2009 Acura TL thread (merged threads, painted beak)
11-07-08, 03:28 AM
#556
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11-08-08, 07:05 PM
#557
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Point is, here on CL the previous-gen TL WAS more positively regarded than the new generation.
11-12-08, 10:32 PM
#558
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http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...opanel..1.*#10
Its odd b/c Acura did address what previous TL owners wanted. More power and RWD or AWD.
So they offer them more power, AWD but also make the car huge, ugly, heavier with more tech.
Its almost like its aimed at a different buyer/demographic. I saw a burgundy one today on a podium when I was driving by an Acura dealer on the way to pick up my BBS wheel and its utterly disgusting.
A shame.
Performance is just average for a new vehicle in this segment.
In our testing, the '09 front-wheel-drive TL cranked off a 6.7-second run to 60 mph (6.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like at a drag strip). Because of its additional weight, the higher-performance, higher-horsepower all-wheel-drive TL SH-AWD model is no quicker and indeed returns identical numbers. These acceleration figures put the TL between the Lexus IS 250 (7.5 seconds to 60 mph even with a manual transmission) and the IS 350 (5.3 seconds to 60 mph). It's quicker than the new Audi A4 3.2 (6.9 seconds to 60 mph), but not as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C350 (around 6.0 seconds to 60 mph) or a Cadillac CTS with the direct-injection V6 (6.3 seconds to 60 mph). It is utterly annihilated by the Infiniti G37 sedan (5.4 seconds to 60 mph) and the BMW 335i (5.2 seconds to 60 mph).
Still Not Silly-Looking
As ever, the 2009 Acura TL is a weird bird in the entry luxury segment. It's a large front-drive V6-powered sedan, similar in performance and price to the Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV. But Acura is the corporation's luxury or rather premium nameplate, putting it in de facto competition with the Infiniti G37. It's a brand that's never really been pitched as a full-on luxury brand competing with the Germans. Instead, it's operated (most successfully) as a sensible step up from the sensible Honda models. Despite the redesign for the TL, this positioning hasn't changed for 2009.
[B]And the TL is an even weirder bird than the lovely outgoing model because it has a large metallic squid beak on the front of the car. Whoops. We mean a broken buck tooth. No. What we mean is that the TL looks like what Pontiac designers of five years ago thought the
Its odd b/c Acura did address what previous TL owners wanted. More power and RWD or AWD.
So they offer them more power, AWD but also make the car huge, ugly, heavier with more tech.
Its almost like its aimed at a different buyer/demographic. I saw a burgundy one today on a podium when I was driving by an Acura dealer on the way to pick up my BBS wheel and its utterly disgusting.
A shame.
Performance is just average for a new vehicle in this segment.
In our testing, the '09 front-wheel-drive TL cranked off a 6.7-second run to 60 mph (6.4 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like at a drag strip). Because of its additional weight, the higher-performance, higher-horsepower all-wheel-drive TL SH-AWD model is no quicker and indeed returns identical numbers. These acceleration figures put the TL between the Lexus IS 250 (7.5 seconds to 60 mph even with a manual transmission) and the IS 350 (5.3 seconds to 60 mph). It's quicker than the new Audi A4 3.2 (6.9 seconds to 60 mph), but not as quick as a Mercedes-Benz C350 (around 6.0 seconds to 60 mph) or a Cadillac CTS with the direct-injection V6 (6.3 seconds to 60 mph). It is utterly annihilated by the Infiniti G37 sedan (5.4 seconds to 60 mph) and the BMW 335i (5.2 seconds to 60 mph).
Still Not Silly-Looking
As ever, the 2009 Acura TL is a weird bird in the entry luxury segment. It's a large front-drive V6-powered sedan, similar in performance and price to the Nissan Maxima 3.5 SV. But Acura is the corporation's luxury or rather premium nameplate, putting it in de facto competition with the Infiniti G37. It's a brand that's never really been pitched as a full-on luxury brand competing with the Germans. Instead, it's operated (most successfully) as a sensible step up from the sensible Honda models. Despite the redesign for the TL, this positioning hasn't changed for 2009.
[B]And the TL is an even weirder bird than the lovely outgoing model because it has a large metallic squid beak on the front of the car. Whoops. We mean a broken buck tooth. No. What we mean is that the TL looks like what Pontiac designers of five years ago thought the
11-12-08, 11:13 PM
#559
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^^^^Here are some more parts from the rest of the article:
What Works:
Superb ride and handling compromise; convenience technology that comes out the wazoo and also works well.
