2009 Acura TL thread (merged threads, painted beak)
09-26-08 | 08:31 AM
#466
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,545
Likes: 0
From: MO
Acura TL-shocking results according to Edmunds
The Sport Sedan Establishment Should Be (Slightly) Worried
The unceasing risk inherent to benchmarking your competition is that they have smart, creative folks all working just as hard to improve their products. The brass ring on the sport sedan ride is one of the most highly coveted in the world, and it's also the fastest-moving ride there is.
We've seen this pattern unfold before. But for right now, this prototype of the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD equipped with a close-ratio six-speed manual transmission is one of the most remarkable fast sedans we've ever driven, faster than all the big names in the sport sedan game. And yet it will face newer versions of the sport sedan elite that might appear before this 2010 model reaches the street next year.
A Day of Reckoning
We are compelled to admit that this was an Acura event that took place at a facility owned by Honda (overseen by the Transportation Research Center) with all the test cars supplied and prepped by Acura R&D. It's not exactly our usual comparison format, in other words. This was our opportunity to drive a prototype of the 2010 Acura TL Super Handling All-Wheel Drive six-speed manual transmission (SH-AWD 6MT), so Acura arranged some track time at its test facility near its U.S. engineering facility in Ohio, and a competitive set of sport sedans.
The competitor cars each featured a manual transmission, the sportiest configuration currently available, and aftermarket brake pads that would stand up to an afternoon on the racetrack. The cars included a 2008 Audi S4 Quattro manual; 2008 BMW 335i Sport; 2008 BMW 335xi Sport and a 2008 Infiniti G35s.
We'd go out, run one lap, two hot laps and one cool-down in lap. Then we'd come in and switch cars with our press colleagues and repeat until all five cars were sufficiently flogged. We repeated the round robin twice and were given the opportunity to revisit any two or three cars we thought we hadn't had enough time in.
The 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT kicked serious butt. And we're not talking tenths of a second on a 1.6-mile racetrack, but instead 2 seconds (a light-year on a short racetrack like this) separated the TL from the next quickest sedan, the Audi S4 Quattro, on the challenging Dynamics Handling Course. This Alan Wilson-designed, 13-corner course is a laboratory instrument, and it dissected the strengths and weaknesses of these five cars with an array of fast/slow, compressed/unweighted, opening/closing corners.
The Lab Results
We rapidly came to some conclusions. Here's how we ranked the cars after our testing.
1st Place: While the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT might not have the horsepower to keep up on the straight with any of these other sport sedans, it works best by far in the corners and made up time over its competition in speed at the apex and at the exit. At nearly every corner, the SH-AWD was so astute and intelligent that you could literally slap the go pedal to the carpet and let the all-wheel drive sort out how best to put the power to good use. And yes, these optional 245/40ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires (the largest and stickiest of any of the tires in the entire group) really help, but it was in combination with the SH-AWD where the rubber really made a difference. This car carves the corners.
2nd Place: While the 2008 Audi S4 Quattro would seem to hold an advantage by the sheer fact that it hangs a 340-hp V8 over its front wheels and offers the traction of all-wheel drive, it is hampered by stubborn understeer on the entry to slow and moderate-speed corners. The steering remained light and precise throughout the course, as did the feel of the light-effort clutch and shifter. The S4 was the only car here other than the TL that was able to put the power to the pavement before the apex of the corners — a real advantage thanks to all-wheel drive. Poor weight distribution keeps it from getting close to the TL.
3rd Place: The BMW 335i maintains its composure even when driven extremely hard, yet it feels surprisingly slow and out of place compared to the TL and S4. Of course, putting power down with just the rear wheels means the front wheels almost needed to be straight before the throttle could go all the way to the floor. The throttle response from its twin-turbo 300-hp inline-6 is only happy and snappy in the upper rpm range, and the steering feels indirect and slow in comparison. Great brakes, but this wasn't enough to make up the 2.7-second gap to the TL. It's just too slow to react.
4th Place: Hoping the BMW 335xi's all-wheel drive would allow the 3 Series to put its 300 hp to better use, we discovered that it only further snubbed the responses of the sedan. The steering became less direct, the throttle response grew worse and the understeer became more pronounced. The added weight of the car was obvious, especially in a high-speed corner with an apex at the crest of a hill.
