carguy101

TRDFantasy

It makes absolutely NO difference who won, or what car was picked last, etc.

It's getting a bit tiring to hear "if _____ Toyota/Lexus model placed first in the comparison, then there wouldn't be so much criticism". Fact is, a lot of us here on CL will criticize the methodology regardless of the results. I'm not complaining about the results, but only the methodology. If C&D ranks a Lexus highly, I still criticize their methodology because it's quite flawed no matter what results they get. Same thing with Edmunds comparison tests. Edmunds has now established a pattern of flawed and totally inconsistent comparisons/reviews, especially when they review the SAME car twice over a period of time and end up with vastly different conclusions/observations on each review/comparison.

Sorry, but real-world driving was NOT a "significant" part of their test loop. Again, it was done on a RACE track. Regardless of any simulated routes or loops they did on the track, a race track is NOT the same as streets and highways that are used daily by people. A race track does not have potholes, manhole covers and very rarely does it have a crumbling surface. Testing on a race track simply is NOT indicative of real-world streets and highways. Further, there was no real traffic on the race track, which again is not indicative of real-world conditions. How good is the refinement of each car in a traffic jam? How quiet is the interior when there is bus or big rig beside you? How good is the car's comfort or refinement when driving on a street riddled with potholes and manhole covers?

The Corolla S is NOT the "sportier version" of the Corolla. That is the XRS, complete with sport-tuned suspension. The Corolla S is simply another trim of the regular Corolla model, just like there is the Civic DX or LX. The Si, XRS, or Mazdaspeed3 have nothing to do with this. Those are sport-tuned variants of the regular models and I did not mention them.

Results that aren't jaded by the industry? They were on a race track wearing helmets. How is that NOT jaded? Please explain to me exactly HOW that is indicative of real-world driving conditions.

Why should Edmunds target a test towards average people; because by Edmunds' own admission, they selected reviewers based on a "cross-section of the American buying public". So Edmunds themselves admits this was NOT just for regular Edmunds readers, but meant to be a comparison test for the regular American car buying public ( the "average joe").

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

Well, a simulated city driving course does not equal to the "real" city driving, not at all. Did they include the gazillion traffic lights? The annoying traffics? The short distance stop and go? The horrible road surface like we have here in LA? The outside noise? Let's keep in mind here that we are talking about the COMPACT SEDANS, people drive these car because they have to, not because they want to...

You are kidding right? Corolla S is just a sportier version of the regular Corolla but it's not on par as the Civic Si and Mazdaspeed 3.

That's where you are mistaken. Edmunds.com is intended to supply auto buying information to the overall general population and Edmunds Inside Line (IL) is the enthusiasts site, those are two different entities but under one corporation call Edmunds. I know this because I am part of Inside Line's user panel, have personally talked to IL editor-in-chief, Scott Oldham (yes, he hates the IS F, but his boss, the chief editor, likes it though...) and I have a friend who works for Edmunds. If this kind of test is done by IL then I would have no argument but the test was clearly done by Edmunds and according to my friend, IL took almost no part of it. That's why I said that a more meaningful test for Edmunds.com readers would be letting the testers drive around metro LA for a day.

carguy101

Basically, any time that a Toyota is tested on a road course, the comparo is flawed.

Also, any time that a Toyota is tested by people who have an interest in cars (so basically every road test), the comparo is flawed.

Yep.

TRDFantasy

Once again, I curiously ask, are you baiting and inciting flaming with your comments?

Why not contribute something more meaningful to the topic? Some people might assume that if you have nothing to contribute, you imply that you agree with the reasoning of why this comparison is so out-of-touch and irrelevant.

Also please note I am explicitly referring to the comparison, specifically the methodology of it. Nowhere have I referred to the results of the comparison.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

Nope.


I think the point is:

Corollas (or most Toyotas in general) are not meant to be pushed in a track course. Of course, when people (usually car enthusiasts) are invited to a track day (alright, so it mostly will be car enthusiasts), almost all will push the car to its limit, making the test unreliable because that is not what is done in everyday driving situations.

The comparison is not flawed. The results speak for themselves.

However, the comparison is unreliable, because the test subjects are skewed. The test subjects are biased towards a certain kind of car -- something the Corolla isn't.

carguy101

Exactly. By this reasoning, all published comparos involving Toyotas are unreliable because:

1) All comparisons do part of the test on a track
2) All comparisons are done by "skewed" reviewers that are interested in cars

carguy101

I confess! I'm an everyday driver!

Although, if you read the consumer reviews, crappy handling wasn't the only reason that the Corolla was placed so low by everyone.

Several of these consumer testers felt that the Corolla was uncomfortable, cheap feeling, noisy, and unstable at high speeds.

ffpowerLN

iTrader: (1)

If it's for the performance oriented cars like the IS/3er/G (I'll even give you GS/5er/M) then you might have a point... But good god, We are talking about econoboxes here!!

whoster

And I find it incredibly stupid that they discounted the Mitsubishi Lancer that showed up because it had a sunroof and a "big fancy" stereo that costs money.


Because those are big-ticket performance upgrades right?

carguy101

Yep, and all Toyota sells are econoboxes, cushy sedans, trucks and SUVs.

So no one better do a comparo that includes a Toyota!

Threxx

Dude... I gave up. I'd recommend you do the same.

Apparently this article was supposed to rate these cars like Consumer Reports does washing machines. As soulless appliances. Because apparently that's how the majority of non inside line Edmunds readers view cars. Little did I know despite me shopping for an econobox to replace my 335i in a bit over a year, that I was wrong for wanting to actually enjoy driving said replacement vehicle.

I stand corrected. I suggest you do the same so that some people here can dismiss this test, sleep well tonight, and continue to feel better about mother Toyota knowing that they defended her superiority with valor all while claiming a lack of bias based on the outcome.