LexFather

Dude, DUDE, that hit me today!! This is like the 1996 RL all over again. What morons.

UDel

I guarantee the new TSX will sell much better then the 1996 RL even though many are very dissapointed including me that it is not available with the rumored turbo4 or 6 cylinder right now. There is alot of interest in this car and most buyers will find the power acceptable for their needs, I have yahoo as my opening browser page and the 2009 Acura TSX is often listed as one of the most frequently researched topics/vehicles for the last month and a half. The 96RL fell 15hp and totally changed its persona while the TSX fell only 4 but gained more torque with a better powerband and it gets slightly better gas mileage which is going to be very important these days. It is similiar to the last model although the steering is not as direct and satisfying and it is larger and roomier. If you think about it the new Lexus IS250 dropped 10hp or 15hp from the previous IS300 and is slower yet not too many people complained about that and it still sells pretty well and heavily outsells the much faster but much more expensive IS350. I have yet to see a IS350 on the road but I have seen at least 20 or so IS250's.

I think the new TSX is going to sell pretty well for Acura and give them a nice boost in sales although it won't have the same impact as the original TSX which surprised Honda/Acura by how well it was received and sold. The diesel TSX could possibly be a huge hit for Acura or it could fail, depends on how good it is and if Americans buyers will want a Japanese car with a deisel engine.

I have not sat in or driven the new TSX yet but I am dissapointed that some here say that the quality of the plastics is not as good as the original. It does seem strange that from all the mag/internet reviews I read they don't seem to mention being dissapointed by the quality of the plastics and most reviews said they are pretty impressed by the interior although some don't care for the silver painted plastic which I am also not a big fan of but it is unfortunately becoming more popular in cars these days. I will go to the Acura dealership this week to hopefully compare the two TSX's and see If I can see if the plastics seem like a downgrade.

Nextourer

To continue what mmarshall said,

yeah an obession.. like a sub 8 sec Camry V6 lol.

LexFather

1. Of course the TSX will sell better, its 15 grand less.
2. You can't really compare the 1IS and 2IS b/c the 2IS got 3 many different models, IS 250, IS 250 AWD, IS 350, IS-F. If Lexus had just one model, the IS 300 would have become the IS 350, so your off there. The IS 250 is the entry model.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

It is not really about if the TSX will sell well or not. It is the fact that with the last gen TSX and 04+ TL, and even the 05+ RL Acura was IMHO actually headed back in the right track.Unfortunately, their grill style took a turn downward the last year, then they are repeating the mistakes that stalled them like it did back in 1996. The 06 RL over all was indeed a better built car than the 95 Legend. It just didn't seem like it. Same with this TSX. Surely it is a better over all car, but it just doesn't seem like it at all. The engine HP is a major part of that. The last TSX was a mid to lower 7 second car. The new one is an 8 second car. Who cares how much more torque it has if it is slower.

leedogg

It is completely about whether the TSX sells well or not. Believe it or not, the car companies cater to the masses, not to car enthusiasts primarily interested in HP and performance.

If I wanted a large luxury car with all the features, enough room for the family, good mileage, and a decent enough drive, this might be the right car for me. The is250 clearly shows this market segment exists...except the tsx is larger.

mmarshall

No. I disagree. More often today then not, the auto companies do NOT cater to the masses. If they did, we would not be seeing firmer suspensions, lower profile tires, firmer rides, firmer seats, and more HP/torque all the time.

The tires we are seeing today on entry-level econoboxes, for example, are equivalent to what were on some upmarket sports cars 10-15 years ago.

Many auto companies today, are not swayed as much by the general car-buying public anymore as they are by sport-oriented auto magazine tests. Publications like Road and Track, Car and Driver, etc.....carry enormous influence in car design today.

Take Lexus, for example. One of the chief complaints we hear, day after day, from the majority of Lexus fans is that their cars have become essentially Japanese BMWs, and have lost much of the Lexus ride comfort and interior quality. True, Lexus HAS appealed to those who wanted them to become more BMW-like, but that was far from a majority.

Now...back to the TSX. It is true that the new TSX, mechanically, is not necessarily any "sportier" than the old one, but the new interior, despite its panted-plastic cheapness, IS sportier.....much more so.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Looks at the sales of the 1996 RL compared to the 2nd gen Legend. Then look at who bought it. Very few Legend owners transitioned to the RL. Acura practically gave up on all the Legend owners. I should know, I was one of them and know a lot of them as well.

Same with the TSX. Those that owned one before wont be too keen on buying another. My brother in law has an 05 TSX and I doubt he will buy this new one. For me, the idea is that the new generation supposed to be better than the one it is replacing. This one is not better. It is larger, but not better. Looks at most of the reviews. Interior materials is not better and in fact some feel worse. Handling hasn't improved. Engine hasn't improved and in fact over all performance is worse.

