Mr. Jones

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...427/1148/rss25

Monday, June 2, 2008
Battery flaw slows production of General Motors hybrids
Detroit News Wire Services

General Motors Corp. said a battery flaw is holding back sales of Saturn and Chevrolet gasoline- electric models, Bloomberg News reported today.

Production of the 2008 hybrid Saturn Vue sport-utility vehicle, Saturn Aura sedan and Chevrolet Malibu car is behind schedule because Detroit-based GM is replacing about 9,000 nickel-metal-hydride battery packs in all Vue and Aura gasoline- electric models built last year, spokesman Tom Wilkinson said today. Fluid within the batteries was leaking, he said.

"We wanted to make sure we had our arms around the battery problem before ramping up production of 2008s," Wilkinson said. The battery packs were made by Orion-based Cobasys, a joint venture of Energy Conversion Devices Inc. and a Chevron Corp. unit.

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The problem is a setback for GM's plans of boosting its share of the U.S. hybrid auto market, dominated by Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. Buoyed by rising gasoline prices, sales of hybrids including Toyota's top-selling Prius and Honda's Civic Hybrid rose 45 percent through April to a record 125,087 vehicles, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

bagwell

well I'm glad they're not pulling a stunt like ford did with the F150 + Expedition cruise control issue...deny the problem exists until they are forced into a recall.

spwolf

GM should do us all an favour and quit the hybrid thing before they ruin the name...

darkdream

Hmmm Doesn't sound too good for the American hybrids if such a fundamental issue occurred...

Mr. Jones

well at least the GMT-900 hybrids use Panasonic for their batteries

Bean

iTrader: (1)

They aren't even real hybrids. They use the motor to turn the engine on after idling in traffic; they aren't capable of moving the vehicle at all. Its like having a big starter that turns your engine on and off dynamically.

Threxx

GM didn't make these batteries... same thing could have happened to Toyota just as easily.

Nextourer

The worst thing is that non car nuts will look at this and say "omg all hybrids are unsafe because the battery failed early"

Evitzee

And how good is the Volt going to be as they rush this battery only car into production in a couple of years?? I think I'll pass on being one of the first customers when this turkey-to-be finally hits the market.

TRDFantasy

The key is that it could have happened, but it didn't. Fact is, Toyota spent A LOT of time and money making sure the batteries in their hybrid vehicles were durable and reliable. Since the first Prius was sold more than 10 years ago, the batteries in Toyota hybrids continue to be very reliable.

Also notice how Toyota is not rushing lithium ion batteries to market like GM is trying to. Toyota is going to take its time and make sure they are reliable before releasing them.

Looking at how quickly GM wants to release the Volt, it's very likely they will have battery problems.

Threxx

So it's GM's fault for not testing the batteries from their suppliers enough before putting them into production?

Strange... you were quick to blame the 'outside supplier' on the Tundra 5.7L V8 engine failures and mention no fault for Toyota not testing their motors for proper durability.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...33&postcount=4

I agree with you to an extent though there are certain types of battery failures that just can't be reasonably tested for. It's really just a matter of luck. How else do you think nearly every major laptop manufacturer out there from Dell to Apple to IBM to HP all had to recall their batteries due to safety issues. You don't think any of them tried to test them before buying them from Sony/Sanyo/Panasonic/etc?


Don't treat GM any differently just because you prefer Toyota.

I've read reports that lithium may not end up in the volt for 2010... they may either have to stick with NiMh, or else delay the release. I also will be very surprised if Toyota doesn't have a hybrid of some sort running on LiIon within 1 year or less of the day that the Volt comes out on Lithium. For all we know they may end up beating them to market, and if that happened would you then begin to suspect Toyota of releasing their batteries too early, or is that only something you'd accuse GM of? We're talking too far ahead of time to really make any such condemning statements.

TRDFantasy

Partially it is GM's fault. As for the camshaft problems on the small number of 5.7L V8 engines, it's also partially Toyota's fault for sourcing the camshafts to an outside supplier and not making sure they would be up to standard.

The rest of the blame goes to the battery supplier, just like the rest of the blame would go to the camshaft supplier.

Fact is, you don't know the testing methods of most of the companies mentioned. Maybe they really didn't test lithium ion batteries adequately enough. Li-ion batteries in laptops have been around for *years*, yet we still have not seen them in mass production for hybrids.

My comments I am making are based on public statements from both GM and Toyota. GM has said many times they are fully confident the li-ion batteries will be reliable and ready for the Volt's 2010 release date, and those statements from GM execs ironically contradict some of the statements from GM engineers. Some of GM's battery engineers have stated they want more time to test the batteries, but aren't being given it.

Toyota has stated multiple times they are under no strict timetable for releasing li-ion batteries to market. Toyota has been researching li-ion batteries for hybrid use for years, and still has not yet confirmed when we will see them in its hybrid vehicles. Toyota even has li-ion batteries right now in production vehicle, the Vitz hybrid in Japan although the li-ion batteries simply provide power to a start-stop system, not much else. So even with li-ion in a production vehicle, Toyota is still being patient and taking its time before putting li-ion batteries into widespread use.

GM's public comments show they are committed to rushing li-ion batteries to market as soon as they can. Toyota's public comments show they are being patient and will bring li-ion batteries to market in their full hybrids when they are ready.

spwolf

difference is that Toyota has their own technology for batteries (joint venture with Panasonic that Toyota owns 60% shares of) while GM just buys someone else's tech.

It is the difference between being market leader and follower, and difference between investing billions into technology or buying it off the shelf.

Threxx

If you really believe that GM just goes on a shopping trip, shows up at a 3rd party supplier's doorstep, and says "yeah we'll take a million of those ones a year, let us know when they're ready to ship", then you don't understand the development process at all. I can assure you that GM is every bit as involved with the design and implementation of these batteries as Toyota. The only real difference is that since Toyota owns 60% of Panasonic EV (not all of Panasonic which is a dramatically larger company) they aren't required to negotiate on what should and shouldn't be done as much as they just tell them what to do.

spwolf

uhm, no they are not. GM outsources batteries, Toyota engineers them in house.

It is an big difference.

Difference between company selling million hybrids to day and company selling few hundred per month.

Just the way it is.