PetesLS400

Thats the big misconception. Diesel LOOKS dirty but the fumes are MUCH cleaner and safer for the environment than gasoline.


Diesel is not big here because there has been no need for it, gas has been cheap enough where Americans didnt care. Gas has been expensive in Europe for 20+ years already so they made cars that are more efficient.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

'was' being a key word, but it wasn't just about diesels... for all their bluster, the Europeans weren't on board with basic pollution controls like cat converters until not too long ago and there's still tons of REALLY polluting and stinky GASOLINE cars on the road there. One reason they weren't on board with cat converters was because they were protecting their own auto industry, plus the cars were so gutless to begin with that adding cat(s) would pretty much kill the power.

But all that has improved a lot, and Europe is less stinky. Now if they just appreciated showering and antiperspirant more...

DustinV

Don't kid yourself, buddy.

That's what certain circles want you to believe. The fact of the matter is that your average ULEV SUV is also very dirty but just because it's A) powered by a gasoline engine and B) has the ULEV certificate our perception informs us that these vehicles are "clean". They're not if you think about it deeply.

Modern diesels are in fact clean and getting cleaner as technology progresses. But not only the technology is important here but the quality of diesel fuel. Let's face it, the US has poor quality diesel fuel as a whole and this means during the combustion process the dirty chemical elements are released. Although the situation is improving I believe (otherwise MB couldn't sell their high-tech E320 CDI / E320 Bluetec there), it will still be some time before all of the US has cleaner diesel fuel suitable for modern high-tech diesel. We also need more fill-up stations offering diesel fuel.

As an American working in Germany (and driving a diesel-powered car) I can attest to some of the great diesels that consumers have the choice of driving here. Almost every car in every niche has a diesel engine option. Even sports cars are now becoming popular with an oil-burner upfront, especially in French cars.

Even the Japanese have some great diesels here albeit a few brands only. Honda has a superb diesel engine in the Accord and Subaru just joined the party with an innovative and clean boxer-diesel. Sadly, Toyota doesn't have very good diesel engines here and some of their cars lack a particulate filter - which is standard on almost all German, French or Italian diesel cars.

Well, as you can see from my signature I drive the new C class C200 CDI (company car) and I am happy with the performance and fuel economy. This vehicle is an entry-level model but the large torque reserves and efficient 5-speed automatic work well to propel the car in an agile and quick fashion. In all honesty, I'm happy with the car despite me having grown up with big and powerful engines back home in Maryland. Living here for a year has totally changed my outlook on things and appreciate this as I think it makes me a better car enthusiast.

ZeroState

What you all might also want to consider is the impact of Diesel if it DID take off in the US market. Most commercial and manufacturing companies around the world use Diesel as their main source of fuel. It's already pretty expensive here in the US. Many years ago, the EU made Diesel cheaper than Gas (by taxing gas more than diesel I think), and Diesel car sales soared. That may not be the case today, right now, as of this moment, but it is true that a higher percentage of cars in Europe are Diesel compared to the US right now.

BUT. If the US tried going after a diesel market here, the strained Diesel supply would get further strained, most likely shooting the prices higher than current levels. We can't simply amp up the amount of Diesel refineries produce either. Most refineries in the US are set up for catalytic cracking, which turns each barrel of crude into about 50% gasoline, 15% Diesel, and the rest into other petrol products (asphalt, home heating oil, jet fuel, etc).

But in Europe, most refineries are set up for Hydrocracking, which yields 25% gasoline and 25% diesel, and the rest into other products. So if the US pursued Diesel cars as the cure all, it would constrain current supplies massively unless something is done about the supply. The problem with doing something about the current supply, is that any course of action will take years to accomplish. You know, converting refineries or building new ones. But a new refinery hasn't been built in the US since 1979...

It seems to me that although Mercedes currently downplays the refining capacity issue, it will turn out the be an issue should the popularity of diesel cars take off. Is the fix in? Is big oil making us buy gasoline? Maybe. But there's something about the way refineries are set up in the US that correlates with Diesel capacity being squeezed here. I sourced this information from an Op-Ed piece in Car and Driver magazine, April 2008 issue. Still, I think a main reason why diesel is not popular now is because of how it was back then: stinky, rattly, and hard to find refueling stations. Although diesels of today are light years ahead of the way back then, fitted with NOx reducing urea injection catalysts, high pressure fuel delivery, self-cleaning particulate traps, etc. But remember, that advancement costs money. More than current gasoline equipped cars too. Diesel (depending on the composition), burns cleaner in some aspects than gasoline, but the NOx emissions varies with the sulfur content, as does the particulate problems, which is still higher than gasoline. I wouldn't say it's cleaner than gasoline though, I would just say it's still dirty, but in a different way. Current technology has all but eliminated these disadvantages for Diesels, and at the same time some diesel advancements (direct injection) have improved gasoline engines. I personally would take diesel over gasoline, all other things being equal, but they're not, so gasoline it is. That's just my take on things though..

mmarshall

That's already happened, Dustin. The EPA, a couple of years ago, has already mandated the use of Euro-style, low-sulfur diesel fuel here nationwide. That's one reason why it is expensive, even more so than 93-octane premium gas. It is expensive to produce, and for regular diesel-powered cars (large trucks and diesel locomotives are another matter) you run into economies of scale because there is still a limited market for it here in the U.S.

What we need is more diesel cars sold at retail so that demand for the low-sulfur fuel will go up, supply will increase, and prices will come down. Americans have traditionally had a dislike of auto diesels, based on outmoded experience with the unreliable, sluggish, noisy, dirty, hard-to-start diesels of 20-30 years ago, some of which were converted gas engines and a total disaster. It's time to toss that old image out in the trash where it belongs....we live in a world of totally different diesels and fuel now.

And, as I understand it, M-B does indeed have plans to being the Bluetec diesels over here, starting with the E models.