5th Place: To be honest, the Infiniti G35s didn't even get a second drive in the comparison. From the second corner of the first hot lap, it was painfully obvious that the heavy effort and lurching response of the clutch pedal (it turns out they're all like this), the heavy-effort shift action and an inability to keep its rear tires hooked up on anything less than a dead-straight piece of track kept the G35s from being able to put up a good fight. On this track, it required constant vigilance just to keep the G35s on the pavement.
Bits & Pieces
As with the 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD we drove last month, the 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT features the most powerful engine Acura has ever offered in this 3.7-liter 305-hp V6 with an advanced version of iVTEC. It's linked to one of the most sophisticated all-wheel-drive systems known to man, but the big news here is that Acura has, for the first time, combined a manual transmission with its highly developed SH-AWD system.
The six-speed gearbox has been designed and built solely for this car. It's more than simply an evolution of the front-wheel-drive 2008 TL Type-S's six-speed, but instead a design that accommodates both the engine's impressive output as well as the additional complexity of all-wheel drive. Though its mainshaft and axle half-shafts have been beefed up to accommodate the V6's 273 pound-feet of torque, the manual transmission manages to be 110 pounds lighter than the five-speed automatic in the same car.
Even with the closely spaced ratios of this high-performance transmission, there's plenty of room beneath the V6's 6,700-rpm redline for a wide range of thrust in each gear. We expect the TL SH-AWD 6MT to return fuel consumption rates very close to those of the five-speed automatic, which are estimated at 17 mpg city and 25 mpg highway.
Shift action is light but precise, and the double- and triple-cone synchros never seem to mind being punished with quick shifts. Our only gripe here is that the clutch pedal doesn't offer enough information about when the clutch pack is about to bite.
Tuning With Electrons
The tuning for the car's electronic stability program, all-wheel-drive system, suspension action and steering have been brought up to the same level of accomplishment as the transmission. The SH-AWD's unique powertrain control module watches over everything from engine rpm and intake airflow to gear-ratio selection. Of course, we still shut off the uniquely tuned stability program for our lapping exercises.
Because the nose of the 6MT-equipped TL is nearly 90 pounds lighter than that of the automatic version, the engineers have tailored spring and damping rates to offer quicker and more precise turn-in characteristics. Overcook a corner entry, however, and understeer is as certain and pronounced as one would expect from a car with 58 percent of its weight over the front tires. If you've ever put a 12-pack of beer in the nose of a shopping cart then moved it to the rear, you'd know what a difference weight distribution makes.
The electric-assist power steering has been remapped to offer a more pronounced build-up in effort as the speed of the car increases, but even if some still consider the general feel to be light, we are huge fans of a low-friction feel as long as the overall effect is quick and precise like this. Because the electric motor is located on the steering rack itself rather than the steering column, there's good communication between the front tires and your hands.
The All-Wheel-Drive Future
All things considered, Acura has finally put its highly complex and effective SH-AWD system to its best use in the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT. This all-wheel-drive technology has always seemed a bit wasted in the MDX and RDX sport-utilities. It belongs in a sport sedan, and it has found a worthy home in the TL.
We also have to applaud Acura's determination to make its products more than just another premium-brand spin-off of an existing sedan. That's what makes Honda and Acura intriguing and forward-thinking carmakers. It's also what will make our job harder when it comes time to score what will be a very tight comparison test next year.
You see, this car won't get here for another year. And in the next 12 months, the BMW 3 Series will be released with improvements. And the Infiniti G37s will arrive with more power and hopefully more poise. And finally, Audi's S4 will undergo both a heart transplant with a turbocharged V6 and a new all-wheel-drive system.
We'll see who gets the brass ring on the carousel ride around Honda's test track next year.
The unceasing risk inherent to benchmarking your competition is that they have smart, creative folks all working just as hard to improve their products. The brass ring on the sport sedan ride is one of the most highly coveted in the world, and it's also the fastest-moving ride there is.
We've seen this pattern unfold before. But for right now, this prototype of the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD equipped with a close-ratio six-speed manual transmission is one of the most remarkable fast sedans we've ever driven, faster than all the big names in the sport sedan game. And yet it will face newer versions of the sport sedan elite that might appear before this 2010 model reaches the street next year.
A Day of Reckoning
We are compelled to admit that this was an Acura event that took place at a facility owned by Honda (overseen by the Transportation Research Center) with all the test cars supplied and prepped by Acura R&D. It's not exactly our usual comparison format, in other words. This was our opportunity to drive a prototype of the 2010 Acura TL Super Handling All-Wheel Drive six-speed manual transmission (SH-AWD 6MT), so Acura arranged some track time at its test facility near its U.S. engineering facility in Ohio, and a competitive set of sport sedans.
