AWD on sale in November of this year. Look for official pricing to be released here in the coming weeks.

Words and Photos by Gary and Genie Anderson

SLegacy99

Well they're not going to win any fuel economy awards with these engines.

Ouch.

LexFather

Lol the most powerful engine Acura has built has 1 less hp than the IS 350

Acura is an understated brand, its not a true luxury brand so why the hell would anyone want a BOLD Acura. Its like saying "hey, I love shopping at K-mart". They should hve stuck to their nice designs, even if slightly bland that these things.

I cringe everytime I see the RDX, MDX or new TSX on the road. Yuck.

06TLDude

I know its killing you that the new TL is getting positive reviews.

LexFather

You mean mixed reviews?

There is no doubt the TL would be a good drive, even better in SH-AWD form. However outside of an optional SH-AWD system and maybe a cute high tech Nav system, this "new" car is class leading no where.

06TLDude

Mixed Reviews? I have yet to see a negative review of the new TL. Overall the automotive media likes the new TL with a few subjective complaints.

The TL doesn't need to be class leading in any category, it is the best blend of luxury and performance. This is why me and others have bought the TL.

Here's another positive review.
http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research....ection=reviews

pbm317

From Cars.com...


3.4 MPG! haha i know it's exaggerated by test drives, etc... but still, funny picture

UDel

The 2009 TL is getting positive to very positive reviews everywhere with only a few minor complaints like too many buttons in center console, front seats flatter then some would like, front end can be too much for some, and some missing the old hydraulic steering unit which was replaced with an electric unit to increase fuel economy.

I was disappointed when I first saw a few pictures of the TL while on vacation like many where but after seeing videos of it and some more multiple angles I am really starting to like it although I was still hoping for a different design that was not as big and heavy but that is unfortunately the trend these days and what most buyers are asking for. The interior is very good as usual and I really like the soft milano brown leather that is a new option. I wish their was more wood trim available besides that small area around the shifter on the base model but at least the metal trim is real and it looks very well done. I will reserve final judgement until I see it in person but I think it is a sharp looking car from what I am seeing even though it has a controversial grill. I saw the 09 RL a few weeks ago and it looks so much better in person then the pics and had a nice look to it although it would look much better if it was longer. I liked some details on the 09 refresh more then the current RL which I was suprised because I was not a fan at all when seeing the refresh on the internet. The 09 TSX looks much better in person and the grill does not bother me, it is a very nice looking car to me so I will hold final judgement on the RL until I see it in person. I have a feeling I will like the 09 TL much better when I see it in person and it is certainly not a boring or forgettable design and will be very successful for them.


http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research....ection=reviews
http://www.myride.com/review/2009_ac...140-page1.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130526
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articl...9-acura-tl.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRj-c7a2ksw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lGyT...eature=related
http://www.leftlanenews.com/acura-tl-review.html
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6989
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ing_specs.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4277456.html
http://www.automobilemag.com/new_and...iew/index.html

pbm317

Acura needs to step up with a 6+ speed automatic and a 6 speed manual option.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

But then not many look for such awards when buying a car.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Not sure if you were joking or serious (with the smiley) but this day in age I'd venture to disagree. Working at a Lexus dealership I can tell you that even people looking at LSs and GSs are concerned about gas mileage. Evidently those on the waiting list for the LX just don't care but even the crowd plunking down 70-80 Grand on a vehicle is starting to take note.

LexFather

Did I say negative? I said mixed, the car is not blowing anyone away except sheep. How the hell can something not be class leading but be the best blend of anything?

The last TL was tremendous, loved by all pretty much. This new one is loved by sheep who clearly have the eyesight of a shark.