Bottom Line:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this brilliant sporty sedan — other than the obvious.
That Acura managed its super-sizing — both in terms of engine displacement and dimensions — while maintaining the same EPA fuel economy numbers as the smaller, less powerful TL (18 mpg city/26 mpg highway) is no small feat, certainly considering that the car uses the same five-speed automatic transaxle as before.
At $39,445 with every possible convenience feature a sensible person could want and then a few more, the TL represents something of value in this class. Also, if lots of interior volume and a price tag at or below $40,000 are prerequisites, several of the TL's competitors won't make the cut.
Our early drive in the car on Southern California's indomitable expressway system had us believing that Acura had more or less given up on the sporty aspect of this model. It rides beautifully on its modified Accord platform; this is one benefit of the longer wheelbase. The suspension is tuned beautifully, returning quite good body control without suffering the freeway hop that's a by-product of Los Angeles' aging freeways. The ride is supple enough that we were almost prepared to forgive Acura for trading the car's handling moves in return for it.
A night run down Angeles Forest Highway convinced us that no such forgiveness was necessary. The big TL casually and confidently attempts to outrun its headlights. We did not keep up with the BMW 135i that was apparently being driven straight out of Hell. But then, we wouldn't have been able to match that lunatic even if we had been driving an identical 135i.
Our TL wore all-season, 17-inch (245/50R17) Michelin tires that delivered a middling 0.83g on the skid pad. For comparison, a TL SH-AWD with sticky 19-inch Michelin Pilot PS2s will generate 0.93g and a Infiniti G37 with 18-inch Bridgestone Potenzas posts 0.91g. But we tell you, when you're out driving on that dark, swaying ribbon in the mountains, ultimate grip is a less critical parameter than how progressively and smoothly those grip limits are revealed.
The TL responded beautifully to steering inputs (using an electrically boosted system, no less). It takes a set early in a corner and tracks faithfully through with little to no steering corrections. For its size, weight distribution and modest tires, the TL is a pretty remarkable handler. The five-speed automatic might be down a gear compared to many competitors' automatics, but it remains a faithful ally, snapping off clean shifts.
Acura throws in a GPS-linked, solar-sensing adaptive climate control system with humidity control. We're not sure we need quite this level of technology in our climate system, but we note that we were quite comfortable.
Broadly speaking, we were comfortable with the whole of the interior, even if it is, in places, as overstyled as the exterior. Even the bewildering mass of buttons and ***** on the center stack fairly quickly came to make sense to us. Once you realize that each function (climate control, navigation, audio, etc.) has its controls clustered in its own territory.
Oh, forget it. The TL is a lovely car.
Overall seems like Edmunds liked the FWD version even though it wasn't the best performing one. 
What Works:
Superb ride and handling compromise; convenience technology that comes out the wazoo and also works well.
Bottom Line:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this brilliant sporty sedan — other than the obvious.
That Acura managed its super-sizing — both in terms of engine displacement and dimensions — while maintaining the same EPA fuel economy numbers as the smaller, less powerful TL (18 mpg city/26 mpg highway) is no small feat, certainly considering that the car uses the same five-speed automatic transaxle as before.
At $39,445 with every possible convenience feature a sensible person could want and then a few more, the TL represents something of value in this class. Also, if lots of interior volume and a price tag at or below $40,000 are prerequisites, several of the TL's competitors won't make the cut.
Our early drive in the car on Southern California's indomitable expressway system had us believing that Acura had more or less given up on the sporty aspect of this model. It rides beautifully on its modified Accord platform; this is one benefit of the longer wheelbase. The suspension is tuned beautifully, returning quite good body control without suffering the freeway hop that's a by-product of Los Angeles' aging freeways. The ride is supple enough that we were almost prepared to forgive Acura for trading the car's handling moves in return for it.
A night run down Angeles Forest Highway convinced us that no such forgiveness was necessary. The big TL casually and confidently attempts to outrun its headlights. We did not keep up with the BMW 135i that was apparently being driven straight out of Hell. But then, we wouldn't have been able to match that lunatic even if we had been driving an identical 135i.
