View Poll Results: Should Lexus start offering 4 cylinder engines in their lineup?
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll
Should Lexus start offering 4 cylinders?
05-05-08, 07:12 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
A fours is generally easier to repair and service, and its one bank cylinder head/valve cover, instead of two like a V6, means an easier fit under the hood and room to work on it. I especially noticed that with the TSX 4-cylinder.
05-05-08, 07:13 PM
#62
In Europe, Lexus could seriously consider the 4-cyl option, after all the German marques all have them...
Still I voted no, assuming that the focus of Lexus remains what it is (majority sales in N America).
Still I voted no, assuming that the focus of Lexus remains what it is (majority sales in N America).
05-05-08, 07:21 PM
#63
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Good point, although the GS and LS hybrids are not very fuel efficient and more for power and lower emissions for eco buyers. I think Lexus should offer a 4 cylinder option and I don't think it is going to hurt the image of the brand. Who here would really put buying a v6/v8 Lexus off their list or lose respect for Lexus if they offered a 4 cylinder option or a smaller 4 cylinder/4 cylinder hybrid vehicle? Modern 4 cylinders are far from the weak buzzy fours in the past. Done right a 4 cylinder can be just a quick, powerful, and smooth as a smaller 6 cylinder while getting better fuel economy. Honda has a great 240hp 4 cylinder and a excellent 200hp 4 cylinder that provides plenty of power and smoothness. For people saying 4 cylinders are not luxury, 6 cylinders are not really considered luxury either by many and are far more prevalent in inexpensive family sedans. Many people laugh at people who got v6 engines in their luxury cars because they feel only a v8 or v12 equals luxury and they cheapend out with choosing the 6 cylinder but who cares what others think.
Mercedes and BMW offered 4 cylinders in America for a long time and only fairly recently stopped selling them and nobody lost respect for those brands while they had four cylinders. They still have more prestige then Lexus or Jaguar who never offered 4 cylinders in America aside from maybe a really old Jaguar model a long time ago offering a 4 cylinder. Mercedes and BMW did not stop selling 4 cylinders in America because it hurt there image either, it was because they were not very good 4 cylinders and were not selling that well because they offered crappy 4 cylinders. If Mercedes and BMW had great reliable 4 cylinders like Honda then they would have sold much more and would still be available in the US. Mercedes and BMW sell 4 cylinders in Europe and they are the most popular engine choice on most of their cars and I don't hear people complaining about a image problem over there. Porsche sold 4 cylinders in certain sports cars up until the mid 90's and they did not lose any respect, they are one of the most highly respected brands sold in the US. Mercedes and BMW also sell 6 cylinder versions of S classes,7 series,6 series, SLs in Europe and other markets which sell very well.
I think a smooth highly fuel efficient 4 cylinder, 4 cylinder hybrid or diesel option for the IS would be welcome and a 4 cylinder hybrid or diesel would also be welcomed in a RX or ES. It is not going to hurt Lexus image other then a few hardcore Lexus enthusiasts who always brag that Lexus does not offer 4 cylinders and that somehow makes them better or more prestigious. With BMW and Mercedes hinting they will start bringing back 4 cylinders and will most likely offer 6 cylinders in their larger sedans and coupes in the future then Lexus would be at a disadvantage not having competing options especially with the way gas prices are going and everyone complaining. With the new fuel mileage standards coming up and high gas prices things are going to be changing in the auto industry and luxury nameplates/cars are not immune to these changes.
I think it is kind of funny seeing some people saying if you buy and own a Lexus or other luxury car you should not be worrying about getting good fuel economy,price of gas, and can afford putting alot of expensive gas in it yet every few days you see all these threads popping up about people complaining about gas prices and what they can do to make their cars more fuel efficient or get better gas mileage. I see these topics on all kinds of luxury car sites I visit so I am pretty sure luxury car buyers do want more fuel efficient cars and don't like spending a bunch of money on gas. If most Lexus owners and luxury car owners can afford and don't mind paying for expensive gas and expensive options then why do so many get the 6 cylinder instead of the v8. Six cylinder versions generally outsell their v8 versions 5 to 1 and often times 7-8 to 1. Getting a fuel efficient 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder option on a lux car makes alot more sense then trying to make a gas guzzling powerful v8 fuel efficient.
I say Lexus should offer a 4 cylinder option in the future on some cars and a hybrid/diesel 4 cylinder options as well, why not. Toyota makes good 4 cylinders and I am sure it would make one suitable for the Lexus brand and much better then the BMW/Merc 4 cylinders that were offered. I think they should also offer a LS version with a 6 cylinder or 6 cylinder hybrid and if they do another SC bring back a 6 cylinder version. Their 6 cylinders have plenty of horsepower for these vehicles and more hp then their v8s a couple years ago.
