98.5 yrs to break even on 600h
06-13-08, 05:55 AM
#32
Lexus Champion
A few things i think need to be pointed out here. The LS600Hl is a little faster than the LS460L. The best o-60 ive seen for the 40 was 5.7 and the 6oohl i ve seen 5.4 o-60. Also if they look at the additional features that are unique the hybrid like LED headlights, AWD, leather dash and additional wood trim it will shrink the difference in cost. Plus they used the market value price not the actual price of the LS460L.
06-13-08, 10:13 AM
#33
A few things i think need to be pointed out here. The LS600Hl is a little faster than the LS460L. The best o-60 ive seen for the 40 was 5.7 and the 6oohl i ve seen 5.4 o-60. Also if they look at the additional features that are unique the hybrid like LED headlights, AWD, leather dash and additional wood trim it will shrink the difference in cost. Plus they used the market value price not the actual price of the LS460L.
83k for avg ls460l sounds about right i say. a lot of them are tagged 80k, some 87k, and we have some 95k version
regarding the batteries for hybrid, while i also share some concern in their reliabilities, but i do have a question for those who put down on hybrid coz' of the battery replacements. are there any study or official numbers on the battery replacement rate on hybrids? prius have been selling for quite a few years, if what you guys say are true, that battery will die like no tomorrow (3 yrs), then i think we should see significant numbers of replacement by now already?
if not, then what are you basing on for your claims?
06-17-08, 11:32 PM
#34
Zing!
Really? Damn.. and here I was trying to save $10,000 cause I have to replace it every 5 years. 
06-18-08, 06:35 AM
#36
Super Moderator
looking at the best numbers seen so far doesn't mean anything, road conditions and other crap can make up the difference. if i really have to compare 0-60, i just go with factory numbers, which i believe are very similar between both. but then comparing 0-60 between 460 and 600 is pretty stupid to begin with
83k for avg ls460l sounds about right i say. a lot of them are tagged 80k, some 87k, and we have some 95k version
regarding the batteries for hybrid, while i also share some concern in their reliabilities, but i do have a question for those who put down on hybrid coz' of the battery replacements. are there any study or official numbers on the battery replacement rate on hybrids? prius have been selling for quite a few years, if what you guys say are true, that battery will die like no tomorrow (3 yrs), then i think we should see significant numbers of replacement by now already?
if not, then what are you basing on for your claims?
83k for avg ls460l sounds about right i say. a lot of them are tagged 80k, some 87k, and we have some 95k version
regarding the batteries for hybrid, while i also share some concern in their reliabilities, but i do have a question for those who put down on hybrid coz' of the battery replacements. are there any study or official numbers on the battery replacement rate on hybrids? prius have been selling for quite a few years, if what you guys say are true, that battery will die like no tomorrow (3 yrs), then i think we should see significant numbers of replacement by now already?
if not, then what are you basing on for your claims?
MYTH 2. Hybrid batteries need to be replaced.
Worries about an expensive replacement of a hybrid car's batteries continue to nag many potential buyers. Those worries are unfounded. By keeping the charge between 40% and 60% -never fully charged and never fully drained-carmakers have greatly extended the longevity of nickel metal hydride batteries.
The standard warranty on hybrid batteries and other components is between 130,000 and 160,000 km(80,000 and 100,000 miles), depending on the manufacturer and your location. But that doesn't mean the batteries will die out at 160,000 km. The U.S. Department of Energy stopped its tests of hybrid batteries-when the capacity remained almost like new-after over 250,000 km (160,000 miles). A taxi driver in Vancouver drove his Toyota Prius over 320,000 km (200,000 miles) in 25 months, and the batteries remained strong.
There's little to no accurate information about the cost for replacing a hybrid battery, because it hasn't been a requirement with today's models.
Worries about an expensive replacement of a hybrid car's batteries continue to nag many potential buyers. Those worries are unfounded. By keeping the charge between 40% and 60% -never fully charged and never fully drained-carmakers have greatly extended the longevity of nickel metal hydride batteries.
