About to buy a 2003 GS 300 SD- Opinions appreciated
05-14-08, 02:38 PM
#1
About to buy a 2003 GS 300 SD- Opinions appreciated
Hey all,
I have decided to post this in car chat because I love my car chat group
As many of you all know I have been on the quest for a new car and think that "the one" may have appeared. I have found a 2003 GS 300 Sport Design that's black with the saddle leather (my favorite combo) and it has ML/Nav as well. The car has 63,000 miles on it and has never been wrecked or anything, the owner just did the 60K service and has all service records. The owner is asking $18,000 and KBB says $17,250 so I am expecting to be around that price.
As I understand, the 2nd gen GS was actually the single most reliable car that Lexus has ever built. The main reasons for my purchase decision are the quality and the features and I am in love with the color combination.
Just wondering if anyone here had any thoughts on the car or this purchase? The 2nd gen GS is a car that many people have recommended but I just wanted to ask.
Also, my current Camry has the JBL system and I actually really like the audio in the car. It sounds good. How does the ML system in the old GS compare? I guess this might be a stupid question but the GS is an older car so I wanted to ask.
Thanks guys!
I have decided to post this in car chat because I love my car chat group
As many of you all know I have been on the quest for a new car and think that "the one" may have appeared. I have found a 2003 GS 300 Sport Design that's black with the saddle leather (my favorite combo) and it has ML/Nav as well. The car has 63,000 miles on it and has never been wrecked or anything, the owner just did the 60K service and has all service records. The owner is asking $18,000 and KBB says $17,250 so I am expecting to be around that price.As I understand, the 2nd gen GS was actually the single most reliable car that Lexus has ever built. The main reasons for my purchase decision are the quality and the features and I am in love with the color combination.
Just wondering if anyone here had any thoughts on the car or this purchase? The 2nd gen GS is a car that many people have recommended but I just wanted to ask.
Also, my current Camry has the JBL system and I actually really like the audio in the car. It sounds good. How does the ML system in the old GS compare? I guess this might be a stupid question but the GS is an older car so I wanted to ask.
Thanks guys!
05-14-08, 02:59 PM
#3
Lexus Champion
-The 2GS is a well made car like any Lexus, and should be more reliable and better assembled than your Camry, for sure, but it is FAR from the most reliable Lexus ever made. That honor would go to something like the SC or LS long before it would go to the GS which actually has a lot of common issues - some of them very expensive to fix.
-The ML system will absolutely masacre the JBL system in your Camry. My parents have an 05 Camry with the JBL system and it sounds terrible compared to pretty much any Lux cars I've had so far and the Nak in my GS4 was the best sounding (for the most part) of all the Lux cars I've had so far... so I'll bet ML is even better.
-KBB private party value is a good starting point for negotiations if the condition of the car is accurately rated (and that doesn't usually mean 'excellent' since less than 5% of cars on the road are in excellent condition) but I generally feel like you aren't getting a good deal if you don't get something under that price... 5-10% below KBBPP is a decent deal IMO.
-The ML system will absolutely masacre the JBL system in your Camry. My parents have an 05 Camry with the JBL system and it sounds terrible compared to pretty much any Lux cars I've had so far and the Nak in my GS4 was the best sounding (for the most part) of all the Lux cars I've had so far... so I'll bet ML is even better.
-KBB private party value is a good starting point for negotiations if the condition of the car is accurately rated (and that doesn't usually mean 'excellent' since less than 5% of cars on the road are in excellent condition) but I generally feel like you aren't getting a good deal if you don't get something under that price... 5-10% below KBBPP is a decent deal IMO.
05-14-08, 03:08 PM
#4
-The 2GS is a well made car like any Lexus, and should be more reliable and better assembled than your Camry, for sure, but it is FAR from the most reliable Lexus ever made. That honor would go to something like the SC or LS long before it would go to the GS which actually has a lot of common issues - some of them very expensive to fix.
