rai

great review as always.

A couple of points, the sales people are NOT as up on these cars as you would think. Many people on the net in the M3 community could teach them a thing or two. For example, they say the DCT is not out yet but it is and several US owners have given reviews on the M3 forum. Now the dealers in question may not have seen one yet but that does not mean they are not out or not offered. BMW has been making the car for ~6 months (sold in Europe since 11/07) and the DCT has only been in production for one month and there is a limited supply. But, the dealers want to sell the cars they have on hand. They want the money now not in 3-4 months.

Also, there is a cloth/leather seat. It's a no-cost option, guess you would call it the standard. The full leather costs $950 but all cars on dealers lots have the full leather seats. The sales people may say it doesn't exist because all the cars they are being sent are loaded to get the price close to $70K. They'd much rather sell them at $70K than at $57K.

Also, you can get the M3 without the i-drive. That's an option. Many people don't like the i-drive like you say. But BMW cleverly put a couple features in the technology package (which has nav/i-drive) those features are a third mode of stability control (MDM stability) and a more sporty throttle setting (the gas is more eager makes the car seem more lively but doesn't change the actual power) most important the technology package is the only way to get comfort access (key-less go) so that's what most people are getting. Other BMWs the comfort acess is a stand alone option but not on the M3.

All the M3s I have seen have the technology package and the sales people may think that all M3s come with i-drive but this is not the case. You can order the M3 without i-drive.

rai

I did order the M3. My order car is much like the one you drove blue with CF roof, I got black-leather with carbon-leather trim. I like the darker (less contrast) interiors. Technology package, Premium audio, sat radio. One difference is I'm getting 18" wheels and M-DCT.

My car will also have the M-DCT (dual clutch tranny). I didn't care very much for the standard tranny. It was OK but as you mention had long throws and I was looking to get a DCT I have loved the idea since my test drive of the GTi, loved the DSG (as it's called by VW). I have not driven the car with DCT but every person that has said it was much better than the old SMGs from last gen M3s especially in the automatic modes.

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I have driven all three cars (with MT) that is the 328i, 335i and M3. I didn't say the 335i is bad and it's really nice and like you said would suite me fine in daily driving. I do like the V8 better (no-lag) and also I love high-rev engines. I have a S2000, have driven the F430 and GT3 both with low-ish TQ but high-ish HP much like the M3 and I do prefer the way you can hang on to the gear longer and hear the 8000+ rpms. Maybe it's not worth it but it's something I value. And (I thought) the V8 similar TQ to the 335i but the response to throttle was more immediate, and the power is more smooth less of the wait-here-it-comes power of the turbo.

I have driven the M3 twice and really was checking out if I wanted the manual tranny which I didn't. It was a bit funny, my second drive was in a sedan with my wife two kids and the sales lady plus me. I say funny, because most times I will be alone but it was different having 5 in the car. The coupe will only hold 2 in the back. But I did get to see that it still has good/great pick-up even when loaded. And it's funny having such a sporty car that can also pinch-hit as a small family car. I could have got the sedan which is cheaper and more practical but I like the lines of the coupe and the CF roof makes it stand out. The sedan would be a great sleeper car.

But the main reason I went M3 (not 335i) is for it's special-ness. Like it's almost in a different class than the 335i. I mean, I picture getting a 3-series and people say that's a nice car, my secratary drives one.

But the M3 is more like having a Vette or 911 or something secial, like the owners are putting up with paying more and more expensive tires etc. but for a reason. Not just status but that is a part of it. They are car guys (and gals) and they want to show it.

It's like ... why do you buy a 911 GT3 (not a 911S)? Why do people buy a Z06 not a base Corvette? Why do people buy a GT500 not a Mustang GT? etc..

Why are people paying so much for these cars? It's not just for A-B transportation and not so much that we are track-hounds. But we feel a bit more special behind the wheel and it does feel more direct and sporty as you said.

Lucky, I have a Legacy for snow. Also, I have lived with the S2000 for 6 years so even tho the M3 is hard-er edge than a 335i, I think it will be limo-like next to the harsh, uncomfortable S2000.

pbm317

M3 is a great car. And fyi, a convertible version is also coming. I think the M3 is great, just hard for myself to spend that much money on the car.

Congrats Rai on your order! I know you've considered a lot of different possible cars.

mmarshall

Thanks.
Sorry if some of the data was not up-to-date.



Thanks for the tips. When I did the review, obviously didn't have the time to sit down and go through all the BMW forums and flash updates. I relied on my own personal knowledge of the car, any additional info they give at the dealerships, BMW's literature/brochure, and the BMW website. The official BMW website leaves much to be desired.....it is impossibly slow to download at times, and, like some other manufacturers, is not always up to date. I myself, despite my strong respect for BMW's steering/chassis enginering, am not a that big of a BMW fan overall and don't have time to get involved much in their forums.


With the supply/demand market that these cars have, it is not surprising that most of the ones in dealer stock (what few there are) are loaded....they obviously bring the most $$$. The dealership I was at, though, appeared honest enough to not put the usual markup price sticker on....the fact that they still had three unsold ones on the lot may (?) show a temporary lull in the usual hot demand, perhaps because of gas prices....this car, obviously, uses premium gas and has poor mileage by today's standards.

mmarshall

I totally agree with you on the dual-clutch option, since, as you indicate, it is now available. For a classic drivers' car, I wasnt impressed with the 6-speed's shift linkage either, and the clutch was overly sensitive at times.
If BMW does as good a job with their version as VW and Audi did with theirs, it will be quite a unit. And it's GOT to be better than the old BMW SMG, which shifted like it was being beat with a sledge hammer.
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Remember what I've said in nother threads about stereotypes? There are secretaries out there driving Corvettes.