The standard warranty on hybrid batteries and other components is between 130,000 and 160,000 km(80,000 and 100,000 miles), depending on the manufacturer and your location. But that doesn't mean the batteries will die out at 160,000 km. The U.S. Department of Energy stopped its tests of hybrid batteries-when the capacity remained almost like new-after over 250,000 km (160,000 miles). A taxi driver in Vancouver drove his Toyota Prius over 320,000 km (200,000 miles) in 25 months, and the batteries remained strong.
There's little to no accurate information about the cost for replacing a hybrid battery, because it hasn't been a requirement with today's models.
06-18-08, 09:51 AM
#37
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usually that battery myths come from consumers that are used to inferior chargers
however, some chargers are quite smart and are able to keep the battery in good health for many years to come
and im sure any hybrid cars would have excellent charging technology to do so
however, some chargers are quite smart and are able to keep the battery in good health for many years to come
and im sure any hybrid cars would have excellent charging technology to do so
06-18-08, 12:52 PM
#39
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First, I think the article that started all of this is about the stupidest thing I have ever seen in relation to the LS600h. I am not saying that people who buy 100K+ cars don't care about mileage but I doubt that very many people buying cars in that class are worried about "payback" of any option. Any car is almost always going to be worth less than you pay for it and the higher the tab, the less financial sense it makes. By that I mean that as far as getting from A to B financially, a Prius is just as functional as a L600h. Hard to believe that people actually got all wound up over the headline number that was only meant for shock value.
Second, I can't say I have watched hybrid battery replacement cycles but I doubt that there is support for either the sky is falling replacement cost concerns or the hybrids never ever need batteries replaced and when they do the maker will do it for nothing. I am still not sure we have had enough of them out there long enough to know. As far as replacement is concerned, that has to be a very serious problem for a hybrid to be needed. My reason for that is that a hybrid still has a petrol engine and in the case of the LS600, it is a pretty healthy gas engine. As the battery ages, it won't hold as much charge for as long as it did new. And that starts literally from day one. You may or may not see it in your mileage depending on the particulars of your commute habits. You will eventually but I doubt very many people are going to park the car because they lose a few mpg. There are stories of cabbies with 250K miles on the Prius with no battery replacement but that is probably the best environment to justify a hybrid and have the battery do well - lots of driving and charging/discharging.
To replace the battery under warranty I have to assume that somebody saw a complete failure of the battery portion which has to be a pretty low percentage. To balance that is the news that the sales of Prius batteries has increased 850% on E Bay but maybe that is just people who want to get a Prius battery pack for some reason. At least you wouldn't have to worry about your laptop running out of charge with a Prius pack in it.
Second, I can't say I have watched hybrid battery replacement cycles but I doubt that there is support for either the sky is falling replacement cost concerns or the hybrids never ever need batteries replaced and when they do the maker will do it for nothing. I am still not sure we have had enough of them out there long enough to know. As far as replacement is concerned, that has to be a very serious problem for a hybrid to be needed. My reason for that is that a hybrid still has a petrol engine and in the case of the LS600, it is a pretty healthy gas engine. As the battery ages, it won't hold as much charge for as long as it did new. And that starts literally from day one. You may or may not see it in your mileage depending on the particulars of your commute habits. You will eventually but I doubt very many people are going to park the car because they lose a few mpg. There are stories of cabbies with 250K miles on the Prius with no battery replacement but that is probably the best environment to justify a hybrid and have the battery do well - lots of driving and charging/discharging.
To replace the battery under warranty I have to assume that somebody saw a complete failure of the battery portion which has to be a pretty low percentage. To balance that is the news that the sales of Prius batteries has increased 850% on E Bay but maybe that is just people who want to get a Prius battery pack for some reason. At least you wouldn't have to worry about your laptop running out of charge with a Prius pack in it.
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