Look what happened to Acura in 1996 with the RL. Brand image went down, car sales went down, they lost their way and struggled to fight back ever since. I thought they were on their way but they are doing the exact same thing the did before. This TSX may indeed sell well, but they are banking on new car buyers not repeat ones and in this tough market, you might as well just get an Infiniti G35S for $5K more.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

And that is a good thing IMHO. Think about it. They may loose some long term customers because the Lexus cars are getting too sporty, but they are gaining a lot of new buyers because of it. In fact, I would bet they gain more new buyers than they loose long time buyers. Lexus continues to sell well and set record sales year after year. Heck, I sound like 1SickLex now Seriously though, I disagree with you that the majority wants a softer Lexus. If that were the fact it would reflect in the sales. The fact is, more people are buying them because they are offering products that more people actually want. I really could care less about those long time old Lexus car buyers. If they don't want to buy a Lexus anymore, too bad. Don't buy one. The rest of us will enjoy the more sporty Lexus offerings that come out in the future. Now, when I'm old and the new guys start telling me the same thing, I'll be okay with that as well. I'm a believer that you have to cater to what the current crop of buyers want. Not what the past buyers wanted.

The thing I agree with you on though is the interior quality. There is no reason why that should suffer like it has been lately.

mmarshall

Part of that is because Acura discarded the easy-to-remember name lineup for their cars (Legend, Vigor, Integra, etc...) for a harder-to-decipher system (RSX, RL, TL, TSX, SLX, etc.....) that many car buyers found confusing. We, of course, know the vehicles we are speaking of because most of us here are car enthusiasts and keep up with the market, but that is not the case with most car-shoppers. Acura really suffered for doing this...people could not remember what it was they were looking at.

Cadillac, to some extent, repeated this mistake with their lineup as well.....and now Lincoln is starting to do it. The traditional Cadillac DeVille and Seville buyers, if you ask them if they know what a Cadillac SRX, XLR, or CTS is, more often than not, will stare at you in silence.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Not only that the car over all just wasn't better. The interior was nice and in fact better, but not overwhelmingly so. You had to sit in it and study it to appreciate what was actually better about it. The engine grew from a 3.2L to a 3.5L and lost 20 HP. Gained torque, but over all performance was lower by far. Handling was softer as well, and you no longer had the different trim options to give you a choice if you wanted the stiffer suspension like in the Legend GS, or the softer standard suspension in the L or LS. There was no new added options that the outgoing Legend didn't already have. Gas mileage didn't get any better. The car did grow in size and interior volume though.

Same like this TSX. What about this TSX makes it better than the last generation? The only thing I can see is that it grew in size.

I was so hoping for good things from the TSX because quite frankly I liked the last one because it had more of that Euro feel to it since it was a Euro market car. That I4 turbo that Acura already has and/or the SH-AWD would have transformed this new TSX into a class leader IMHO. Now, it is just another car in an already crowded class of other good but not outstanding cars.

leedogg

Say or believe what you want. I'm pretty sure MPG is going to play a bigger role than HP for this particular segment.

The popularity of the IS250 is a testiment to people choosing economy and affordability over the HP and performance of the virtually identical 350.

regarding the failure of the RL. I attribute that more to the TL's success. The RL simply didnt offer that much more to justify the upgrade, and the 3rd gen TL is a stunner.

LexFather

No wonder Honda/Acura still sells, loyal customers have very low expectations and seem to be easily pleased.

here is another crappy review

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...N.htm?csp=Cars
Steering leads Acura TSX astray, could be deal-breaker


Acura, Honda's upscale brand, widened and lengthened the TSX, which is loosely based on the European-market Honda Accord (a different, slightly smaller car than the U.S. Accord), making it truly midsize and more comfortable, though still short on rear-seat knee room.


Steering was a big minus in the loaded test car. That could be a deal-breaker for some, especially in a sports sedan where all controls should be excellent. Trying to broaden the car's appeal, Acura has fussed with the steering until it's a bit too boosted at lower speed and has little on-center feel at highway speed, forcing you to make little steering motions constantly to keep the car in its lane.

A few other cars and trucks have that fault, but it's especially hard to take in a car that makes its living on road feel and accurate responses to the driver's inputs.

Overall, the TSX was relentlessly edgy, which seemed to be the result of a misguided attempt at sportiness. In addition to the twitchy steering, the ride was consistently choppy, even on nearly smooth roads. The suspension simply seemed too stiff. On some bumps, the front failed to absorb the entire impact and made the tail do funny things as it sponged the leftover bump shock.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

What happened to the good old days of Honda engineering? Too bad management wont let the engineers have it their way.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

This is really strange from Honda. I mean, they make the best most sporty FWD cars there are. This shouldn't be new to them, yet it seems like they got it wrong. I actually don't even mind the styling of the new TSX. The grill has to go, but I'd put a nice Euro grill on there myself. If the performance and handling kept up and improved on the last gen it would be a winner for me. It doesn't though. Even when Honda was criticized when they gave up the double wishbone front end for the cheaper McPherson strut set up the cars actually performed just as well and better. In this case that doesn't seem to be so.

Why the heck would they boost the steering? Honda already has some of the best feeling steering cars around in the NSX and S2000, yet they screw around with their supposed sporty TSX?

When are people and manufacturers going to get it? Luxury Sport Sedan, or Entry Level Luxury Sport Sedan buyers are not looking for the same type of car a regular luxury car buyer is looking for. Oh, wait, BMW already figure this out and thus the reason why they offer such a wide range of engines and suspension for the same model car. You have your standard non sports package cars for those traditional luxury car buyers, they you have a "Real" Sports Package for those that want more.

Acura was well on their way to being the Japanese BMW back in the late 80s and up to the early 90s. Now, I'm not sure what buyers they are trying to cater to. Infiniti has now taken over as the manufacturer that a BMW enthusiasts as well as a pure luxury enthusiasts both can appreciate.