Overclocker

Porsche says its twin-clutch-equipped 2009 911 Carrera S lapped the Nürburgring Nordschleife in 7:50.


A six-speed manual-equipped 2009 911 ran 8 seconds slower.

Source: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=127326

Jujharoo

What size engine/HP do these cars have?

UberNoob

what this means to me?

nothing, because i wont be driving on the nurburgring on a daily basis

Lsportline43

Why are they comparing a FI car to a N/A car? Wouldn't it make more sense to compare the 2009 GT-R to the 2009 911 Turbo or 911 GT2?

vcheng

Maybe because the N/A 911 and the F/I GT-R are close in on-the-road price?

TRDFantasy

Considering these are "regular" 911 models, those are some pretty great times.

Just imagine what a 911 Turbo will be able to achieve on the 'Ring with a power bump and the new twin-clutch tranny.

darkdream

the base 911 makes 345 hp, the s model makes 374 hp

Lsportline43

Good point, but still I don't think it is a valid comparison. The car with more horsepower and torque (with both cars being similar in weight) will obviously win. It's just stating the obvious by making such a comment as "Faster 'round the 'Ring than the previous 911, but still smoked by the GT-R."

The 911 have always had a high starting price. It's the price you pay for driving a 911. They have great reputations in terms of overall engineering, reliablity/durability, resale value, etc. Also the two cars, imo, appeal to different groups. Obviously the import fanatic will love the GT-R and will probably mod it. While there's the older laid back driver that buys the 911 Carrera as a weekend car or even as a daily driver. No modding, but just enjoying the overall experience that can only be had with a 911.

This reminds of a similar situation that I saw on the show "AutoCar." (A UK Car Review Show) They had the 997 GT2 against the Corvette C6 Z06. Obviously the GT2 won over the Z06. Both a similar in weight, but the numbers show it all. The 997 GT2 has 530hp/505ft/lbs. torque and the Corvette C6 Z06 has 505hp/470ft/lbs. torque. As you see the numbers show it all. Not that I didn't enjoy watching how close the two cars were in terms of performance, but it wasn't shocking to see the GT2 pull away from the Z06.

vcheng

I agree with you here. Even with the price difference, if I had the money, I would take the 911 S, with an old-fashioned three pedal stick shift, no doubt. Now if the GT-R had a manual, I would think about it.

My point is that driving a sports car is all about driver engagement, and thus factors other than just lap times and horsepower come into play, for me at least.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Have you driven a 500HP car with a stick? I've only driven a 400+HP car with a stick, and it actually isn't that great. You go through the gears SO FAST you're just constantly shifting, plus on hard acceleration the 'neck snap' is hard to avoid unless you really slip the clutch.

Now in my Miata, the 6 speed stick is a blast.

vcheng

As a matter of fact: Yes, to both. I have a 400-hp LS2 Corvette with a six speed manual, and I have driven the 505-hp Z06 version that comes only with a stick shift as well.

I agree that your point about banging through the gears very fast is valid for a quarter mile run, and for an impromptu redlight to red light grand prix, but on a road course, or even a spirited drive across a mountain road, I'd still enjoy the stick more.

The Miata of course is a delightfully balanced car, and perhaps would any of these more powerful cars a run for the money on a very tight course where flickability would be more important.

Threxx

Smoked by the GT-R, Z06, and ZR1 and with the heavy lux sedan CTS-V nipping right at its heels... not that impressive considering the price and size/design of the car.

speedflex

Interestingly, the Ferrari 430 Scuderia also lacks a stick in favor of a trick-clutch next-gen tranny.

Pearlpower

iTrader: (2)

I'll take the Porsche over that thing that looks like an old Celica brought back to life, thank you.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

its funny when people complain about some car not having manual when most likely they cant even drive a high powered car effectively to give a damn about wanting said car in manual in the first place. I know I cant drive a high powered car in stick.