Our TL wore all-season, 17-inch (245/50R17) Michelin tires that delivered a middling 0.83g on the skid pad. For comparison, a TL SH-AWD with sticky 19-inch Michelin Pilot PS2s will generate 0.93g and a Infiniti G37 with 18-inch Bridgestone Potenzas posts 0.91g. But we tell you, when you're out driving on that dark, swaying ribbon in the mountains, ultimate grip is a less critical parameter than how progressively and smoothly those grip limits are revealed.
The TL responded beautifully to steering inputs (using an electrically boosted system, no less). It takes a set early in a corner and tracks faithfully through with little to no steering corrections. For its size, weight distribution and modest tires, the TL is a pretty remarkable handler. The five-speed automatic might be down a gear compared to many competitors' automatics, but it remains a faithful ally, snapping off clean shifts.
Acura throws in a GPS-linked, solar-sensing adaptive climate control system with humidity control. We're not sure we need quite this level of technology in our climate system, but we note that we were quite comfortable.
Broadly speaking, we were comfortable with the whole of the interior, even if it is, in places, as overstyled as the exterior. Even the bewildering mass of buttons and ***** on the center stack fairly quickly came to make sense to us. Once you realize that each function (climate control, navigation, audio, etc.) has its controls clustered in its own territory.
Oh, forget it. The TL is a lovely car.
Last edited by DrUnBiased; 11-12-08 at 11:20 PM.
11-13-08, 07:16 AM
#560
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Another Edmunds review, another article full of contradictions 
.
So the car is lovely, brilliant, and has "nothing wrong with it" except the styling ... but then Edmunds admits the car has mediocre brakes. Great job Edmunds on another foolish contradiction. For the "what needs work" section, the brakes should have been listed.
Also if the car is so "brilliant", how come it has only merely average acceleration numbers? The problem with the TL, and this is a problem for some buyers, is that it does a lot of things well, but the TL does nothing exceptionally well. The TL in other words excels at nothing.
What's worse is that you can't even call the new TL the "sensible choice", not with styling like that. The last-gen TL was a sensible choice, but the same can't be said about the new TL and it's gaudy, borderline insulting styling. It just doesn't look sensible. The conflicted nature of the new TL seems to be a reflection of the internal conflict going on at Honda.
Also nobody has posted this, but here is a second opinion from an Edmunds editor:
That pretty much sums up what a lot of people think of Acura and the new TL.
.
Originally Posted by Edmunds
Bottom Line:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this brilliant sporty sedan — other than the obvious.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this brilliant sporty sedan — other than the obvious.
Originally Posted by Edmunds
Indeed, continued the boss men, it would be helpful to no one to simply tee off on what is a truly lovely car in every way except the one judged by human eyes.
Originally Posted by Edmunds
Our only quibble with the car's back road performance is its less-than-exceptional brakes. They're better in hard running than the 122-foot 60-mph-to-0 panic stop test figure indicates (the tires are a factor here), but they are the weakest link in the TL's dynamic performance
Also if the car is so "brilliant", how come it has only merely average acceleration numbers? The problem with the TL, and this is a problem for some buyers, is that it does a lot of things well, but the TL does nothing exceptionally well. The TL in other words excels at nothing.
What's worse is that you can't even call the new TL the "sensible choice", not with styling like that. The last-gen TL was a sensible choice, but the same can't be said about the new TL and it's gaudy, borderline insulting styling. It just doesn't look sensible. The conflicted nature of the new TL seems to be a reflection of the internal conflict going on at Honda.
Also nobody has posted this, but here is a second opinion from an Edmunds editor:
Originally Posted by Edmunds
Inside Line Executive Editor Michael Jordan says:
The Acura design studio opened in May 2007, a $15 million facility on the campus of American Honda in Torrance, California. We walked the floor, admiring the innovative layout of parallel lines for the development of styling bucks for interior and exterior treatments. Jon Ikeda, the studio manager, explained that the arrangement would foster closer cooperation between designers.
Trained at the Art Center College of Design, Ikeda had been at Honda long enough to have personally met Soichiro Honda, the wild man who turned his fascination for fast cars and adventurous women into a car company that understands the spirit of practical transportation like no other. Ikeda told us that this new design studio would make Acura independent of Honda at last, helping the division finally achieve the promise it showed when it became the first prestige division of any Japanese car company back in 1986. The trouble was, every concept and production car on the floor of the Acura design studio was ugly.