That, of course, and the fact that, for the most part, BMW and dealerships charge what the market will bear.....though the ones I saw at shop I was at apparently go for list.


You don't have to sell me on Subarus. You can't beat them for bad-weather daily drivers. My Outback will get through almost anything. And I agree with you on the S2000's ride......I couldn't put up with something like that every day. The M3 is definitely more comfortable than the S2000 over rough roads, primarily because of the longer wheelbase, wider track, and heavier weight, but also because of BMW's superb suspension engineering, particularly if you leave it setting in COMFORT, though the SPORT setting isn't that much harsher, and both seem to give about the same handling response at lower speeds.

Since you mention snow, the best thing you can do with an M3 when the roads are wet or slick is to simply park it and cover it up. Though you do have traction/stability control and ABS, the RWD, high power, and, especially, the almost race-slick tire tread, work strongly against poor-weather traction...BMW has a disclaimer in the literature against trying to use the stock tires in bad weather. You can drive them in light rain, but you have to be very careful....in snow, forget it.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

did the new transmission improve mpg enough to negate the $1300 gas guzzler tax? If so it would effective make the DCT upgrade a $1400 option

mmarshall

Thanks, pbm. The upcoming convertible is another piece of news that wasn't in the literature.

But, in exchange for the nice-weather, top-down fun, don't expect the convertible to have quite as good a ride/handling/steering response combination as the coupe/sedan. Convertibles have what is called cowl flex, or shaking from a lack of body rigidity caused by the lack of a reinforcing rigid roof....fabric-roof models more so than folding hardtop models. The body flex causes a slight loss of chassis and suspension efficiency. Today's convertibles are much better at resisting flex, for several reasons, than the convertibles from several decades go, but some of it is still there. The extra weight of a convertible, from the frame reinforcing underneath, sometimes cuts into acceleration and braking performance too.

mmarshall

A good point.....but, even without sampling one, I would consider the DCT worth the full $2700 if it comes down to that. The standard 6-speed is tiring in heavy traffic, and, overall, is not one of the slicker ones I've driven, like, say, the superb ones in the Miata and S2000.

rai

you would have thought it would, with 7-speed (lower RPMs at HW speed) and with the ability auto-tranny has a setting for 2nds gear starts and low rev shifts, but the M3 DCT has the same EPA mileage 14/20 and the same GG tax.

I kind of wonder if this is true or if BMW or EPA didn't get around to testing it but that doesn't seem likely.

It just seems odd the DCT to have the same EPA rating especially since BMW claimed it to have better fuel economy.

rai

IMO the 6-speed was OK but not great. I mean I drive a S2000 and so not a lot of cars are going to measure up, a lot of owners of the M3 say the MT gets better after break-in.

mmarshall

Mine did improve slightly during the half-hour or so that I had the car....but once you've driven a Honda-designed manual, as you say, few others stack up.

Since you're in MD, I take it you are close enough to D.C. to be in some of this region's awful traffic....the worst in the country outside of L.A. and SoCal. Your decision to order the DCT was probably the right one.

rai

I was looking for this video. It's Chris Harris a British writer in his own personal M3 driving it around the Ring in very slippery conditions.

I know it could be wetter, but that track is very wet and he manages to keep it on the road.

The whole video is worth watching but particuraly at 4:25 you will see it going near sideways but doesn't spin and he says the computer( stability control) is helping a lot.

Also at the end he is able to hit the speed limiter at 160 MPH

At the very end, he says he's more scared than he is excited. Obviously he's a great driver and that helps. But I think the car is not as bad as some are thinking in wet.

I know the tires are more tuned for dry roads, but summer tires do not mean they can't be driven on damp or wet roads but need more caution.

_----->> http://video.google.com/videosearch?...-8&sa=N&tab=wv

kt22cliff

Stock Michelin PS2 or the stock Michelin PS in the case of E46 M3 are great tires in the rain - heavy or light. If you go look at tirerack survey it's been rated top or near the top consistantly in wet(rain) traction and hydroplane resistance. Of course PS or PS2 being summer performance tires, these are not meant to be used in snow/icey road not to mention being cautious below 37 degrees. But you don't have to park M3 in the garage when the roads are covered with snow/ice "IF" you have proper tires. Put proper snow tires on M3, it will get you from A to B in snowy weather without too much fuss and you will get to point B faster than SUV's to boot. My M3 with snows have no problem getting me from NJ to Killington, VT every 4th weekend in the winter Dec thru Mar and it will go up the driveway of the ski house that some AWD SUV with all season tires can't climb. The only problem you will see is if there are large pile of snow on the road taller than say 12". Then the lower portion of your front bumper will act as a snow plow and that will slow you down.

mmarshall

The 35-series Michelin Pilot Sport tires on my test car were almost racing-slick smooth, with only small, widely-spaced tread grooves for water channeling. They were obviously designed for maximum grip on dry, smooth pavement, like race-car tires. BMW has a disclaimer not recommending them on slick roads.

Yes, you could probably drive on wet roads with them, as long as you kept your speed way down, didn't try any aggressive manuvers, and the water on the road wasn't deep. But I'd walk across hot coals before I tried to drive something like that in snow.

rai

I agree, I drive my S2000 year round with a set of winter performance tires and wil ldo so with my M3. I will have the Legacy for when it's snowing and won't drive my M3 as much in bad conditions but won't be scared of the rain or slight snow. Also, they clear the roads fairly well hers so there is rarely more than a couple of inches.

I did consider getting an AWD car like the S5 or RS4 but in the end I went with the RWD (imo more fun) over the safer but less fun of awd.