-The ML system will absolutely masacre the JBL system in your Camry. My parents have an 05 Camry with the JBL system and it sounds terrible compared to pretty much any Lux cars I've had so far and the Nak in my GS4 was the best sounding (for the most part) of all the Lux cars I've had so far... so I'll bet ML is even better.
-KBB private party value is a good starting point for negotiations if the condition of the car is accurately rated (and that doesn't usually mean 'excellent' since less than 5% of cars on the road are in excellent condition) but I generally feel like you aren't getting a good deal if you don't get something under that price... 5-10% below KBBPP is a decent deal IMO.
-The ML system will absolutely masacre the JBL system in your Camry. My parents have an 05 Camry with the JBL system and it sounds terrible compared to pretty much any Lux cars I've had so far and the Nak in my GS4 was the best sounding (for the most part) of all the Lux cars I've had so far... so I'll bet ML is even better.
-KBB private party value is a good starting point for negotiations if the condition of the car is accurately rated (and that doesn't usually mean 'excellent' since less than 5% of cars on the road are in excellent condition) but I generally feel like you aren't getting a good deal if you don't get something under that price... 5-10% below KBBPP is a decent deal IMO.
I am excited to play with the ML system. I thought the JBL system in my Camry was good! haha. Also, like you noted, I am very excited to own a car that is put together like the GS, or a Lexus in general. Considering quality, I think this generation car is one of the highest they ever built, second to only a few LSs.
05-14-08, 04:20 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
Thanks for the quick input man! I have worked at Lexus headquarters and also a dealership and I do think the GS300 is actually the most reliable car they built. I've talked to several people and looked over hundreds of R.O.s and service documents and the only reocurring issue for GS 300s is a strut noise in cold weather. Sure plenty of other problems do and have occured but the only common one is this rattling noise from the struts at tems below about 45F. As it has been explained to me by product engineers and field support techs...the LS tends to pioneer new technology that trickles down the line and the 2nd Gen used mostly Supra parts with Aristo hardware and LS electronics...so all of the tech that went into the car had been on the road for a while before hand. I guess I will have to take a gamble and see.
Also I've not really heard that the Supra shares much with the GS300 other than of course the 3.0 I6 non-turbo motor.
I can confirm that many (but not all) of the electronics are from the LS.
05-14-08, 06:00 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Thanks for the quick input man! I have worked at Lexus headquarters and also a dealership and I do think the GS300 is actually the most reliable car they built. I've talked to several people and looked over hundreds of R.O.s and service documents and the only reocurring issue for GS 300s is a strut noise in cold weather. Sure plenty of other problems do and have occured but the only common one is this rattling noise from the struts at tems below about 45F. As it has been explained to me by product engineers and field support techs...the LS tends to pioneer new technology that trickles down the line and the 2nd Gen used mostly Supra parts with Aristo hardware and LS electronics...so all of the tech that went into the car had been on the road for a while before hand. I guess I will have to take a gamble and see.
I am excited to play with the ML system. I thought the JBL system in my Camry was good! haha. Also, like you noted, I am very excited to own a car that is put together like the GS, or a Lexus in general. Considering quality, I think this generation car is one of the highest they ever built, second to only a few LSs.
I am excited to play with the ML system. I thought the JBL system in my Camry was good! haha. Also, like you noted, I am very excited to own a car that is put together like the GS, or a Lexus in general. Considering quality, I think this generation car is one of the highest they ever built, second to only a few LSs.
I do like the saddle leather and wish I had that option. Is the saddle leather the same type of leather that is normally used just a different color or is it a finer softer leather then standard?
05-15-08, 06:20 AM
#7
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Most of the things UDel mentioned are issues I've experienced as well. However, I'd tend to agree with you that the GS is an extremely reliable car in terms of having no major engine/electrical failures related to drivability (I've never been left stranded in 4 years and nearly 100,000 miles of driving time). Everything I've had experience with are really just annoyances.