Mercedes and BMW offered 4 cylinders in America for a long time and only fairly recently stopped selling them and nobody lost respect for those brands while they had four cylinders. They still have more prestige then Lexus or Jaguar who never offered 4 cylinders in America aside from maybe a really old Jaguar model a long time ago offering a 4 cylinder. Mercedes and BMW did not stop selling 4 cylinders in America because it hurt there image either, it was because they were not very good 4 cylinders and were not selling that well because they offered crappy 4 cylinders. If Mercedes and BMW had great reliable 4 cylinders like Honda then they would have sold much more and would still be available in the US. Mercedes and BMW sell 4 cylinders in Europe and they are the most popular engine choice on most of their cars and I don't hear people complaining about a image problem over there. Porsche sold 4 cylinders in certain sports cars up until the mid 90's and they did not lose any respect, they are one of the most highly respected brands sold in the US. Mercedes and BMW also sell 6 cylinder versions of S classes,7 series,6 series, SLs in Europe and other markets which sell very well.
I think a smooth highly fuel efficient 4 cylinder, 4 cylinder hybrid or diesel option for the IS would be welcome and a 4 cylinder hybrid or diesel would also be welcomed in a RX or ES. It is not going to hurt Lexus image other then a few hardcore Lexus enthusiasts who always brag that Lexus does not offer 4 cylinders and that somehow makes them better or more prestigious. With BMW and Mercedes hinting they will start bringing back 4 cylinders and will most likely offer 6 cylinders in their larger sedans and coupes in the future then Lexus would be at a disadvantage not having competing options especially with the way gas prices are going and everyone complaining. With the new fuel mileage standards coming up and high gas prices things are going to be changing in the auto industry and luxury nameplates/cars are not immune to these changes.
I think it is kind of funny seeing some people saying if you buy and own a Lexus or other luxury car you should not be worrying about getting good fuel economy,price of gas, and can afford putting alot of expensive gas in it yet every few days you see all these threads popping up about people complaining about gas prices and what they can do to make their cars more fuel efficient or get better gas mileage. I see these topics on all kinds of luxury car sites I visit so I am pretty sure luxury car buyers do want more fuel efficient cars and don't like spending a bunch of money on gas. If most Lexus owners and luxury car owners can afford and don't mind paying for expensive gas and expensive options then why do so many get the 6 cylinder instead of the v8. Six cylinder versions generally outsell their v8 versions 5 to 1 and often times 7-8 to 1. Getting a fuel efficient 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder option on a lux car makes alot more sense then trying to make a gas guzzling powerful v8 fuel efficient.
I say Lexus should offer a 4 cylinder option in the future on some cars and a hybrid/diesel 4 cylinder options as well, why not. Toyota makes good 4 cylinders and I am sure it would make one suitable for the Lexus brand and much better then the BMW/Merc 4 cylinders that were offered. I think they should also offer a LS version with a 6 cylinder or 6 cylinder hybrid and if they do another SC bring back a 6 cylinder version. Their 6 cylinders have plenty of horsepower for these vehicles and more hp then their v8s a couple years ago.
The IS 200/300 were I-6s, they never used the I-4 from the Altezza.
People can argue/debate all they want, the BOTTOM LINE is 4-cylinder= economy and non luxury or basic sub entry level luxury. PERIOD. They are for fuel efficiency and to help with packaging.
With BMW/Benz/Audi, yes they offer 4 cylinders in Europe but they also offer BEATS of engines, V-8s galore, V-10s and V-12s. Those same cars with the larger engines give a HALO to the entire model range. They don't just offer I-4s and V-6s.
Now with gas climbing will Lexus change and will the Germans bring us more of their Euro I-4 options? That remains to be seen.
05-05-08, 07:55 PM
#66
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Ex. Nissan 240SX, Honda S2000
2. 4 cylinders don't have to be inline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
05-05-08, 07:58 PM
#67
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If you look I clearly stated, there are some damn good I-4 engines out there. No one here is saying I-4 engines are bad.
What the majority are saying, what history is saying, what the current market says is "I-4 is reserved for economy cars mostly and are in a few luxury branded cars, more so in Europe than in America".
This thread is about I-4 in luxury branded cars, not in sports cars.
05-05-08, 08:01 PM
#68
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Are you saying that my Subaru is not a luxury car?
05-05-08, 08:07 PM
#71
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To have some facts laid around, lets look at luxury branded cars with I-4s in the past and present. If anyone wants to add to this list, please do so. America only.
Audi A3-nice 5 door hatch but sells poorly
Audi A4-does offer I-4 with FWD, rarely is this car ever mentioned or compared.
Acura Integra, never was a luxury car, then became
Acura RSX, which was discontinued b/c ACURA said it "cheapens the brand"
Acura TSX, I-4 only, sub entry level luxury
Acura RDX, I-4 turbo, V-8 economy, V-6 speed. An odd choice for an engine in a SUV.