The competitor cars each featured a manual transmission, the sportiest configuration currently available, and aftermarket brake pads that would stand up to an afternoon on the racetrack. The cars included a 2008 Audi S4 Quattro manual; 2008 BMW 335i Sport; 2008 BMW 335xi Sport and a 2008 Infiniti G35s.
We'd go out, run one lap, two hot laps and one cool-down in lap. Then we'd come in and switch cars with our press colleagues and repeat until all five cars were sufficiently flogged. We repeated the round robin twice and were given the opportunity to revisit any two or three cars we thought we hadn't had enough time in.
The 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT kicked serious butt. And we're not talking tenths of a second on a 1.6-mile racetrack, but instead 2 seconds (a light-year on a short racetrack like this) separated the TL from the next quickest sedan, the Audi S4 Quattro, on the challenging Dynamics Handling Course. This Alan Wilson-designed, 13-corner course is a laboratory instrument, and it dissected the strengths and weaknesses of these five cars with an array of fast/slow, compressed/unweighted, opening/closing corners.
The Lab Results
We rapidly came to some conclusions. Here's how we ranked the cars after our testing.
1st Place: While the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT might not have the horsepower to keep up on the straight with any of these other sport sedans, it works best by far in the corners and made up time over its competition in speed at the apex and at the exit. At nearly every corner, the SH-AWD was so astute and intelligent that you could literally slap the go pedal to the carpet and let the all-wheel drive sort out how best to put the power to good use. And yes, these optional 245/40ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires (the largest and stickiest of any of the tires in the entire group) really help, but it was in combination with the SH-AWD where the rubber really made a difference. This car carves the corners.
2nd Place: While the 2008 Audi S4 Quattro would seem to hold an advantage by the sheer fact that it hangs a 340-hp V8 over its front wheels and offers the traction of all-wheel drive, it is hampered by stubborn understeer on the entry to slow and moderate-speed corners. The steering remained light and precise throughout the course, as did the feel of the light-effort clutch and shifter. The S4 was the only car here other than the TL that was able to put the power to the pavement before the apex of the corners — a real advantage thanks to all-wheel drive. Poor weight distribution keeps it from getting close to the TL.
3rd Place: The BMW 335i maintains its composure even when driven extremely hard, yet it feels surprisingly slow and out of place compared to the TL and S4. Of course, putting power down with just the rear wheels means the front wheels almost needed to be straight before the throttle could go all the way to the floor. The throttle response from its twin-turbo 300-hp inline-6 is only happy and snappy in the upper rpm range, and the steering feels indirect and slow in comparison. Great brakes, but this wasn't enough to make up the 2.7-second gap to the TL. It's just too slow to react.
4th Place: Hoping the BMW 335xi's all-wheel drive would allow the 3 Series to put its 300 hp to better use, we discovered that it only further snubbed the responses of the sedan. The steering became less direct, the throttle response grew worse and the understeer became more pronounced. The added weight of the car was obvious, especially in a high-speed corner with an apex at the crest of a hill.
5th Place: To be honest, the Infiniti G35s didn't even get a second drive in the comparison. From the second corner of the first hot lap, it was painfully obvious that the heavy effort and lurching response of the clutch pedal (it turns out they're all like this), the heavy-effort shift action and an inability to keep its rear tires hooked up on anything less than a dead-straight piece of track kept the G35s from being able to put up a good fight. On this track, it required constant vigilance just to keep the G35s on the pavement.
Bits & Pieces
As with the 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD we drove last month, the 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT features the most powerful engine Acura has ever offered in this 3.7-liter 305-hp V6 with an advanced version of iVTEC. It's linked to one of the most sophisticated all-wheel-drive systems known to man, but the big news here is that Acura has, for the first time, combined a manual transmission with its highly developed SH-AWD system.
The six-speed gearbox has been designed and built solely for this car. It's more than simply an evolution of the front-wheel-drive 2008 TL Type-S's six-speed, but instead a design that accommodates both the engine's impressive output as well as the additional complexity of all-wheel drive. Though its mainshaft and axle half-shafts have been beefed up to accommodate the V6's 273 pound-feet of torque, the manual transmission manages to be 110 pounds lighter than the five-speed automatic in the same car.