The door lock actuators are probably the single most annoying thing, right behind the sunroof and dash rattles. My lower ball joints were replaced about 30k miles ago when the car had about 160,000 miles-- but that doesn't seem typical from what I've read from other members here. I had condensation in one headlight, but new headlights were installed 3 years ago after a wreck and I haven't had one drop of water inside of these.
Congratulations and enjoy the car-- I've been searching for that EXACT car for a long time as well, the saddle leather really makes the car unique.
The door lock actuators are probably the single most annoying thing, right behind the sunroof and dash rattles. My lower ball joints were replaced about 30k miles ago when the car had about 160,000 miles-- but that doesn't seem typical from what I've read from other members here. I had condensation in one headlight, but new headlights were installed 3 years ago after a wreck and I haven't had one drop of water inside of these.
Congratulations and enjoy the car-- I've been searching for that EXACT car for a long time as well, the saddle leather really makes the car unique.
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05-15-08, 11:01 AM
#8
Guest
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That is a great deal on a rare combination. Having owned multiple Lexus, they all have quirks issues. I do know how hard and how much I drive my GS and it would be tough to have a more reliable car, even as I just replaced ball joints which I don't mind, as no car will not need maintenance.
I think the SC 430 is the best built/least problamtic and its built on the 2GS platfrom
I think the SC 430 is the best built/least problamtic and its built on the 2GS platfrom
05-15-08, 01:49 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
That saddle interior is nice.
If my memory serves me, I believe the SD's had slightly stiffer springs than the regular GS300. All other differences were strictly cosmetic.
Have you driven a GS400/430? At a similar price point, I'd take the v8 over the SD options.
If my memory serves me, I believe the SD's had slightly stiffer springs than the regular GS300. All other differences were strictly cosmetic.
Have you driven a GS400/430? At a similar price point, I'd take the v8 over the SD options.
05-15-08, 02:29 PM
#10
I would love a 430 but two things are bringing me back to the 300:
1) Insurance is significantly higher for the 430. To get the 300 my rate increases $169 a year...for the 430 it's more than double.
2) I absolutely love the saddle leather interior.
I know gas is roughly the same between the two, so that wasn't a consideration.
1) Insurance is significantly higher for the 430. To get the 300 my rate increases $169 a year...for the 430 it's more than double.
2) I absolutely love the saddle leather interior.
I know gas is roughly the same between the two, so that wasn't a consideration.
05-18-08, 08:38 AM
#11
Well I went and drove the car yesterday and it didn't exactly go as planned, so I would greatly appreciate some more input from you guys.
1) He is really reluctant to move off his price of $17,999. Turns out he is upside down in his financing and owes $21K on the car still, and thinks he can realistically get $18K for it.
I told him KBB for it was $17,230 and I am not paying any more than that and even then I think its a generous offer because the car definitely has some chips on the front end, a few scratches on the rear bumper, the two big headlights at the front look kind of dull and like they might need to be replaced, and the previous owner repainted the car. He said that the lady who owned it before him had two kids who scratched up the car a bit and she repainted it before she sold it. My problem is that it seems like they did a half azzed job because the "Lexus" and "GS 300" emblems are clearly painted over and the sport design logos on the side are gone. There is a bit of orange peel present on the trunk lid as well. Also the Sport Design trunklid spoiler is gone.
Not dealbreaker stuff, and the paint still does look ok, but I am not even sure this car is worth $17K with all of those things.
2) When I drove the car the brakes felt grabby at low speeds...almost magnetic. Not like "brand new brakes grabby" but just oddly grabby. I got the car up to about 55-60-80mph on the highway and braked and there weren't any vibrations so I think the rotors are fine...is this how GSs feel? It just felt very different from my Camry.
3) Interior of the car is in great condition so no complaints there.