Acura Vigor/2.5 TL-I-5, course, discontinued
BMW 318s, I've driven them, okay for the 1990s, not today. No I-4 BMWs in America. BMW didn't even bring us an I-4 1 series.
Infiniti G20, discontinued not once, but twice. Never was a luxury car, just a rebadged Nissan Primera
Mercedes Benz, C220s, C230s, 4 cylinders, drags to drive, no more 6 cylinder C-classes offered here.
Mercedes Benz C230 3 door hatchback. Sold poorly and pretty much laughed at. No longer imported into America
Volvo C30-A 3 door hatch
Volvo S40-never mentioned, sub entry level luxury
Saab 9-3-I-4 offered nothing over the competition
Saab 9-5-sold poorly with its I-4
Saab 9-3x-Saabaru, nothing luxurious about it, though it was fast like a WRX
I'm sure I missed a few but looking at that list, it is CRYSTAL CLEAR in America, I-4 luxury branded cars are rarely well received. Acura does well b/c they are the "value" brand and have a super loyal following. I for one wish they NEVER discontinued the RSX.
Audi A3-nice 5 door hatch but sells poorly
Audi A4-does offer I-4 with FWD, rarely is this car ever mentioned or compared.
Acura Integra, never was a luxury car, then became
Acura RSX, which was discontinued b/c ACURA said it "cheapens the brand"
Acura TSX, I-4 only, sub entry level luxury
Acura RDX, I-4 turbo, V-8 economy, V-6 speed. An odd choice for an engine in a SUV.
Acura Vigor/2.5 TL-I-5, course, discontinued
BMW 318s, I've driven them, okay for the 1990s, not today. No I-4 BMWs in America. BMW didn't even bring us an I-4 1 series.
Infiniti G20, discontinued not once, but twice. Never was a luxury car, just a rebadged Nissan Primera
Mercedes Benz, C220s, C230s, 4 cylinders, drags to drive, no more 6 cylinder C-classes offered here.
Mercedes Benz C230 3 door hatchback. Sold poorly and pretty much laughed at. No longer imported into America
Volvo C30-A 3 door hatch
Volvo S40-never mentioned, sub entry level luxury
Saab 9-3-I-4 offered nothing over the competition
Saab 9-5-sold poorly with its I-4
Saab 9-3x-Saabaru, nothing luxurious about it, though it was fast like a WRX
I'm sure I missed a few but looking at that list, it is CRYSTAL CLEAR in America, I-4 luxury branded cars are rarely well received. Acura does well b/c they are the "value" brand and have a super loyal following. I for one wish they NEVER discontinued the RSX.
05-05-08, 08:12 PM
#72
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I've told you I am a big fan of the Legacy and always have been. The Legacy has NEVER been included in ANY entry level luxury comparison. NEVER. Sorry. Like the TSX (which is has been compared to) it bridges the gap between say a Camry and an ES. Again, I love the Legacy, especially the current one.
These are not rules I created, they are what has been laid for quite sometime now.
Here are threads I have started on the Legacy as I am a big fan.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
Now again, I am going to politely ask that you take a second to relax b/c your tone here is becoming more and more argumentative and it seems you are taking things personal.
These are not rules I created, they are what has been laid for quite sometime now.
Here are threads I have started on the Legacy as I am a big fan.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=legacy
Now again, I am going to politely ask that you take a second to relax b/c your tone here is becoming more and more argumentative and it seems you are taking things personal.
05-05-08, 08:14 PM
#73
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Oh Im just joshin ya.
.....wait so my Legacy really isn't a luxury car? But it has leather and wood......just like an Acura Legend.....hmmm....
.....wait so my Legacy really isn't a luxury car? But it has leather and wood......just like an Acura Legend.....hmmm....
05-05-08, 08:45 PM
#74
I don't mind 4 cylinder engines at all. As long as they perform well in what they are put in. Putting an I4 in a Lexus GS isn't going to cut it. However, I don't mind a Turbo I4 in the Lexus IS. That IMHO would be a car I'd be very interested in. Putting a I4 in something like a Lexus ES200 or ES240 depending on the displacement also might not be a bad thing. I4's are already putting out over 200 HP easy, torque is not as high as current V6, but is around the rage of the 90s V6 which got the job done.
For something like a Turbo I4 300HP Lexus IS, you could move the engine further back behind the front axle AKA Honda S2000 and have practically a front/mid engine car. That IMHO would be the Lexus I'd like to own.
For something like a Turbo I4 300HP Lexus IS, you could move the engine further back behind the front axle AKA Honda S2000 and have practically a front/mid engine car. That IMHO would be the Lexus I'd like to own.