Even with the closely spaced ratios of this high-performance transmission, there's plenty of room beneath the V6's 6,700-rpm redline for a wide range of thrust in each gear. We expect the TL SH-AWD 6MT to return fuel consumption rates very close to those of the five-speed automatic, which are estimated at 17 mpg city and 25 mpg highway.
Shift action is light but precise, and the double- and triple-cone synchros never seem to mind being punished with quick shifts. Our only gripe here is that the clutch pedal doesn't offer enough information about when the clutch pack is about to bite.
Tuning With Electrons
The tuning for the car's electronic stability program, all-wheel-drive system, suspension action and steering have been brought up to the same level of accomplishment as the transmission. The SH-AWD's unique powertrain control module watches over everything from engine rpm and intake airflow to gear-ratio selection. Of course, we still shut off the uniquely tuned stability program for our lapping exercises.
Because the nose of the 6MT-equipped TL is nearly 90 pounds lighter than that of the automatic version, the engineers have tailored spring and damping rates to offer quicker and more precise turn-in characteristics. Overcook a corner entry, however, and understeer is as certain and pronounced as one would expect from a car with 58 percent of its weight over the front tires. If you've ever put a 12-pack of beer in the nose of a shopping cart then moved it to the rear, you'd know what a difference weight distribution makes.
The electric-assist power steering has been remapped to offer a more pronounced build-up in effort as the speed of the car increases, but even if some still consider the general feel to be light, we are huge fans of a low-friction feel as long as the overall effect is quick and precise like this. Because the electric motor is located on the steering rack itself rather than the steering column, there's good communication between the front tires and your hands.
The All-Wheel-Drive Future
All things considered, Acura has finally put its highly complex and effective SH-AWD system to its best use in the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT. This all-wheel-drive technology has always seemed a bit wasted in the MDX and RDX sport-utilities. It belongs in a sport sedan, and it has found a worthy home in the TL.
We also have to applaud Acura's determination to make its products more than just another premium-brand spin-off of an existing sedan. That's what makes Honda and Acura intriguing and forward-thinking carmakers. It's also what will make our job harder when it comes time to score what will be a very tight comparison test next year.
You see, this car won't get here for another year. And in the next 12 months, the BMW 3 Series will be released with improvements. And the Infiniti G37s will arrive with more power and hopefully more poise. And finally, Audi's S4 will undergo both a heart transplant with a turbocharged V6 and a new all-wheel-drive system.
We'll see who gets the brass ring on the carousel ride around Honda's test track next year.
09-26-08 | 08:52 AM
#469
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,710
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
I just reviewed the FWD version a couple of days ago and was pretty impressed with the chassis....obviously, the SH-AWD will only make it that much better. But, in the brochure and literature, Acura doesn't list 6MT availability, only the 5-speed Sequential-shift automatic. perhaps, in lieu of this article, that will change.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-26-08 at 11:28 AM.
09-26-08 | 09:00 AM
#470
the manual TL is a prototype for now and they plan to release it 2010. Its already been announced in a press release
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/news/20...d_Manual.shtml
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/news/20...d_Manual.shtml
PRESS RELEASE
09/26/2008 - TORRANCE, Calif. -
By adding an available manual transmission to the TL SH-AWD model, Acura will further up its game for performance minded TL drivers who prefer the winding route over the direct route, Acura announced today. Available next fall for the 2010 model year, will be a TL SH-AWD with 6-speed manual transmission and numerous modifications to enhance vehicle dynamics.
"The new manual transmission equipped TL SH-AWD really allows the enthusiast driver to take full advantage of the performance of Acura's SH-AWD system," said **** Colliver, executive vice president of sales, "Not only is the new manual transmission model the best performing Acura TL ever, it is the top handling performer among every vehicle in its class."
The availability of a 6-speed manual transmission for the 2010 TL SH-AWD represents the first time Acura has ever paired its acclaimed Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system with a manual gearbox. In addition, the new close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission is approximately 110 lbs lighter than the Sequential SportShift automatic transmission to further benefit acceleration, braking and cornering.
The 6-speed manual transmission is an all-new design that is substantially stronger than the previous generation TL manual transmission. In addition to using a more rigid aluminum case and heavier-duty internals, the new manual transmission employs precisely selected gear ratios based on the characteristics of the TL's new 3.7L V-6 engine and SH-AWD drivetrain. New gear synchronizers deliver improved shift accuracy and feel, and a short-throw shifter assembly generates confident shifting combined with low shift effort.