I guess to be honest with his reluctance to move off $18K and the small things that I found wrong I wouldn't even be interested in this car if it wasn't for the saddle leather. I've got to have a GS with it, or I won't buy one at all. I have searched for months for this color combination and this is the only one that I have found. Even then, am not going to pay him an additional $800 over KBB value when it probably isn't worth even that.
I sent him an email stating my position and the work that the car needed to have done but haven't heard back yet. Anyone have any advice or input?
Thanks so much.
1) He is really reluctant to move off his price of $17,999. Turns out he is upside down in his financing and owes $21K on the car still, and thinks he can realistically get $18K for it.
I told him KBB for it was $17,230 and I am not paying any more than that and even then I think its a generous offer because the car definitely has some chips on the front end, a few scratches on the rear bumper, the two big headlights at the front look kind of dull and like they might need to be replaced, and the previous owner repainted the car. He said that the lady who owned it before him had two kids who scratched up the car a bit and she repainted it before she sold it. My problem is that it seems like they did a half azzed job because the "Lexus" and "GS 300" emblems are clearly painted over and the sport design logos on the side are gone. There is a bit of orange peel present on the trunk lid as well. Also the Sport Design trunklid spoiler is gone.
Not dealbreaker stuff, and the paint still does look ok, but I am not even sure this car is worth $17K with all of those things.
2) When I drove the car the brakes felt grabby at low speeds...almost magnetic. Not like "brand new brakes grabby" but just oddly grabby. I got the car up to about 55-60-80mph on the highway and braked and there weren't any vibrations so I think the rotors are fine...is this how GSs feel? It just felt very different from my Camry.
3) Interior of the car is in great condition so no complaints there.
I guess to be honest with his reluctance to move off $18K and the small things that I found wrong I wouldn't even be interested in this car if it wasn't for the saddle leather. I've got to have a GS with it, or I won't buy one at all. I have searched for months for this color combination and this is the only one that I have found. Even then, am not going to pay him an additional $800 over KBB value when it probably isn't worth even that.
I sent him an email stating my position and the work that the car needed to have done but haven't heard back yet. Anyone have any advice or input?
Thanks so much.
05-18-08, 08:42 AM
#12
Lexus Champion
Run... crappy after market paint job and it already has some damage... headlights in bad shape... sounds like this car has not been well taken care of. Price it as fair in KBB Private Party and that's probably the absolute most I'd pay for it.
Sounds like he's delusional. Maybe check back with him in a month and see if he has found somebody that's enough of a sucker to take his price or if he wants to get realistic.
Sounds like he's delusional. Maybe check back with him in a month and see if he has found somebody that's enough of a sucker to take his price or if he wants to get realistic.
05-18-08, 09:08 AM
#13
Thing that baffles me is that he has told me twice that he needs to sell the car by May 27th and if he cannot do it by then he is "going to get aggressive with selling the car".
Ok ummm...I don't think you can realistically pull off selling the car in 8 days when I am the only real offer, and furthermore why would you wait and not take my "aggressive" offer right now?
I think I may have to wait him out and see what happens. I really appreciate your input Threxx!
Ok ummm...I don't think you can realistically pull off selling the car in 8 days when I am the only real offer, and furthermore why would you wait and not take my "aggressive" offer right now?
I think I may have to wait him out and see what happens. I really appreciate your input Threxx!
05-18-08, 04:49 PM
#14
Lexus Champion
Why would the SD spoiler and emblems be missing? Due to the repaint? Yet they didn't remove the "Lexus" and "GS300" emblems before repainting?
Sounds like the car was in an accident, and the parts were sourced from some other GS300. The emblems were probably painted to try to best replicate the SD look with the dark emblems. Weak.
Are you that hypnotized by the saddle interior that you can't spot a problem car?
Sounds like the car was in an accident, and the parts were sourced from some other GS300. The emblems were probably painted to try to best replicate the SD look with the dark emblems. Weak.
Are you that hypnotized by the saddle interior that you can't spot a problem car?
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