For years Acura has been a kind of me-too car company when it comes to style, chasing various European or Japanese rivals in some kind of twisted game of musical chairs until the music would stop and it would be forced to sit in the ugly chair. An Acura has looked like an Accord with body cladding, a Lexus, a lozenge, an imitation Italian sports car and an industrial tool. Unfortunately an Acura has never looked like itself, something Ikeda hopes to solve with a design language he calls Keen Edge Dynamic. It's an attempt to give a technological look a strong emotional impact.
It'll take some time for Ikeda's work to surface in production cars, but you have to say the cars like the new TL need to be rescued as soon as possible. The combination of flaccid character lines and a samurai belt buckle might have some currency in the Japanese design world, but there's no one we know who sees the new TL as anything other than a victim of style. We're in the business of driving cars, and we deeply enjoy the mechanical character a car expresses. But sometimes you have to admit that style counts, and especially so in premium devices like an automobile. And once you get past the endless jokes that have been made about the TL's appearance, you have to admit that the car simply doesn't look very good. It's a serious matter, and we worry about the TL's future in the prestige market as a consequence.
The Acura design studio opened in May 2007, a $15 million facility on the campus of American Honda in Torrance, California. We walked the floor, admiring the innovative layout of parallel lines for the development of styling bucks for interior and exterior treatments. Jon Ikeda, the studio manager, explained that the arrangement would foster closer cooperation between designers.
Trained at the Art Center College of Design, Ikeda had been at Honda long enough to have personally met Soichiro Honda, the wild man who turned his fascination for fast cars and adventurous women into a car company that understands the spirit of practical transportation like no other. Ikeda told us that this new design studio would make Acura independent of Honda at last, helping the division finally achieve the promise it showed when it became the first prestige division of any Japanese car company back in 1986. The trouble was, every concept and production car on the floor of the Acura design studio was ugly.
For years Acura has been a kind of me-too car company when it comes to style, chasing various European or Japanese rivals in some kind of twisted game of musical chairs until the music would stop and it would be forced to sit in the ugly chair. An Acura has looked like an Accord with body cladding, a Lexus, a lozenge, an imitation Italian sports car and an industrial tool. Unfortunately an Acura has never looked like itself, something Ikeda hopes to solve with a design language he calls Keen Edge Dynamic. It's an attempt to give a technological look a strong emotional impact.
It'll take some time for Ikeda's work to surface in production cars, but you have to say the cars like the new TL need to be rescued as soon as possible. The combination of flaccid character lines and a samurai belt buckle might have some currency in the Japanese design world, but there's no one we know who sees the new TL as anything other than a victim of style. We're in the business of driving cars, and we deeply enjoy the mechanical character a car expresses. But sometimes you have to admit that style counts, and especially so in premium devices like an automobile. And once you get past the endless jokes that have been made about the TL's appearance, you have to admit that the car simply doesn't look very good. It's a serious matter, and we worry about the TL's future in the prestige market as a consequence.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 11-13-08 at 07:24 AM.
11-13-08, 07:33 AM
#561
Lexus Fanatic
I was going to post the 2nd opinion in another thread b/c it deserves it 
Every review hates the electric steering. They liked it. Odd. Clearly its another good Honda/Acura, good features and build but its just beyond ugly. They dedicated tons of the feature to the styling. The captions under the pics are hilarious. Even in a good economy, no way it hits 70k sales a year.
Every review hates the electric steering. They liked it. Odd. Clearly its another good Honda/Acura, good features and build but its just beyond ugly. They dedicated tons of the feature to the styling. The captions under the pics are hilarious. Even in a good economy, no way it hits 70k sales a year.
Electric steering, of course, has its good and bad points....but the good ones are starting to outweigh the bad. An electric pump, of course, eliminates (or lessens) the need for a belt which can break or wear out. It eliminates the hydraulic plumbing system with leaks, seals, gaskets, fluid level, and flushes to be concerned about. It lowers production cost and complexity. It adds a small (maybe 0.5 MPG) increase in gas mileage because the engine is not working to run the hydraulic pump.
But, up to now, many electric units have been grossly overboosted, with an almost total lack of steering feel.....in my experience, the old Saturn VUE's was the worst. But, that is now being addressed with new electronics and artificial steering feel....the new TL's is significantly better than some other electric systems I've tried.
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