09/26/2008 - TORRANCE, Calif. -
By adding an available manual transmission to the TL SH-AWD model, Acura will further up its game for performance minded TL drivers who prefer the winding route over the direct route, Acura announced today. Available next fall for the 2010 model year, will be a TL SH-AWD with 6-speed manual transmission and numerous modifications to enhance vehicle dynamics.
"The new manual transmission equipped TL SH-AWD really allows the enthusiast driver to take full advantage of the performance of Acura's SH-AWD system," said **** Colliver, executive vice president of sales, "Not only is the new manual transmission model the best performing Acura TL ever, it is the top handling performer among every vehicle in its class."
The availability of a 6-speed manual transmission for the 2010 TL SH-AWD represents the first time Acura has ever paired its acclaimed Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system with a manual gearbox. In addition, the new close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission is approximately 110 lbs lighter than the Sequential SportShift automatic transmission to further benefit acceleration, braking and cornering.
The 6-speed manual transmission is an all-new design that is substantially stronger than the previous generation TL manual transmission. In addition to using a more rigid aluminum case and heavier-duty internals, the new manual transmission employs precisely selected gear ratios based on the characteristics of the TL's new 3.7L V-6 engine and SH-AWD drivetrain. New gear synchronizers deliver improved shift accuracy and feel, and a short-throw shifter assembly generates confident shifting combined with low shift effort.
09-26-08 | 09:17 AM
#471
No doubt the TL will be quick around a track, but I wont give too much credit to this 'test'. Honda supplied the cars, and the TL was in the prototype stage. Had Audi, BMW, or infiniti set up this test, the results would have been less bias. Who knows what Honda did to those cars. However I really do hope this becomes reality because at least there will be some kind of incentive to buy the car, other than for its looks 
09-26-08 | 09:57 AM
#472
Guest
Posts: n/a
So a pre-production car that won't be sold for a year vs cars supplied by Honda.
SCI previewed it, said it had a nice interior, drove well wrapped in one ugly body. They suggested the G35 over it if the price hit(s) 40k or higher.
I agree. Its just too big to be A4/3 competiton. Its damn near in its own lil segment.
I never doubted the ability of SH-AWD, they just put it in cars and SUVs that do not attract the enthusiast. The TL has a few enthusiasts but I fear that big ugly exterior is going to scare away tons of people, including the Honda faithful.
SCI previewed it, said it had a nice interior, drove well wrapped in one ugly body. They suggested the G35 over it if the price hit(s) 40k or higher.
I agree. Its just too big to be A4/3 competiton. Its damn near in its own lil segment.
I never doubted the ability of SH-AWD, they just put it in cars and SUVs that do not attract the enthusiast. The TL has a few enthusiasts but I fear that big ugly exterior is going to scare away tons of people, including the Honda faithful.
09-26-08 | 09:59 AM
#473
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,474
Likes: 2
From: Tennessee
It seems REALLY strange that Edmunds found the 335i to lack torque.
The 335i's torque curve is a thing of beauty and simply something impossible to come close to matching without the use of turbos or very large displacement with torque bias in the initial cam phasing.
It really really makes me wonder what Honda might have done to tune down the 335i because we all know that Acura's motors have never been known for their torque and even the other initial reviews of the 2009 TL have specifically stated it's a fairly peaky sort of engine with not much grunt down low.
The 335i's torque curve is a thing of beauty and simply something impossible to come close to matching without the use of turbos or very large displacement with torque bias in the initial cam phasing.
It really really makes me wonder what Honda might have done to tune down the 335i because we all know that Acura's motors have never been known for their torque and even the other initial reviews of the 2009 TL have specifically stated it's a fairly peaky sort of engine with not much grunt down low.
09-26-08 | 10:12 AM
#474
Guest
Posts: n/a
^^^ Good point.
Also I think this is a PR stunt, as reactions to the TL have been poor. Mini-Reviews thus far have been good but people simply hate the exterior for the most part and this car has NO buzz whatsover.
Seems Acura needed to do something to keep people interested and Edmunds, who couldn't write about a magic marker, were the perfect morons to use.
They have this great SH-AWD system and put it in vehicles that makes everyone scratch their heads.
Also I think this is a PR stunt, as reactions to the TL have been poor. Mini-Reviews thus far have been good but people simply hate the exterior for the most part and this car has NO buzz whatsover.
