Gojirra99

Posted on Wednesday 11 June 2008

Source

JessePS

that is really good news.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

Interesting.

Will it be a plug in of a current model? Or will it be a completely brand new model?

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

the mpg gain for a li-ion plug in is going to be large. Plug in ensures that the battery is always topped off each morning hence you can use the electric motor more and use even less gas. Li-Ion has deeper charge than NimH and again since you have deeper charge you can use the electric motor more

GS69

Toyota Doubts WideSpread Acceptance of Plug-In Hybrids

The idea that plug-in hybrids aren't all they're cracked up to be isn't a new one. Carnegie Mellon University has even published a study that calls the technology inefficient and cost-prohibitive. Now it looks like Toyota may be in agreement, saying it doesn't expect more than 50,000 plug-in hybrid sales a year - across the entire industry.

That's a tiny amount compared to even the Toyota Prius, which alone sold almost 160,000 copies in 2008. The gloomy outlook on plug-in hybrid sales is based on their high price, long recharge times and durability issues with their battery-dependent systems, Bill Reinert, Toyota's U.S. manager for advanced technology, told the National Academy of Sciences panel in Washington today.

A Bloomberg report also highlights the relationship between fuel prices and interest in hybrids, particularly plug-in hybrids, which can escape the need for fuel altogether under certain circumstances.

General Motors has previously made its disagreement with such assessments of plug-in hybrid technology known, saying that expense alone isn't always a problem for buyers of hybrids. There is ideological motivation behind the purchase, or at least a social motivation.

And beyond that, it will be difficult to achieve the newly announced national fuel efficiency standards' rapid rises without some form of more advanced powertrain technology. Carnegie Mellon's study found that using smaller battery packs that provide just 7-12mi range on electricity would yield the ultimate balance of efficiency and cost.

Toyota is still expected to release its own plug-in hybrid by late 2009 or early 2010 according to the latest reports, however, and testing of the vehicles is already underway.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

gas isnt crazy at the moment, new/used cars can be had for cheap due to the economy. The incentive to purchase a hybrid is not there.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Gas shot up 0.35 here in two weeks

LexFather

Toyota is so far ahead of the curve here its not even funny. I am interested in the new Prius but now I think I shall really wait and see what this is about.

So are yall saying 75MPG or higher is possible, if it has the same setup as the hybrid only Prius?

SLegacy99

I moved home this week from a crowded college town to the Philadelphia area. Traffic everywhere. I don't see myself living here without a hybrid now. I can't believe how much has changed. However, my fervor for a MT will inhibit me from buying any hybrids on the market currently. Although, I would definately be interested in plugging in my hybrid to eek a few more miles out of it. Even it were only like 5.

Threxx

This doesn't really tell us the most important part... range and drive modes.

You can make a Prius a plug in hybrid if you want to... it just doesn't really improve the efficiency of the vehicle that much because the batteries only have enough capacity to get people out of their neighborhood.

The Volt is special because it's driven entirely by electricity the entire time you're driving. It's an electric vehicle with a gasoline backup generator. And it has a 40 mile range without using gasoline.

In order for this car to compete with the Volt it's got to have a significant range on electricity only.

LexFather

The Volt is the one that has everything to prove though. Its unproven and might cost 40k. The Prius is the leader here in the hybrid segment and seems to be willing to also lead the plug in charge.

I want the Volt to succeed but it has A LOT to prove.

LexFather

lol, I'm commenting on Andrews article, not the updated on.

So Toyota is ho-hum on sales, but still pushing forward. We shall see.

Threxx

That seems to be pretty much confirmed at this point. My only hope is that 40k will get you a car with a nice interior, nice driving experience, and all or most features standard. If they try to introduce that car at 40 grand without nav and with cloth seats, etc... it's going to be a hard sell.

Part of me thinks they would have been better off using half the battery packs and only having a 20-22 mile range (I say 22 because with half the packs the weight is reduced greatly and the range would probably increase in the city), and being able to sell the car for thousands less. One reason they might not have is that the government would then give out half the tax credit on the car and that would probably eliminate most of the savings. Just one more example of the government potentially screwing up the free market.

Putting a plug on a car does not mean you're leading the 'plug in charge' to me. If Toyota puts a plug on a Prius and the net result is you can travel a quarter mile further every day than you normally would without using gas... is that really anything close enough to the Volt to put them side by side? Ford might as well stick a plug on a non hybrid Taurus before this Toyota comes out and say they won the plug in race even though they're only charging the car's 12 volt battery. See what I'm saying? Yes technically Toyota will have a plug in car, but to what benefit? Maybe it'll end up increasing the range quite a bit more... but we'll have to see. All I was saying is that the article is missing that VERY vital information.

I agree. It's a type of vehicle that doesn't exist from any manufacturer these days.

GM despite common perception does have a lot of good experience in the hybrid game. Unfortunately they've been present mostly in the commercial market on buses and such with their fairly expensive 2-mode systems. They've trickled that down to the full size truck and SUV market but of course that doesn't get anywhere near the attention that the dedicated hybrid market does, since most people that are buying a vehicle with fuel economy in mind are not buying a truck to begin with.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

don't worry, the govt will ensure the volt is ruined or takes so long to release that it's obsolete by the time it does.

bagwell

the plug-in will have a new Li-Ion battery versus the current Nimh for super duper range/mpg/drive modes, etc...etc.....

I've read about 2G Prius with Lithium Ion conversions that have a 30-35 mile range on electricity power.