Seems Acura needed to do something to keep people interested and Edmunds, who couldn't write about a magic marker, were the perfect morons to use.
They have this great SH-AWD system and put it in vehicles that makes everyone scratch their heads.
something fishy here..
09-26-08 | 11:00 AM
#476
Rookie
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
out of curiosity though ..
When companies supplies competitor's car to test it against their own, do they tend to tweak the competitors? I could see that they would provide a premum one instead of one that provide sport package, but other than that, do they do anything else? If they do are any got caught tweaking competitor's car to make their's looks better .. ??
just wonder that's all.
When companies supplies competitor's car to test it against their own, do they tend to tweak the competitors? I could see that they would provide a premum one instead of one that provide sport package, but other than that, do they do anything else? If they do are any got caught tweaking competitor's car to make their's looks better .. ??
just wonder that's all.
09-26-08 | 11:28 AM
#477
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,474
Likes: 2
From: Tennessee
out of curiosity though ..
When companies supplies competitor's car to test it against their own, do they tend to tweak the competitors? I could see that they would provide a premum one instead of one that provide sport package, but other than that, do they do anything else? If they do are any got caught tweaking competitor's car to make their's looks better .. ??
just wonder that's all.
When companies supplies competitor's car to test it against their own, do they tend to tweak the competitors? I could see that they would provide a premum one instead of one that provide sport package, but other than that, do they do anything else? If they do are any got caught tweaking competitor's car to make their's looks better .. ??
just wonder that's all.
09-26-08 | 11:39 AM
#478
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,710
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Well manufacturers supplying tweaked cars or at least factory 'ringers' (the best performing ones off the assembly line) to be tested by the magazines is something that has gone on in the past and likely still goes on today. So I wouldn't be surprised if the inverse happened with manufacturers tuning down the competition's cars... it's even less risky in that environment because you haven't "given" any car to anybody to test out... they keep them all on a short leash.
And Acura may have repeated the mistake that Lexus and Infiniti made in 2001-2002 by not including a manual-transmission option when the first IS300 and G35 models were first introduced. We had to wait at least a year to see them. Now it's Deja Vu again at Acura.
I myself don't care much about manuals....though I sometimes drive and review cars with them, they are not well-suited for the driving conditions we have here in the D.C. area. But, I'm thinking not just of myself, but of those who DO have driving conditions more suited for manuals, and want them.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-26-08 at 11:45 AM.
09-26-08 | 01:27 PM
#479
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,882
Likes: 1
From: Coral Springs, Fl
SH-AWD in the Acura is amazing. But, I think Acura is using it in the Type-S for one reason only, and it's NOT to please enthusiasts. IMO, it's being used simply because 300HP will easily overpower its FWD layout. If Acura could build a 300HP Type-S with FWD and make it managable, they would.
09-28-08 | 12:05 PM
#480
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,274
Likes: 296
From: ------
Here are some more reviews of the TL 6 speed manual, it seems it is not a done deal whether it will go into production yet as management has to be convinced the small percentage of enthusiast buyers will be worth the money and effort.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7120
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ual/index.html
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
It looks to be a outstanding performance sedan and beating all those powerful top Euro/Japanese rwd/awd sports sedans around the track is amazing especially with the 6speed TL being a pre production model and not yet fully tuned and tested and some of those sports sedans had more hp, more torque, bigger engines, and were lighter. The reviewers were extremely impressed by it and I hope Acura brings it to production but it does seem a little big and a bit too luxurious to be had with a normal manual transmission, I would rather have seen some kind of amazing DSG type transmission to be offered with the new TL as I think that fits it a little better. Honda/Acura certainly know how to do fantastic manual transmissions and it clearly shows in this model as well as others.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7120
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ual/index.html
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
It looks to be a outstanding performance sedan and beating all those powerful top Euro/Japanese rwd/awd sports sedans around the track is amazing especially with the 6speed TL being a pre production model and not yet fully tuned and tested and some of those sports sedans had more hp, more torque, bigger engines, and were lighter. The reviewers were extremely impressed by it and I hope Acura brings it to production but it does seem a little big and a bit too luxurious to be had with a normal manual transmission, I would rather have seen some kind of amazing DSG type transmission to be offered with the new TL as I think that fits it a little better. Honda/Acura certainly know how to do fantastic manual transmissions and it clearly shows in this model as well as others.